Roxor

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letank
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Re: Roxor

Postby letank » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:29 pm

now we need to find out whose diesel in under the hood? Peugeot or .... IH ?
The transmission is an NGT520 5-speed manual unit based on the Peugeot BA10/5. the BA10/5 did poorly behind the the xj 4.0...
Michel
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Stuka
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Re: Roxor

Postby Stuka » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:35 pm

letank wrote:now we need to find out whose diesel in under the hood? Peugeot or .... IH ?
The transmission is an NGT520 5-speed manual unit based on the Peugeot BA10/5. the BA10/5 did poorly behind the the xj 4.0...


The engine is a M2DICR. Which is a pretty proven engine built by Mahindra.

The BA10/5 was bad because it had an aluminum split case design. The NGT520 has an entirely different case (cast iron, not split design) with BA10/5 internals, which were never an issue in the old Peogeot version. They would just break in half because of case failures.

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1981 J10 AMC 258 with HEI and Weber 32/36 DGEV Carb, T176, NP208, D44/M23 with 4.56 gears and Detroit Locker, 6" lift, 33x12.50 Cooper STT's, BJ's Offroad Rear Dozer Bumper.
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Lumpskie
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Re: Roxor

Postby Lumpskie » Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:27 am

So, not being familiar with that diesel...

Do you guys think the diesel is detuned to meet the less than 76?hp requirement for emmissions? I am wondering if it is only a fuel pin adjustment away from another 30-50 hp and 50-100 ft-lbs of torque like a lot of diesels are.
1989 Grand Wagoneer - Rebuilt 360, 2" Alcans, 10" travel Gabriel Guadian shocks.
1996 Land Cruiser - 1HD-T Diesel, Gturbo (23psi), Wholesale Automatics 442f, F/R ARBs, 35" Duratracs, ARB Rear Bumper, OME 2" lift, home built sliders and aluminum belly skid
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Stuka
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Re: Roxor

Postby Stuka » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:10 am

I was reading on some forums for SE Asia last night and there is a lot of people that mod them. Chances are you could easily get more power out of them. As 68hp from a 2.5L turbo diesel is really low. But they just sip fuel at that power level.
1981 J10 AMC 258 with HEI and Weber 32/36 DGEV Carb, T176, NP208, D44/M23 with 4.56 gears and Detroit Locker, 6" lift, 33x12.50 Cooper STT's, BJ's Offroad Rear Dozer Bumper.
2017 JKU Rubicon Lifted and stuff
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Lumpskie
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Re: Roxor

Postby Lumpskie » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:51 am

Stuka wrote:I was reading on some forums for SE Asia last night and there is a lot of people that mod them. Chances are you could easily get more power out of them. As 68hp from a 2.5L turbo diesel is really low. But they just sip fuel at that power level.


That is what I was thinking. I bet you could turn that motor into a beast with a few tweaks... at least another 100hp and 200 ft lbs of torque.
1989 Grand Wagoneer - Rebuilt 360, 2" Alcans, 10" travel Gabriel Guadian shocks.
1996 Land Cruiser - 1HD-T Diesel, Gturbo (23psi), Wholesale Automatics 442f, F/R ARBs, 35" Duratracs, ARB Rear Bumper, OME 2" lift, home built sliders and aluminum belly skid
2000 Honda Civic - Integra GSR engine, transmission, shift linkage and axles, 200hp, 33 combined mpg
2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 9 - 437hp/447ft-lb

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Stuka
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Re: Roxor

Postby Stuka » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:19 pm

Lumpskie wrote:
Stuka wrote:I was reading on some forums for SE Asia last night and there is a lot of people that mod them. Chances are you could easily get more power out of them. As 68hp from a 2.5L turbo diesel is really low. But they just sip fuel at that power level.


That is what I was thinking. I bet you could turn that motor into a beast with a few tweaks... at least another 100hp and 200 ft lbs of torque.


But really no reason for it. It has plenty of power and gearing for what it is.
1981 J10 AMC 258 with HEI and Weber 32/36 DGEV Carb, T176, NP208, D44/M23 with 4.56 gears and Detroit Locker, 6" lift, 33x12.50 Cooper STT's, BJ's Offroad Rear Dozer Bumper.
2017 JKU Rubicon Lifted and stuff
Pevious Jeeps: 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ

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REDONE
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Re: Roxor

Postby REDONE » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:25 pm

Stuka wrote:
But really no reason for it. It has plenty of power and gearing for what it is.

I agree entirely. Just to put this in context, I have a family owned (acreage) Polaris Ranger 900 with 68hp, a direct competitor to the Roxor. I can tell you that 68 well applied hp is more than enough to knock your hat off and get you your ya-yas. No need to burn dirty diesel to get 6hrs out of a tank either.

