89 GW new to the group

Area for General FSJ related chat.

Topic author
mhubbard
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:43 am

Re: 89 GW new to the group

Post by mhubbard »

Nikkormat wrote:
mhubbard wrote:
Nikkormat wrote:Don't waste time with the "RV Cam". Mine sucks, makes less power than the flat old stock white stripe cam that was in my 401.

Order this Summit K8600: https://m.summitracing.com/parts/sum

And THIS Cloyes True Roller timing set: https://m.summitracing.com/parts/clo-9-1118

Don't let the low price of the cam scare you. The summit cam is made by CWC TEXTRON up in Michigan. An OE supplier of cams to American Motors. The Cloyes timing set is also US made! And the oiling holes are in the correct place on both the cam and timing set!
Nikkormat, will that Summit K8600 work in mine? Summit just states that this cam applies to the 70-78 AMC 360. Mine is an 89. Why doesn't Summit state that it will apply to later 360s?
I have no clue why some manufacturers think the cams only work to 1978. All they did in 1979 is add an additional freeze plug and change the timing marks on the timing cover.

Yes, it will work fine.
Hey Nikkormat, the CWC Textron cam and Cloyes timing set are on there way! Cannot thank you enough for the advice! Thanks, Mike

Topic author
mhubbard
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:43 am

Re: 89 GW new to the group

Post by mhubbard »

** Their **

Ordering shiny new parts makes me spell incorrectly :)

Topic author
mhubbard
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:43 am

Re: 89 GW new to the group

Post by mhubbard »

Nikkormat wrote:Don't waste time with the "RV Cam". Mine sucks, makes less power than the flat old stock white stripe cam that was in my 401.

Order this Summit K8600: https://m.summitracing.com/parts/sum

And THIS Cloyes True Roller timing set: https://m.summitracing.com/parts/clo-9-1118

Don't let the low price of the cam scare you. The summit cam is made by CWC TEXTRON up in Michigan. An OE supplier of cams to American Motors. The Cloyes timing set is also US made! And the oiling holes are in the correct place on both the cam and timing set!

Quick question: this Textron cam is running in my Jeep now; however, I'm wondering how this new cam might affect my manifold vacuum. My buddy came over with his vac gauge and measured a steady 15-16.... but he was thinking it would be higher. Could the new cam possibly bring the manifold vacuum level down?

Thanks,
Mike
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REDONE
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Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:48 pm
Location: Lakewood and Bailey, CO

Re: 89 GW new to the group

Post by REDONE »

Yep. To put it simply, high performance cams have more overlap, meaning the intake and exhaust valves are open at the same time. At idle, the piston sucking on its down stroke sucks exhaust back in as well as fresh fuel/air from the intake plenum, so it doesn't suck as much fresh air/fuel, resulting in lower manifold vacuum. The payoff is at higher rpm, where the velocity of the exhaust leaving actually sucks MORE fresh air/fuel than the piston would suck in on it's own.
79 J-10 (Honcho Mucho) KE0LSU
304/Performance Fuel Injection TBI/MTA1/SP2P/Magnum rockers
T18/D20/D44s&4.10s/33" Mud Claws
Grizzly Locker Rear
4" front spring drop, 5" rear shackle flip
Chevy style HEI (ECM controlled)
Dolphin "Shark" gauges in a fancy homemade oak bezel
3/4 resto, rotting faster than I've been fixing it.

Topic author
mhubbard
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:43 am

Re: 89 GW new to the group

Post by mhubbard »

perfect explanation! Thanks!

Nikkormat
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Location: Salt Lake City

Re: 89 GW new to the group

Post by Nikkormat »

He said it better than I could say!

I'm getting 15-16 with the edelbrock cam in my other 401 so I think 15-16 is OK with a cam.
Gabe, "reformed" Jeep hoarder.

Topic author
mhubbard
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:43 am

Re: 89 GW new to the group

Post by mhubbard »

This is good-to-know! Thanks, fellas

weeegoneeer
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Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:34 am

Re: 89 GW new to the group

Post by weeegoneeer »

I got the BJ's water pump and it worked awesome.

Also got a performer grind cam, though not performer and the rebuild shop installed it. Honestly can't tell if it made a difference since my engine before that was anemic.

As @letank said - whatever components you decide to use, make sure they pay attention to casting fluff, oil circulation in general. I know as a tradesman myself how offensive outside info can be, because it means I don't have command of my trade. But, if you can buy this and get them to read it, your rebuild should go out awesome. http://theamcforum.com/forum/bj-builds- ... 55271.html

I have a PDF of that book but really want this dude to see the money. It's amazing and a great resource for all of us.

I do think that with FSJs "if it ain't broke don't fix it" is some good advice to heed. In many cases, if you replace something that's working with something newer, you're actually getting something worse. I drive around with a powermaster alternator in case my 180,000 mile alt decides to give up the ghost. Chances are it will outlive the engine. Junkyard ignition modules also. New doesn't = good.

Things I would do if money were no option:
- I would go HEI of some sort. Whether the MSD pro-billet or homegrown. If you go homegrown though, you have the option of an adjustable vac canister without installing a Mr. Gasket can. If I knew then what I do know now... IFSJA has a great write up on that by Ristow.
- Lose the air pump, keep the cat, plug the holes in your manifolds. Make sure your cat is a newer model that doesn't need air injection to work properly (no air injection port). Airpump costs 5hp. BJ's sells a sweet stainless exhaust setup I bought.
- I run the K&N open element but technically what you really want to do is get another air cleaner from a FSJ and run dual snorkels. You can look around forums for this mod. You actually have another air port behind your washer / coolant bottle. Though, technically, I've personally only noticed an increase in throttle response from an open element. But we are talking theory here. If you want to run an open element, I've done so in 110 degree weather. Think any lack of response was from the high operation temp of my motor.

