Quick introduction and QuadraTrac question.

[cpittman428]

So I've been creeping around on here for about 8-10 months now... Pretty much ever since I was in a situation where I had to sell my 84 Scrambler due to moving from an area with no emissions to an area with emissions and not being able to test because of the engine swap (that's a whole other story). Also my wife and I had our first born and that meant a four door would suit me better than the 2 door half cab Scrambler. Anyways I was looking for a Wagoneer/4 door full size Cherokee or an XJ. Almost got a sweet Waggy on a trade with the Scrambler but it got sold out from under me before I had a chance to get them the money/Scrambler. So I ended up with an mildly built 99 XJ.... I'm not quite satisfied. I need back in something a little more classic! So I'm back in the market for a Wagoneer or 4 door Cherokee and looking to sell/trade my XJ.
I've been doing plenty of research and asked for some advice over on the CJ8 forum when I frequented it much more often. I have acquired a good bit of info on what to look for/look out for and felt like I knew what direction I was heading until I found a 79 4 door Cherokee with the QuadraTrac that I'm interested in. I've attempted to make contact and am waiting for the next step in that conversation.
So in the mean time here is the question(s). What kind of advice/options are there when it comes to QuadraTrac? I've kind of been told to steer clear of this transfer case so I was sort of hoping to avoid this topic. Just in case this purchase happens or another possibility comes up with QuadraTrac, lend me some info the subject. I know to look for one with a low range option and I've heard of a part-time conversion (don't know that much about that still though)... but beyond that what else should I know? Swap options for a better/less finicky TC? I should note that I'm not a master mechanic with a shop or lots of specialty/HD tools at my everyday disposal. I can turn a wrench and work my way through minor tasks but if it comes to rebuilds and swaps or the more complicated jobs I'm gonna have to outsource to friends or local shops.
Any QuadraTrac info would be helpful as it seems to be one of the FSJ topics I'm not as overly knowledgeable about (was kinda looking for an 83-86ish Jeep but I'm not super picky as long as it's running well and passes emissions).
Thanks for any help! I hope to have more questions once I finally get a FSJ!
Chase


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[KJ Ryu]

I've got two QTs. One that's been ratcheting when trying to accelerate vigorously (usually means stretched chain, from what I've learned here), for at least 2 years but, it's still strong enough to pull a 2-place sled trailer up a fairly steep switchback mountain road... as long as I don't push it. The rebuilt one has never had an issue. Definitely NOT finicky! Just learn, and maintain, and they are the best TC on the planet in snow/ice. period. Here's where to learn: http://www.jubileejeeps.org/quadratrac/index.htm

Make sure it's a good case but, if it checks out, they are awesome!

[Tatsadasayago]

The Borg Warner QuadraTrac is one of the best offroad transfer cases ever designed but...
Ignorance and neglect has given the TC a bad rep.
Now that Ramsey is providing new high quality chains and Novak is offering new cone clutches, the old 13xx will see another 30+ years of wheeling goodness.
In all honesty, a part-time kit actually ruins the QT since it eliminates the differential feature. Sadly, this was pretty much the only option when a QT went bad as the kits removed the clutches, but for many years it was the only way to keep them alive.

[redwoodgrown]

Thank you tatsadasaygo for the info on QT I had believed they were not any good chains out there and was going to a Dana 20


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[fulsizjeep]

I would personally recommend an 80 or newer though I am pretty familiar with the inner workings of the QT. The chain is one thing. Good ones are available. We have been running a Ramsay chain for a few years in a 77 Wagoneer and no complaints. It was a test unit from BJs Offroad before they started selling them. For the longest lifespan, you should change the fluid every 10 to 12K or just plan to do it annually. If you get a QT, plan on tearing it down and cleaning out the crud that builds up inside the differential. That junk that builds up in there is hard on the cones and cone washers. It wouldn't hurt to pick up a spare or two that will pass the torque test noted in the 77 QT TSM. The part time kit has it's own weaknesses. If you plan to do even light wheeling with over size tires, the 16% OD PT kit pretty much sucks.

http://jubileejeeps.org/quadratrac/77jeep_qt_tsm.pdf

[tgreese]

... For the longest lifespan, you should change the fluid every 10 to 12K or just plan to do it annually. If you get a QT, plan on tearing it down and cleaning out the crud that builds up inside the differential. That junk that builds up in there is hard on the cones and cone washers. ...

Interesting. That's the first I've heard of that issue.

I would not pass up a clean BW QT-equipped Wagoneer or Cherokee if I came across one. The price should be right, because the BW QT is widely considered a liability, for reasons right and wrong.