I think the Roxor is cool, but I don't think it has a market. People who want an old Jeep will save their pennies and break out their checkbook for an actual Ol' Jeep. For those who need a UTV, the Roxor is a pile of antiquated dog turds next to everything offered from John Deere to Kawasaki. It doesn't even haul 500#, everyone else hauls 1000#, with a built-in dump bed to boot. The Roxor is based on a design for WWII G.I. use, the modern UTV was designed for current Delta Force. It's comparing catapults to cruise missiles.

I hope I'm wrong and that they take off, but cool as it might be, I wouldn't buy it at any price. It will occupy a market that isn't historically profitable: "imported Americana". :-|
79 J-10 (The Money Badger) KE0LSU
304/Performance Fuel Injection TBI/MTA1/SP2P/Magnum rockers
T18/D20/D44s/33" Mud Claws
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4" front spring drop, 5" rear shackle flip
Chevy style HEI (ECM controlled)
Dolphin "Shark" gauges in a fancy homemade oak bezel
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Re: Roxor

Postby Stuka » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:46 am

REDONE wrote:
Stuka wrote:
But really no reason for it. It has plenty of power and gearing for what it is.

I agree entirely. Just to put this in context, I have a family owned (acreage) Polaris Ranger 900 with 68hp, a direct competitor to the Roxor. I can tell you that 68 well applied hp is more than enough to knock your hat off and get you your ya-yas. No need to burn dirty diesel to get 6hrs out of a tank either.

I think the Roxor is cool, but I don't think it has a market. People who want an old Jeep will save their pennies and break out their checkbook for an actual Ol' Jeep. For those who need a UTV, the Roxor is a pile of antiquated dog turds next to everything offered from John Deere to Kawasaki. It doesn't even haul 500#, everyone else hauls 1000#, with a built-in dump bed to boot. The Roxor is based on a design for WWII G.I. use, the modern UTV was designed for current Delta Force. It's comparing catapults to cruise missiles.

I hope I'm wrong and that they take off, but cool as it might be, I wouldn't buy it at any price. It will occupy a market that isn't historically profitable: "imported Americana". :-|


One of the big things the Roxor offers is 3k lbs towing. WAY more than any other UTV. According to them ranchers are really liking them. And there are quite a few states that let you make UTVs street legal. So if you live in one of those places, its a brand new diesel Jeep that you can cruise to work and back.
1981 J10 AMC 258 with HEI and Weber 32/36 DGEV Carb, T176, NP208, D44/M23 with 4.56 gears and Detroit Locker, 6" lift, 33x12.50 Cooper STT's, BJ's Offroad Rear Dozer Bumper.
2017 JKU Rubicon Lifted and stuff
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REDONE
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Re: Roxor

Postby REDONE » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:56 am

Haha! It's not "way more", my ranger tows a ton and the 4 seat version of the Polaris is 2500lbs but I do see you're point. I'd wager that difference has more to do with the geared transmission vs CVTs than anything else. I guess I see the Roxor like I see this music video:


It's cool enough to add to my yootoob party playlist, but I'm not going to order the album anytime soon. :P

I also hope it succeeds because I want the US to trade more with India and less with China. Regardless of my personal valuation of the Roxor, it's completely different than anything currently available on the "new" market and they are making an honest effort to establish themselves as a recognized brand in the US. China just counterfeits whatever is selling with impunity. :x
79 J-10 (The Money Badger) KE0LSU
304/Performance Fuel Injection TBI/MTA1/SP2P/Magnum rockers
T18/D20/D44s/33" Mud Claws
Grizzly Locker Rear
4" front spring drop, 5" rear shackle flip
Chevy style HEI (ECM controlled)
Dolphin "Shark" gauges in a fancy homemade oak bezel
3/4 resto, rotting faster than I've been fixing it.

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Re: Roxor

Postby Stuka » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:48 am

REDONE wrote:Haha! It's not "way more", my ranger tows a ton and the 4 seat version of the Polaris is 2500lbs but I do see you're point. I'd wager that difference has more to do with the geared transmission vs CVTs than anything else. I guess I see the Roxor like I see this music video:

It's cool enough to add to my yootoob party playlist, but I'm not going to order the album anytime soon. :P

I also hope it succeeds because I want the US to trade more with India and less with China. Regardless of my personal valuation of the Roxor, it's completely different than anything currently available on the "new" market and they are making an honest effort to establish themselves as a recognized brand in the US. China just counterfeits whatever is selling with impunity. :x


The Roxor is built in America, so not a whole lot of trade going on with India. Sure some money goes back there, and some components come from there. But most of it benefits american workers.

