first prize for worst car maintenance engine design: the dipstick

[letank]

Helped a neighbor check a long time garaged car... german engineering (2001-05 mercedes C240) at its best, no engine oil dipstick, no way to check level, owner's manual said that a warning message will tell you when the level is low, not too sure how much you are supposed to add... the neighbor said that one time the mechanic added too much and it had to be drained... no way to check color either... of course no transmission dispstick either like the BMWs. No mention of tire pressure either in the 350ish page owner's manual, at least there is a sticker on the door jam...
The cherry is the cabin filter for the climate control, it is in the engine bay for easy replacement, there is a gasket to prevent the engine air from mixing into the fresh air intake on the hood, but the air is diverted above the sealed battery... at least you can smell desintegrating battery...
and yes the gas gauge is not working at 40kmiles...

[dodgerammit]

Maintenance free is over-rated. Anything German is over complicated.

Wife has a 13 TDI Beetle. Solid motor (and has a dipstick for the oil at least).

Wish the stupid scandal would just go away. Knocks down a consistent 42-45mpg summer, 39-42mpg winter. On longer trips we enjoy 47-50mpg avg.

Still, what it impresses mechanically, it lacks in simple design. The dang doors are F***ing guillotines. The have no hinge detent whatsoever. Park on anything less than a foward facing slight downhill slope and those things want to amputate your lower limbs. Even on a level spot, they will slowly close.

Really?! My 4th gen T/A has doors that weigh in at 1/3 of the car's total weight and you could suspend the thing by its nose and they still would stay open! American FTW.

Another complaint is the puny A/C will not cool the occupants on anything brighter than a overcast day. It absolutely sucks a**.

You CAN NOT (absolutely CAN NOT) open the rear hatch with the car running. Even being in park with the E brake doesn't allow it. You know how you can be chivalrous and pull curbside in the pouring rain at the grocery store to load groceries for the wife?

Yeah, the car is like "F*** you! You gotta turn me off! HA-HA!" Of course you discover this convenient little feature AFTER you are completely soaked.

Sadly newer American cars are no better. Look a the newer Grand Cherokees and their over complicated gear selector (The one that killed actor Anton Yelchin). https://www.theverge.com/2016/6/27/1204 ... flaw-video

Why in the hell would anyone in their right mind over complicate something that has been proven time after time of reliability and simplicity?! And the fix doesn't fix anything! It is simply more software code that is supposed to apply the parking brake if the door is opened and the vehicle is not in park.

Take a look at the Jeep cherokees with their vulnerable u-connect entertainment system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK0SrxBC1xs

I'll pass. No drive by wire for me!

I'll never buy a new car again. the new ones are just as sketchy as anything used. Only the dealer can supposedly fix them. Bulls***! I'll buy one that is used and has proven itself to be a worthy steed in my stable.

I say take away all of the warning labels and safety features that cover idiots and their lack of common sense. the rest will sort itself out.

[ShagWagon]

And I'm sitting around trying to figure out how to get a dipstick tube back in without bending it.

[tedlovesjeeps71]

Follow the money. Dealerships make a ton of money servicing their products. That's why we see things like dipsticks going the way of the dodo. That's why we see computers that require proprietary software to interface with the car. Keeps the shade tree guys in the unemployment line and the dealership's in the black.
My wife's 2013 VW TDI was an awesome car. But when the 30k mile service was due it cost us over $1000.00. screw that noise.
I blame people. We as a species are growing soft and unwilling to pay attention. We demand (no me or some of us) that cars do all sorts of stuff to keep us safe and allow us to not pay attention to what we are doing. It all must be done FOR us! including maintenance.
Ever looked at early era automobiles? Back then they were a marvel but people had to understand how they worked and be able to maintain them but they were as simple as a tractor. As they became more reliable and common place people lost their interest in working on them. Now days we have a mode of transportation that at best people will go to the effort of putting new air fresheners in. Everything else is fixed by "technicians".


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[csuengr]

That Grand Cherokee shifter was designed by ZF( same ones who designed the transmission). ZF is a German company.

[csuengr]

Follow the money. Dealerships make a ton of money servicing their products. That's why we see things like dipsticks going the way of the dodo. That's why we see computers that require proprietary software to interface with the car. Keeps the shade tree guys in the unemployment line and the dealership's in the black.
My wife's 2013 VW TDI was an awesome car. But when the 30k mile service was due it cost us over $1000.00. screw that noise.
I blame people. We as a species are growing soft and unwilling to pay attention. We demand (no me or some of us) that cars do all sorts of stuff to keep us safe and allow us to not pay attention to what we are doing. It all must be done FOR us! including maintenance.
Ever looked at early era automobiles? Back then they were a marvel but people had to understand how they worked and be able to maintain them but they were as simple as a tractor. As they became more reliable and common place people lost their interest in working on them. Now days we have a mode of transportation that at best people will go to the effort of putting new air fresheners in. Everything else is fixed by "technicians".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There are many people who do not have the means or place to work on their own cars. Being able to work on one is a luxury. Where I currently live, if my Cherk broke, I am screwed. I can't work on it. I can't even change the oil.

