Funny interview moment

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Shagoneer
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Funny interview moment

Post by Shagoneer »

I had an interview at New Mexico Tech today for a machinist position. One of the things they asked me was how flexible I was to change, and then provided this example.

Apparently yesterday they were doing test for a gun company (they didnt tell me which one), the test involved shooting a bullet out of a VERY precise bullet and then capturing it on multiple types of recording devices over a 1000 yard range to see how the bullet behaved. One of these recording devices was a high speed camera.
When the company gave NM Tech the measurements for the barrel they asked for the throat and chamber to be as close to spec as physically possibly, and gave a cartridge for measurement purposes. When they came yesterday to do the actual test, the gun company decided to dip the bullet in bright purple paint to make it easier to see on the camera. Because of how exact the barrel was made to the given dimensions the bullet would no longer load into the barrel.
So at this point rather than use unpainted ammo, they decided that NM Tech needed to go make a new barrel, and still have it ready for testing by the end of the day.

Is anyone else scared by the fact that a company that exist solely to make guns/ammo (not sure which) didnt realize that painting a bullet would change its dimensions?
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bigun
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Re: Funny interview moment

Post by bigun »

No, engineers tend to be near sighted when it comes to practical things.
Local machine shop likes to show the result of a order from Sandia labs for a 12 inch round hole in a 12 inch square plate IIRC the dimensions basically they handed him a box with four square corners in it! When I was still doing electrical contracting I had a special fee for when the wife would call me up to fix something her husband who worked for the labs had tried to fix!!

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Re: Funny interview moment

Post by SJTD »

I'm surprised they expected a new barrel to be made. Kind of a specialty a typical machine shop isn't equipped to do. What's up with that?

Also, even if the bullet chambered the paint wouldn't survive the trip through the barrel. Logical thing would be to remove the paint where it contacts the barrel.

Furthermore, not clear if the bullet or the barrel was being tested, but either way paint would screw up any data since isn't a very precise coating no matter how carefully applied.

Being a non-nearsighted engineer it seems to me this whole thing was a fish-story they gave you or it was a waste of time if it actually happened.
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Re: Funny interview moment

Post by Shagoneer »

I do believe it happened with how POd they all seemed talking about it. The bullet was being tested, thus the last minute idea of painting it to make it easier to watch on the video.
Also NM Tech is anything but typical. Once a month we have a "car bomb" for everyone in town to comb watch blow up.
EMRTC (which is where I had my interview) specializes in building and then blowing up stuff, and testing guns/bullets, They have everything needed to make a SAAMI spec test barrel let alone a standard barrel used in a rifle.
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Re: Funny interview moment

Post by SJTD »

Sounds like a cool place to work. Hope you get it.

Is that connected to White Sands?
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Re: Funny interview moment

Post by csuengr »

This also to me sounds like a fish story, or incomplete story. Measuring a case for chamber dimensions would only work if that case was fire formed in a spec chamber, and then it would still be a little small. If the bullet were actually that precise, then the engineers WOULD have known that putting paint on it would change not only the dimensions, but flight characteristics. Paint has weight.

Changing the groove diameter (assuming rifled barrel) would also have significant changes on the bullet performance.
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Re: Funny interview moment

Post by SJTD »

Close to spec as possible I took to mean they wanted it at the nominal SAAMI spec.

Seems to me the only issue would have been the throat diameter. Ideally it would be a fuzz over the bullet diameter and coat of paint could certainly prevent chambering.

Who knows? Maybe the guy that designed the test wasn't the guy on site that had the brilliant idea of painting the projectile.

Again, the paint wouldn't survive even entering the rifling and after a few shots would build up in the leade and throat and make chambering another round difficult. Maybe cause excessive pressure too.
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Re: Funny interview moment

Post by Stuka »

How about the fact that the company didn't realize that paint would invalidate the test, as the weight of the round is changed with the addition of the paint? Not to mention the drag coefficient.

But I am sure the idea to paint it was not the same guy that designed it.
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Re: Funny interview moment

Post by fulsizjeep »

They were fishing and putting you on the spot. What BS. Chamber one and point back.
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Re: Funny interview moment

Post by d4xycrq »

Folks have been painting and powder coating bullets for years! A throat close to spec would have permitted that bullet to chamber - paint and all. There's more to the story.

But, meanwhile, you get the job?! Good luck!

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Re: Funny interview moment

Post by rocklaurence »

With demenssions that tight, wouldn't ambient and barrel temperature effect the clearances also? However, the paint was not in the original agreement and I'm sure that they could have to cover the expense of the new barrel. They added the new varible to the project...
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Re: Funny interview moment

Post by REDONE »

I was a fabricator/machinist, and I quit to get my ME degree and I just whipped up this drawing to show why. Machinists should laugh, and at least one engineer who sees it will wonder why it's funny. These things usually come in an email on tuesday afternoon with the message:
"Hey Matt, I'm headed to Germany this afternoon, but I need ten of these for a proof of concept on Monday. Thanks man!"
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Hint: the joke isn't the lack of dimensions. :P
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Re: Funny interview moment

Post by Shagoneer »

What do you mean you cant make the drill go through the second vertical piece without going through the first as well? Having worked in a machine shop, and having finished half of my ME degree I can picture that conversation...
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Re: Funny interview moment

Post by REDONE »

Right? There's ten ways I can make that, but they all affect other features or material properties. Without more input from the engineer, I've got a 10 out of 10 chance that the way I choose will be wrong. :roll:

If I don't do anything, then I'm "lazy" and making excuses, so I have to waste time trying to find somebody familiar with the project to answer my questions, and the usual feedback is "You're the machinist, why do you need an engineer to tell you how to do your job?" :banghead:

The fact they made so much more money than me inspired me to get my degree. 8-) , I'm only halfway through, myself. Took my last finals for core and prereq classes last Wednesday. I'm glad that everything I've got left is all degree specific.
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Re: Funny interview moment

Post by Tatsadasayago »

Interesting about the paint...
What gets me is that on a typical rimmeless headed case, headspacing is at the shoulder. An additional layer of paint on the bullet wouldn't prevent chambering of the round since the weakest material is the paint, which would be simply scraped off. Any rifle not dedicated to extreme accuracy would have at least a SAAMI minimum chamber which considers the need for a slight clearance between the case and chamber to account for fouling.

Oh and REDONE; I'd cut the near end off, bore the hole and have a good welder put it back on. :P
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Re: Funny interview moment

Post by Shagoneer »

Well... I was half way done. But when I transferred tNM tech for NMSU I found out they have a BioMed Engineering program, which aligns more with what I want to do after recent events in my life. But hopefully in the next 3ish years Ill be done with my fist degree...so that I can then go back to school for 4 more to get my grad degree, then I can finally be done with school.


I havent heard from them if I got it yet, but they did say they would call everyone who interviewed once they make a decision to let them know if they were chosen or not. I feel like I interviewed pretty well, and they all seemed to like me, the only problem is the guy that interviewed after me worked there previously so they make take him so they dont have to do any training or paperwork.
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REDONE
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Re: Funny interview moment

Post by REDONE »

Tatsadasayago wrote:
Oh and REDONE; I'd cut the near end off, bore the hole and have a good welder put it back on. :P
But if I'm going to do that, I could just drill through an outer fin to get to the center fin, then weld in a plug on the outer fin. Or:

I could make it with one fin flat and the base + flat fin thicker than spec. Bend it up after drilling the center fin and machine the base and bent fin to spec to get rid of the radii. Or:

I can make it exactly like it is, and use an EDM to create the hole in 8 passes. Or: ...

Without guidance from the engineer, I'm either wasting time and material to keep features/tolerances that aren't critical, or I'm wasting time and materials to make parts that won't work. I've put in 40hrs of overtime to make things exactly as drawn and received the butt chewing, and I've made junk parts and got that butt chewing too. If the method I use changes the grain structure of the material (welding or bending), do I need to bump someone else off a furnace to heat treat it? Because that's another 20-40 hours before the parts are ready on Monday. At the very least, I need to know if this fits into something and what the forces on it will be. Is it a special hook for something heavy or is it a foot for a leveling leg on a piece of equipment? For reasons I haven't learned yet in school, most engineers I've worked with are unreasonably reluctant to answer these kinds of questions.

So, a fun story about an engineer that DID explain any question I asked on a project, the guy was awesome, and honestly, the only reason I sometimes feel a little bit guilty when I say bad things about Stanford (his Alma mater). While I can't be specific about the huge capital project, you know that Star Trek where they go back in time to snag some whales and Scotty is PO'ed because transparent aluminum hasn't been invented yet? Well, I work with this guy for months, selecting materials, working on the challenges with energy and space constraints, building models and spec'ing machines (most machines for the type were european, so finding which would be easiest to get parts for or could be adapted to US electricity easiest with regards to main and control power, especially involving the buildings integrated safeties and such). One day I get called into a meeting (I was a greasy coveralls employee: shaved head, Amish beard and tattoo sleeves , surrounded by people in suits who's names are on buildings downtown).
Image
I find out that the project manager had planned to resign and that was all scheduled, but that the engineer I was working with quit the day after the PM resigned, and they needed me to bring the new PM and engineer up to speed. I start talking and after 5 minutes I get interrupted because what I'm saying isn't what's on paper in front of them. Turns out, the departing PM ignored everything the engineer and I worked on and ordered all the wrong machinery and materials in order to get one last "I saved $$$ on this project" bullet for their resume. :lol: I don't blame that engineer for walking out. It was pretty obvious that the whole mess would've been wrapped around his neck once all the wrong things started showing up. From what I understand, the whole project got scrapped shortly after I left, too. I only had the deckplate details, none of the big picture perspective of what happens in laboratories and offices (like having the sand part of sandpaper, but without the paper). It was plagued with other problems too, the contract riggers dropped two new machines, pushing things back for months each time. It was interesting in a comedy of errors type of way, but also really sad to see how one person not held accountable was able to destroy something so cool for a resume bullet. :cry:
Image

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_oxynitride
Last edited by REDONE on Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
79 J-10 (Honcho Mucho) KE0LSU
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T18/D20/D44s&4.10s/33" Mud Claws
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4" front spring drop, 5" rear shackle flip
Chevy style HEI (ECM controlled)
Dolphin "Shark" gauges in a fancy homemade oak bezel
3/4 resto, rotting faster than I've been fixing it.
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Re: Funny interview moment

Post by Shagoneer »

Remember when things go right its the executives fault, when things go wrong its the engineer or machinist fault.
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Tatsadasayago
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Re: Funny interview moment

Post by Tatsadasayago »

Yanno REDONE, if you changed a few titles I swear you would be talking about Army Aviation! :P
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