And yeah, the CVT is a huge weak link in other UTV's (except the yamaha). They go through belts like crazy, even in stock form. Much less towing.
1981 J10 AMC 258 with HEI and Weber 32/36 DGEV Carb, T176, NP208, D44/M23 with 4.56 gears and Detroit Locker, 6" lift, 33x12.50 Cooper STT's, BJ's Offroad Rear Dozer Bumper.
2017 JKU Rubicon Lifted and stuff
Pevious Jeeps: 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ

letank
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Re: Roxor

Postby letank » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:19 am

3 dealership in Denver area, 1 in So Cal and 2 in Reno area...
CVT is really a weak link in anything unless you are transmission repair specialist!
Michel
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85 Gwag (226 Kmiles... the running test lab)
See Engine bits and Fuel and brake lines, and Body work

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REDONE
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Re: Roxor

Postby REDONE » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:39 am

I love my CVTs, in the Ranger and in my Patriot. :D Granted, I installed a real spin-on fluid filter and drained that factory Pennzoil trash fluid out for Castrol in the Patriot.
Image
[/hijack]

I looked up the closest dealers listed by Roxor and only one has one physically in their inventory. So you're right Stuka, if they're already producing at pace, they're getting snatched up as quick as they roll off the line. :-bd
79 J-10 (The Money Badger) KE0LSU
304/Performance Fuel Injection TBI/MTA1/SP2P/Magnum rockers
T18/D20/D44s/33" Mud Claws
Grizzly Locker Rear
4" front spring drop, 5" rear shackle flip
Chevy style HEI (ECM controlled)
Dolphin "Shark" gauges in a fancy homemade oak bezel
3/4 resto, rotting faster than I've been fixing it.

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Stuka
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Re: Roxor

Postby Stuka » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:04 pm

Firned of mine has a Razer Turbo and he gets about about a weekend of use out of a belt. His last razer he made the conversion to use snow mobile belts, which he never had to replace, and they cost 1/3 as much of a razer belt.

For utility UTV's I like Honda's setup where they have a torque converter with a standard automatic transmission.
1981 J10 AMC 258 with HEI and Weber 32/36 DGEV Carb, T176, NP208, D44/M23 with 4.56 gears and Detroit Locker, 6" lift, 33x12.50 Cooper STT's, BJ's Offroad Rear Dozer Bumper.
2017 JKU Rubicon Lifted and stuff
Pevious Jeeps: 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ

letank
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Re: Roxor

Postby letank » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:26 pm

REDONE wrote:I installed a real spin-on fluid filter
Image
[/hijack]


hijack interest, can you elaborate, parts refnum... on that specific spin-on kit that you installed?
thank you
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (226 Kmiles... the running test lab)
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REDONE
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Re: Roxor

Postby REDONE » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:39 pm

I documented the whole mod but misplaced it. I'll try to dig it all up this weekend.

I did quite a bit of research on my CVT (Jatco F11e, used in everything but Toyotas and Honda's) and came to the determination that the filter is the primary cause of failure. It's tiny, has no provision for a bypass, and its the terminus of the cooling circuit regardless of which cooling arrangement it came with (depending on which vehicle it came in). If the filter restricts flow, the fluid relieves to the sump before passing through the cooling circuit, creating run away heating of the fluid (boom goes the pushbelt).

Probably irrelevant, but I'm concocting a plan to address the other complaint for this CVT, the "slingshot" acceleration. The slingshot is where you mash the gas, the engine zips up near redline, but the CVT delays reducing the drive ratio for a second or two. I believe the slingshot response is because the pump is a very small positive displacement pump. The variators hold 850psi fluid, and the drive variator can only drain fluid as fast as the driven variator can fill with more fluid, all while both maintain 850 psi. When I have the time to tinker, I'm going to see if and where I can install a 1000psi 1000cc accumulator in the line pressure, might cut that hesitation down a hair or two. :geek:
79 J-10 (The Money Badger) KE0LSU
304/Performance Fuel Injection TBI/MTA1/SP2P/Magnum rockers
T18/D20/D44s/33" Mud Claws
Grizzly Locker Rear
4" front spring drop, 5" rear shackle flip
Chevy style HEI (ECM controlled)
Dolphin "Shark" gauges in a fancy homemade oak bezel
3/4 resto, rotting faster than I've been fixing it.

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tgreese
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Re: Roxor

Postby tgreese » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:23 am

Someone on the CJ-5 list has one. http://www.earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.ph ... ed.130805/

No inventory currently. Two year lag.
Tim Reese
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Lumpskie
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Re: Roxor

Postby Lumpskie » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:18 am

REDONE wrote:
Stuka wrote:
But really no reason for it. It has plenty of power and gearing for what it is.