[tedlovesjeeps71]

Follow the money. Dealerships make a ton of money servicing their products. That's why we see things like dipsticks going the way of the dodo. That's why we see computers that require proprietary software to interface with the car. Keeps the shade tree guys in the unemployment line and the dealership's in the black.
My wife's 2013 VW TDI was an awesome car. But when the 30k mile service was due it cost us over $1000.00. screw that noise.
I blame people. We as a species are growing soft and unwilling to pay attention. We demand (no me or some of us) that cars do all sorts of stuff to keep us safe and allow us to not pay attention to what we are doing. It all must be done FOR us! including maintenance.
Ever looked at early era automobiles? Back then they were a marvel but people had to understand how they worked and be able to maintain them but they were as simple as a tractor. As they became more reliable and common place people lost their interest in working on them. Now days we have a mode of transportation that at best people will go to the effort of putting new air fresheners in. Everything else is fixed by "technicians".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There are many people who do not have the means or place to work on their own cars. Being able to work on one is a luxury. Where I currently live, if my Cherk broke, I am screwed. I can't work on it. I can't even change the oil.

That's hand in glove. That people choose to live where they are told they cannot work on their car results in them being forced to take it to someone. Dealerships understand this and thus create cars which must go to them for work. More money.... Gotta follow it.

[dodgerammit]

Follow the money. Dealerships make a ton of money servicing their products. That's why we see things like dipsticks going the way of the dodo. That's why we see computers that require proprietary software to interface with the car. Keeps the shade tree guys in the unemployment line and the dealership's in the black.
My wife's 2013 VW TDI was an awesome car. But when the 30k mile service was due it cost us over $1000.00. screw that noise.
I blame people. We as a species are growing soft and unwilling to pay attention. We demand (no me or some of us) that cars do all sorts of stuff to keep us safe and allow us to not pay attention to what we are doing. It all must be done FOR us! including maintenance.
Ever looked at early era automobiles? Back then they were a marvel but people had to understand how they worked and be able to maintain them but they were as simple as a tractor. As they became more reliable and common place people lost their interest in working on them. Now days we have a mode of transportation that at best people will go to the effort of putting new air fresheners in. Everything else is fixed by "technicians".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hmmm. Yours didn't come with the 30K mile service warranty?

[tedlovesjeeps71]

Follow the money. Dealerships make a ton of money servicing their products. That's why we see things like dipsticks going the way of the dodo. That's why we see computers that require proprietary software to interface with the car. Keeps the shade tree guys in the unemployment line and the dealership's in the black.
My wife's 2013 VW TDI was an awesome car. But when the 30k mile service was due it cost us over $1000.00. screw that noise.
I blame people. We as a species are growing soft and unwilling to pay attention. We demand (no me or some of us) that cars do all sorts of stuff to keep us safe and allow us to not pay attention to what we are doing. It all must be done FOR us! including maintenance.
Ever looked at early era automobiles? Back then they were a marvel but people had to understand how they worked and be able to maintain them but they were as simple as a tractor. As they became more reliable and common place people lost their interest in working on them. Now days we have a mode of transportation that at best people will go to the effort of putting new air fresheners in. Everything else is fixed by "technicians".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hmmm. Yours didn't come with the 30K mile service warranty?

Honestly don't remember. She bought it new so I'd guess it had some warranty but I DO remember having to shell out a grand.


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[csuengr]

Follow the money. Dealerships make a ton of money servicing their products. That's why we see things like dipsticks going the way of the dodo. That's why we see computers that require proprietary software to interface with the car. Keeps the shade tree guys in the unemployment line and the dealership's in the black.
My wife's 2013 VW TDI was an awesome car. But when the 30k mile service was due it cost us over $1000.00. screw that noise.
I blame people. We as a species are growing soft and unwilling to pay attention. We demand (no me or some of us) that cars do all sorts of stuff to keep us safe and allow us to not pay attention to what we are doing. It all must be done FOR us! including maintenance.
Ever looked at early era automobiles? Back then they were a marvel but people had to understand how they worked and be able to maintain them but they were as simple as a tractor. As they became more reliable and common place people lost their interest in working on them. Now days we have a mode of transportation that at best people will go to the effort of putting new air fresheners in. Everything else is fixed by "technicians".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There are many people who do not have the means or place to work on their own cars. Being able to work on one is a luxury. Where I currently live, if my Cherk broke, I am screwed. I can't work on it. I can't even change the oil.

That's hand in glove. That people choose to live where they are told they cannot work on their car results in them being forced to take it to someone. Dealerships understand this and thus create cars which must go to them for work. More money.... Gotta follow it.

Choose? That's funny. People lots of times have to live where they can afford, and in my case I had no choice. It was all that was available. You have a very narrow minded view of people's situations.

[tedlovesjeeps71]

There are many people who do not have the means or place to work on their own cars. Being able to work on one is a luxury. Where I currently live, if my Cherk broke, I am screwed. I can't work on it. I can't even change the oil.

