Fuel delivery

[Nikkormat]

Before I drop $40 bucks on some fuel line, let me pose this question to the group.

With a pump delivering 60 gph at 100 psi through 5/16 line will I have enough fuel flow for TBI? Or do I need to step up to 3/8 line?

Its worth mentioning that my return line is also 5/16. Will that be sufficient?

[Tatsadasayago]

5/16" line is fairly standard for all smaller EFI engines but 3/8" lines will mean you'll never have to say "I'm sorry".

[Nikkormat]

Should I go 3/8 on return too?

[Tatsadasayago]

That would be your call, but I doubt you will need larger than 5/16 on the return.

[csuengr]

Why the heck are you using a 100 psi pump.

5/16" is more than sufficient. I ran a 270 hp (net) LT1 off 5/16" line and had no problems with fuel starvation.

Here is the issue with 5/16". Fittings are hard to find.

[AwesomeJ10]

One of the reasons why you need 3/8" fuel line is very simple: the inlet port on the TBI itself is 3/8". Not to mention but the E2000 fuel pump (and many others) are also 3/8" and many fuel filters are 3/8". Is it possible to run 5/16 inlet? Yes, but why?

You can run the 5/16" fuel return because the outlet port on the TBI is 5/16". Some folks run 3/8" (and I have too). The point of the return line is to get near zero PSI of pressure going back to the tank.

I recommend you map out how the fuel lines are going to go on your tank.

You have no emissions correct?

[Nikkormat]

The pump is way overkill. I know.

No, I don't have any emissions. Currently my fuel lines are run like this:

With the TBI I won't have any need to retain the non functioning evaporative emissions controls. So the "LIQUID CHECK VALVE TO CANISTER HOSE" (a 5/16 nylon hard line run up the firewall to that back of the motor) will become my return line. It will be plumbed into the "VAPOR VENT" nipple designed to vent the back of the tank. The front vent will be either teed into the "FILLER HOSE" or into the "FILLER VENT HOSE"

If it's an issue of hose size at the unit I could run 3/8 hard line from the frame up to the throttle body and retain most of my existing line.

5/16 nylon line also has a larger ID than 5/16 steel line. I don't have any 3/8 steel to measure it against but I think it would provide enough fuel.

[Bill usn-1]

Feed is 3/8, return is 5/16" ....period. That's how the system is designed to operate.
Any connection or fitting installed inline reduces the ID of the line and restricts the flow.
If you breathe thru a 1/4" straw that is 6" long it's no problem. Now go try to breathe thru your 5/8" garden hose that's 50' long and you will have a hard time.
Diameter and length affect flow. The longer the line the more wall friction that opposes flow.

I will state this again to try get everyone informed.......

PUMPS DO NOT CREATE PRESSURE. THEY PUMP FUEL.
REGULATORS CREATE PRESSURE.
THE PUMP IS RATED TO FLOW A SPECIFIC VOLUME OF FUEL AT A SPECIFIED PRESSURE.

I run the factory ford frame mounted pump capable of flowing fuel up to a rated 90psi. That does NOT mean your fuel pressure is 90psi!

The GM TBI system has a regulator in the throttle body on the outlet of the injectors that is set from 11-13psi. That is your system pressure.

If you walk out to your garden hose and put a T at the end with a pressure gauge what will it read?
0psi
Put your thumb over the end of the hose and the pressure will now rise to the amount of restriction you can apply to the end.
The volume of water will be the same but the pressure and the stream being sprayed will be higher.

Read the FAQs in the injection forum at www.binderplanet.com

[AwesomeJ10]

Yes.

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[Nikkormat]

I know that the pressure will be zero if the system is operating correctly. I was merely providing the specifications for the pump.

I have to ask seemingly stupid questions like this to keep me from doing the stupid things I ask about.

Does anyone see a problem with my proposed fuel line routing?

I still believe that 5/16 would provide enough flow, but if everyone says no then I believe them. If I didn't care about the advice I wouldn't ask.

[AwesomeJ10]

Nikkormat - you will rip out 100% of the junk that is there.

BTW - I dug up a lot of my TBI junk last night and I'm ready to show you the way.

[Bill usn-1]

Questions are not a problem.
Just making sure the answers are correct to ensure you a successful installation.

Run all new 3/8 line from the pump to the TBI and if needed, use the original line as the return back to the tank. You can use a short length of 5/16 from the tank to the filter but use 3/8 from the pump to the TBI.
Go to your local parts store and get 3/8" steel universal brake line. They have it hanging in the back in various lengths. Just measure how long you need once the filter and pump are mounted. Then use small cushion clamps to attach along the frame with some self drilling screws.
Use injected rated hose and clamps to make the connections on each end. Not carb rated fuel line!

DSC00965 (640x480).jpg

[Xplitive]

Bill, is that the $25 Ebay E2000? Looks like it has the dorman 5/16 to 3/8 fittings on it at least.

Where in the heck do you get the fuel pump clamps? I keep coming up with small ones.

sorry for the threadjack nikkormat

[AwesomeJ10]

My only comment here is for cost savings: get the fuel line that literally says 'not for fuel injection'. I've been running that now for years without issue. The TBI only runs 10-15 psi.

I'm sure Bill has a technical explanation as to why the carb hose is bad, but it's working for me.

Now on my dually with vortec 8.1, I bought some pretty expensive fuel line as that runs around 62psi.

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[Nikkormat]

Hijack appreciated. I was just trying to find clamps actually.

Any idea which e2000 that is Bill? It looks like the Bosch made one.

[Nikkormat]

So I should just buy the dorman connectors? Or is there a way to put 3/8 rubber on the E2000?

[FSJ Guy]

You can get different sized hose barbs at Ace Hardware.

[Bill usn-1]

All the E2000 pumps should interchange. mid 90's ford F250 frame mounted pump.
I like the airtex brand but heard they changed last year?
Get the pump from where ever you want.
Get the dorman 800-119 quick connects fittings.
For the pump mounting clamps, look at rubber cushion clamps at about any hardware store.
1 1/2- 2" depending on how thick the rubber sleeve is that comes with the pump.
Use Fuel injected rated hose and clamps not the worm gear clamps.
The whole idea is safety.
The pumps are designed to pump fuel up to a rated pressure...as described earlier.
If any line ever gets pinched the pump will continue to pump up to it's max pressure rating. Normally about 80psi.
The carb fuel line is only rated to a max of 15psi. So it only works when everything is good. But if there is a problem it will burst and you can have a flame thrower.
Seriously, is it worth saving $5-10 to do it wrong vs doing it right?
I do not recommend ever using the hardware store brass fittings for the fuel lines. They are thick wall and have a very small ID so they restrict fuel flow.