I agree entirely. Just to put this in context, I have a family owned (acreage) Polaris Ranger 900 with 68hp, a direct competitor to the Roxor. I can tell you that 68 well applied hp is more than enough to knock your hat off and get you your ya-yas. No need to burn dirty diesel to get 6hrs out of a tank either.

I think the Roxor is cool, but I don't think it has a market. People who want an old Jeep will save their pennies and break out their checkbook for an actual Ol' Jeep. For those who need a UTV, the Roxor is a pile of antiquated dog turds next to everything offered from John Deere to Kawasaki. It doesn't even haul 500#, everyone else hauls 1000#, with a built-in dump bed to boot. The Roxor is based on a design for WWII G.I. use, the modern UTV was designed for current Delta Force. It's comparing catapults to cruise missiles.

I hope I'm wrong and that they take off, but cool as it might be, I wouldn't buy it at any price. It will occupy a market that isn't historically profitable: "imported Americana". :-|


Disagree on 2 points. First, the "dirty diesel... 6 hours a tank" comment. I run a tuned, all mechanical diesel on my daily driver: 1996 Toyota Land Cruiser. It gets 20mpg (when the gas version got 10), doesn't smoke and only applies more fuel when the boost goes higher than stock levels. ($25 Dawes boost controller and rotating the fuel pin to a little more aggressive profile) Reason? I'm building it to tow.

That's the same draw for the Roxor. It has an real engine that is perfectly fine making "real" torque numbers. It could be used to tow real loads and do full size vehicle work. That's it's niche. Turn up the boost and get 300 ft lbs of torque on that diesel and you could easily haul loads around the ranch that you would've needed a tractor or truck for... and use less fuel while you're at it. I'll take a real 5-speed trans with a hi/low t-case and solid axles over modern CVT and CV joints any day of the week.

FWIW: Your post above comes across to me as generally "douchey". I know that you are not typically this way but I'll admit that I had to edit my post a little once my hackles were down. No need for hyperbole like "pile of dog turds" or "comparing catapults to cruise missiles" on the forum.
1989 Grand Wagoneer - Rebuilt 360, 2" Alcans, 10" travel Gabriel Guadian shocks.
1996 Land Cruiser - 1HD-T Diesel, Gturbo (23psi), Wholesale Automatics 442f, F/R ARBs, 35" Duratracs, ARB Rear Bumper, OME 2" lift, home built sliders and aluminum belly skid
2000 Honda Civic - Integra GSR engine, transmission, shift linkage and axles, 200hp, 33 combined mpg
2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 9 - 437hp/447ft-lb

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yz400e
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Re: Roxor

Postby yz400e » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:48 am

Where I live I see a lot of side by side on the road. Most are driven by older farmers headed into town for coffee. I know this because I am usually at the diner having breakfast. In the fall they put doors and windscreens on them and keep driving untill it gets too cold.

When I get home I will have to ask them if they see a use for the roxor.

As for made in America, I would bet that a lot of sub assemblies will be shipped here for assembly. The major components won't be made here.

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Shagoneer
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Re: Roxor

Postby Shagoneer » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:36 pm

There’s 3 dealerships in New Mexico selling them. I have tried on a few occasions to test drive one and they are always sold out.

I assume you are correct and many sub assemblies are made in India, but even so there’s still American jobs in assembling the sub assemblies, cleaning the factory, and a bunch of other jobs being created by them.

The Indian version can go almost 100 mph and it has the same drivetrain, so I assume it’ll be super easy to destroy the governor, go faster, and be able to tow WAY more.


I know a guy nearby that ordered one for work. He repairs farm equipment, and said its small enough to go anywhere, he can fit a tool box in the back, and he can tow equipment from the field to his shop if he needs to.
In the market for a new FSJ

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REDONE
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Re: Roxor

Postby REDONE » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:57 am

Well, this sucks. FCA is suing to stop the Roxor.
http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2018/08/07/ ... clone.html

Regardless of my personal view of the Roxor, unless Jeep has plans to reintroduce a CJ as a $15K UTV, I think Mahindra deserves to succeed or fail on their own merit. :x
79 J-10 (The Money Badger) KE0LSU
304/Performance Fuel Injection TBI/MTA1/SP2P/Magnum rockers
T18/D20/D44s/33" Mud Claws
Grizzly Locker Rear
4" front spring drop, 5" rear shackle flip
Chevy style HEI (ECM controlled)
Dolphin "Shark" gauges in a fancy homemade oak bezel
3/4 resto, rotting faster than I've been fixing it.


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