That's hand in glove. That people choose to live where they are told they cannot work on their car results in them being forced to take it to someone. Dealerships understand this and thus create cars which must go to them for work. More money.... Gotta follow it.

Choose? That's funny. People lots of times have to live where they can afford, and in my case I had no choice. It was all that was available. You have a very narrow minded view of people's situations.

Lol. Hardly. After 20+ years in the military I have a very good view on how situations can restrict where I can or can not work on my jeeps. It is what it is and you have several options.

1) break the rules (or law in some cases) and fix it yourself.
2) pay someone else to fix it for you.
3) find someplace that you Can work on it. Be it a friend with garage space or like me, on the base auto skills shop.

[letank]

Maintenance free is over-rated. Anything German is over complicated.

Typical of german trans, if you do not expect the vehicle to go over 100K... or want to shell $5K or more for a trans at 120Kmiles

But I am wrong Toyota has joined the trend, with their trans fluid, I had to fight with one of the kid to change the trans fluid on her 07 Scion... at 90K...

[rocklaurence]

Funny in regard to quality. Our FSJs--every fasteners is rusted solid, holes in the panels and the interior is wasted. However, the same area Mercedes--anodised fasteners [come off as easy as they went on 35 years ago], few rust holes and the interiors are still good [not card board backing like the Jeeps].
Lastly, I CHOOSE not to live in an HOA where I can live the way I want to, I agree, if you want to do or know something, you'll find a way, Not find excusses.
It makes me crazy to hear people complain about the cost of things--dont have a way to pay for it and put the service on a credit card!! A good example is a Brake Job. Approximately $100 in parts and $400+ in labor. The shop is paying the kid $12 an hour to do the job you dont have the time to do but are willing to pay the shop $200 per hr....

[Nikkormat]

Funny in regard to quality. Our FSJs--every fasteners is rusted solid, holes in the panels and the interior is wasted. However, the same area Mercedes--anodised fasteners [come off as easy as they went on 35 years ago], few rust holes and the interiors are still good [not card board backing like the Jeeps].

That may be a function of where you live!

[letank]

the interiors are still good [not card board backing like the Jeeps

Ha, Ha, Ha, indeed, working on other vehicles, we can see the nice resilient materials used to insulate the door panels, a nice foam, and door handle that cannot break when pulled with force... but we can fix our behemoth on the side of the road and do not need a certified mechanic with 20 year experience, .... the driver usually has the experience...

So btt, any other brand weirdness... back to Saab then, the need for special tool make this vehicle un-manageable... beside the fact that the engine tend to eat headgasket due to electrolysis if the coolant is not changed regularly...

[SJTD]

Maintenance free is over-rated. Anything German is over complicated.

Typical of german trans, if you do not expect the vehicle to go over 100K... or want to shell $5K or more for a trans at 120Kmiles

But I am wrong Toyota has joined the trend, with their trans fluid, I had to fight with one of the kid to change the trans fluid on her 07 Scion... at 90K...

Ha! This reminds me of the 01M automatics in VW's. "Lifetime" trans fluid. Never need to change it.

If you look at a bottle of the stuff from the dealer it has like a two year shelf life but put it in the car, cook it, contaminate it, shear it and it lasts forever!

[Tatsadasayago]

The lack of a dipstick on the Mercedes reminds me of the 30s-40s Cadillacs and others with no oil filters. I used to chouffeur and do maintenance for a friend who had a fleet of 37-41 Cadillac touring sedans and had to drop the oil pan to do an oil change. Seems stupid nowdays but that's how it was. At least those cars had dipsticks.

[dodgerammit]

Maintenance free is over-rated. Anything German is over complicated.

Typical of german trans, if you do not expect the vehicle to go over 100K... or want to shell $5K or more for a trans at 120Kmiles

But I am wrong Toyota has joined the trend, with their trans fluid, I had to fight with one of the kid to change the trans fluid on her 07 Scion... at 90K...

Nah. There is the Getrag and the Ford ZF 5 and 6 speeds. Of course those are manuals. There is a reason I still prefer a manual shifted vehicle over (especially modern) automatics. You lose half of the potential high maintenance headaches. My T/A is a 6 speed. Still, a good old powerglide or 727 as far as an auto goes isn't a bad thing.

[letank]

For the fun part: on Jeeps no need for a dipstick if your parking spot is missing a stain, you know that oil is needed either on front or rear axle, transfer case, trany or engine, forgot power steering and coolant...

[dodgerammit]

Funny in regard to quality. Our FSJs--every fasteners is rusted solid, holes in the panels and the interior is wasted. However, the same area Mercedes--anodised fasteners [come off as easy as they went on 35 years ago], few rust holes and the interiors are still good [not card board backing like the Jeeps].

That may be a function of where you live!

I will say modern materials and corrosion protection is a good thing. My last T/A had 200k on it when an inattentive driver took it out . I bought it back from the insurance, kept my built 6 speed, and parted the rest. The fact that it came apart with minimal fuss is amazing considering it was 17 years old. No rust other than very light areas of minimal surface corrosion (mainly on suspension stuff).