You have carb & intake covered it looks like.

I don't run an EGR but see no reason not to. If your intake allows it, keep it on, it's only a good thing and under high-load conditions will not open. It only cools your combustion temps at light load, which is a bonus.

I'm able to pass emissions in a state that looks only to see if you have a cat installed. And am running no EGR, no air pump, none of the other stuff.

However, a bunch of that stuff like the temp controlled vacuum switches to adjust vac advance or heat risers into the stock air cleaner actually make your truck easier to drive. I know that when I start up my truck and immediately move the ass end out of the garage to not asphyxiate my family, I need to stab the gas twice or it'll die. I know that I then need to sit there with my ass-end out of the garage for a minute or so until my intake heats up, then I'm on my way. If it weren't just me driving my truck I would have kept all the features that allowed them to market this truck to the blue blood set.

~j
1984 GW

Topic author
mhubbard
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:43 am

Re: 89 GW new to the group

Post by mhubbard »

With this cam, what would you say the recommended curb idle should be? The sticker on the radiator support states 600RPM, but my car HATES that idle speed.
User avatar

REDONE
Posts: 2678
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:48 pm
Location: Lakewood and Bailey, CO

Re: 89 GW new to the group

Post by REDONE »

That's a thing you'll have to find for yourself unfortunately. There are so many variables that can make a tiny difference that what works for someone else with that cam might not work for you. The stock 600rpm is a good starting point, but you probably need to bump it up from there. On the plus side, you don't need to make every adjustment into a big to-do with vac gauges and timing lights, and plugging this and pinching that. All you need to do is make small adjustments to the idle stop screw until it idles like you want it to. The K8600 isn't a flame-throwing circle track or 1/4 mile cam, so it shouldn't take too much to get it smooth at idle. Don't worry about a specific RPM number, just the lowest idle that doesn't die and has snappy response from a stop.
79 J-10 (Honcho Mucho) KE0LSU
304/Performance Fuel Injection TBI/MTA1/SP2P/Magnum rockers
T18/D20/D44s&4.10s/33" Mud Claws
Grizzly Locker Rear
4" front spring drop, 5" rear shackle flip
Chevy style HEI (ECM controlled)
Dolphin "Shark" gauges in a fancy homemade oak bezel
3/4 resto, rotting faster than I've been fixing it.
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az chip
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:59 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: 89 GW new to the group

Post by az chip »

This vehicle does not exist. We have not seen one picture of it!
'81 Cherokee Chief 81 WT Chief/MSD 6/Holley Sniper/ Rusty 4" Spring lift/ Bulltear oil adapter/K&P Engineering Oil Filter/ NP 208/ Serehill Light Harness/KC LED Headlights/ Evil Twin Fab Roof Rack and sliders/ Ross mirror mounts.

Topic author
mhubbard
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:43 am

Re: 89 GW new to the group

Post by mhubbard »

Here's another question - pertaining to the new cam at idle...
At idle, it seems to have a little "miss"; however, at anything above idle, it really does smooth out and if there is any miss, it is imperceptible in sound as well as performance. Could this just be the cam's nature? Or is it possible to have an ignition-related miss at idle that can go away at a higher RPM? (I know, that was two questions)
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REDONE
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Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:48 pm
Location: Lakewood and Bailey, CO

Re: 89 GW new to the group

Post by REDONE »

It's the cam. Find a YouTube of some top fuel dragsters and listen to how choppy they idle at 1200rpm. The cams are so wild they won't stay running if they idle any lower.
79 J-10 (Honcho Mucho) KE0LSU
304/Performance Fuel Injection TBI/MTA1/SP2P/Magnum rockers
T18/D20/D44s&4.10s/33" Mud Claws
Grizzly Locker Rear
4" front spring drop, 5" rear shackle flip
Chevy style HEI (ECM controlled)
Dolphin "Shark" gauges in a fancy homemade oak bezel
3/4 resto, rotting faster than I've been fixing it.

Topic author
mhubbard
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:43 am

Re: 89 GW new to the group

Post by mhubbard »

az chip wrote:This vehicle does not exist. We have not seen one picture of it!
GW2.JPG
GW3.JPG
Hopefully you can see these - my contribution to grandwagoneerporn
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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az chip
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:59 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: 89 GW new to the group

Post by az chip »

mhubbard wrote:
az chip wrote:This vehicle does not exist. We have not seen one picture of it!
GW2.JPGGW3.JPG

Hopefully you can see these - my contribution to grandwagoneerporn

Very nice!!
'81 Cherokee Chief 81 WT Chief/MSD 6/Holley Sniper/ Rusty 4" Spring lift/ Bulltear oil adapter/K&P Engineering Oil Filter/ NP 208/ Serehill Light Harness/KC LED Headlights/ Evil Twin Fab Roof Rack and sliders/ Ross mirror mounts.

Topic author
mhubbard
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:43 am

Re: 89 GW new to the group

Post by mhubbard »

az chip wrote:
mhubbard wrote:
az chip wrote:This vehicle does not exist. We have not seen one picture of it!
GW2.JPGGW3.JPG

Hopefully you can see these - my contribution to grandwagoneerporn

Very nice!!
haha, thanks! A bit overdue.... not sure how I missed your challenge :worthless:
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