My 2c - If I bought one of these, I would buy a Ramsey chain whether it measured needing it or not. I would not necessarily install it immediately, but I would want to have that option. Specialty parts like this come and go from the aftermarket, and there's no guarantee that this chain will be available for the next decade, much less the next three decades. Same for the Novak cone clutches. It's great that BJ's and Novak are supporting these cars, but no business lasts forever ... and the business environment changes over time.

I would also not buy one of these cars if I meant to drive it a lot. The major problem (but not the only problem) with the BW QT design is that the chain drives the front and rear wheels all the time. This puts a big load on the chain, and they wear out after say 60-100 thousand miles. Fine for a hobby car that you drive a few thousand miles a year, but not great for your daily long commute.

[fulsizjeep]

I would not count on more than 50k miles per chain, 30k on the cheap ones. Just changing the fluid does not totally freshen the diff. The oiling channels often build up graphite like sludge that limits oil flow. Most of the QTs I have opened for parts looked like the fluid had never been changed.

[cpittman428]

Thanks for the advice so far. Whenever I get a Wagoneer/FSJ Cherokee it will have to be a daily driver and hopefully good enough for an hour or two trip into the mountains from time to time. Eventually I'd like to be running 31-33 inch tires with mild lift but that's about all for suspension/tire mods.
I know there are tons of variables to go into this question/answer, but what is the difference as far as fuel economy with the QT versus later models with the part time Selec-Trac? Right now I've got a less than 10 minute commute, but that may change and I do occasionally make trips up to 1.5-2 hours. Depending on what happens here in the coming weeks/months I may start a new "FSJ Search/Info/Question" thread and transition out of this one.


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[Tatsadasayago]

The major differences between the BW 13xx and the later Qudratrac II is the the latter was drivers side drop and it was a direct drive case as opposed to chain drive all the way. It too had an optional viscous coupling TC differential, but seems to have survived better.

[cpittman428]

Out of curiosity/ignorance what are the transfer case swap options? Is there any adapters to swap in a different transfer case? Or what would it take to get a different transfer case in it?


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[REDONE]

If it comes with a B 13xx don't bother thinking about swapping it, just get a different Jeep if you don't want the QT. Everything about it will only fit the QT; from the transmission output shaft all the way to the rear axle differential being offset to the passenger side. Heck, you would even need a different gas tank if you swapped out the QT.

[cpittman428]

If it comes with a B 13xx don't bother thinking about swapping it, just get a different Jeep if you don't want the QT. Everything about it will only fit the QT; from the transmission output shaft all the way to the rear axle differential being offset to the passenger side. Heck, you would even need a different gas tank if you swapped out the QT.

Yikes.... it's a 79 Cherokee Chief if that would narrow down what would be in it.


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[REDONE]

90% chance it's a QT, 10% chance it's a Dana 20. If it's automatic, it's a QT. It was the 1980 model year that it changed to the Dodge transmission and New Process transfer cases.

Like many here, I am a fan of the QT. I hoard them.

[cpittman428]

So... decided not to go with that 79 Cherokee Chief. Looks like it sold anyways. Now I found an '82 Wagoneer that I've inquired about. The owner says it's a 6CYL with a shifter on the drivers side of the hump that says 4 hi, 4hi lock, 4low. I'm guessing it's a NP 229 from what I have read.... again wasn't really looking for a full time but how strong/reliable/swappable is this option. So far the Jeep looks like a good deal/price based on pictures and description. Thanks again for your knowledge on this topic... I don't personally know any classic Jeep junkies.


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[fulsizjeep]

That would be an NP219. 4hi is open diff, 4hi lock locks the diff. These are great full time 4wd transfer case that Jeep also called QuadraTrac. Totally different beast from the Borg Warner version. It was pretty standard 80-82. The NP229 started in 83.

[tgreese]

So... decided not to go with that 79 Cherokee Chief. Looks like it sold anyways. Now I found an '82 Wagoneer that I've inquired about. The owner says it's a 6CYL ...

Make sure you can live with the performance of a six in one of these Wagons. The legacy automatics are rather inefficient, and the 258 does not have a lot of extra poop to spare. So performance will be ... unexciting. That said, the 4.0L six used in the XJ Cherokee is a pretty easy swap for the 258, and would improve highway performance a lot. There are a lot of differences between the V8 and six cars... if you were imagining swapping to a V8 someday, better to look for one that has a V8 now.

[cpittman428]

That Jeep is gone as well. Back on the hunt.


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