Junkyard TBI Vs Howell

[J.Bradley]

I know Howell is a complete system minus fuel lines but what am I getting for $1300.00? If a donor 90's Chevrolet is available and TBI, Harness, Speed sensor Etc. was pulled for use what would be different than the aftermarket kit? Are aftermarket kits programmed different? I do not see a crank sensor with kit to fire the injectors so I figure the are just using the tach signal to pulse the ECM. Also what about and adapter plate from carb mount to 3 bolt TBI. I really am looking forward to the 25MPG I will be getting on the TBI, Oh wait, that is on the vehicle used to go and get Jeep parts.

[tgreese]

Yes, Howell uses the tach signal. No spark control. The tach signal supplies RPM data to select the fuel settings.

Yes, they are programmed differently. You are paying for the custom programming.Howell can also certify for smog compliance with a CARB number. They have a package that is 50-states emission compliant. You pay extra for the CARB number sticker, and the approved program that goes with it.

[FSJ Guy]

It's the age old question: Which do you have more of? Time or money? I have purchased and installed a Howell kit and also have done the "junkyard" TBI route as well.

If you have more time than money, a junkyard TBI is the way to go. You will need to know how to use a computer and should not be afraid of COM ports and such.

OTOH, if you can install an aftermarket radio, you can install the Howell TBI kit. Provided that you have the O2 sensor bung welded in by a shop, it can be done in a weekend if you have EVERYTHING planned out. (Where to mount fuel pump,replacing old fuel hoses, etc)

That all said, my latest TBI project is still only 1/3 completed. It's a "junkyard" system I cobbled together with parts of an old Howell kit (harness) and a newer ECM. It's partially installed right now with the plan to have it running by spring.

If I had purchased a Howell system, it would be running right now. LOL!

[Bill usn-1]

You can also do some of both.
Save money and DIY.
If you have done any searching on here you have found the links to the injection forum on binderplanet.com.
Along with showing every part and wire needed to do a junkyard conversion I also provide each specific custom part/harness/tune that you need to just bolt on the junkyard parts.
So you can DIY or buy a complete kit or do a hybrid of the 2.
Option is yours.
Here's is a link to some of the parts and services I offer.
http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/inde ... ce.102989/

The Howell system is not a complete EFI system. You are paying for only half the system. It is a fuel only efi with no timing control.
The timing control is what improves the drivability of the vehicle.
The only real difference in fuel control from a carb is it uses the o2 sensor for feed back to help the system correct for the proper AFR while driving.
That helps with the MPGs. It's a combo of both that make the EFI work really well.

[J.Bradley]

Thanks for the info, I have been researching the different options and I do want the timing control, I do not want an electric carburetor. I found AFI incorporates timing into their systems. I do not mind the DIY but a list of material as you described is what I was after for that method. Do you have a link to the junkyard parts list? I would really like to build a setup than buy a off the shelf kit but I do not want to work against myself if there is knowledge from others who have been there already.

[FSJ Guy]

Info is all over the web. See my sig file. See Binder Planet's EFI forum. Check out www.gearhead-efi.com as well. www.Moates.net also has the hardware you'll want to use for re-programming your ECM.

LOTS and LOTS of reading!!!! Read it twice and then read it again. Ask questions about it. Read some more. Then go install some parts and come back and ask new questions! LOL!

Don't worry, that's how everyone starts. : D

[J.Bradley]

Thanks for the links. Measure twice, Cut once.

[Bill usn-1]

The links you need were already provided. Just click the links in my sig for the DIY stuff and the link I posted for the parts needed to make it all work. Once you at the injection forum on binderplanet.com just click the thread that says "start here".
There is a list with absolutely everything you need for DIY.
It can't get any easier.

[J.Bradley]

Thanks, Got it now. I was using the link in the reply and made it to Binderplanet but never found the Start here even with a search. Now I have got got some reading to do and start my scavenger hunt.
Thanks again.

[j10jim]

But Howell is the only California smog legal version.

If I could I would run any number of EFI but not here. Also to really get great mileage you need the 4speed auto trans along with EFI. That is where you will see the big gains in MPG.

[firedog]

I've done both. If you can do your own work, have patience to do some good research and take the time to make things right, DIY is a better way to go. Will fit your rig better as you trim down and make the harness fit perfectly to your rig. Howell is a good plug and play if you don't want to do the work and want to mostly just install, but you can save a lot of money, and I think, get a better product if you can do good work yourself. My $.02 having done both systems.

[WT91]

I haven't finished my DIY TBI yet, but I have reached the stage of bench testing the whole system. Can't drop it on the truck since the truck has no motor yet

DIY TBI in my opinion is much more personally-tailored to your truck, your wants, your needs. You get fuel AND spark control, you get the reliability of an OEM system, with the same easy to find parts, etc. Programming the computer yourself isn't too scary, and you can get everything you need from Moates for about $150. There are tons of resources online, especially Bill Hamilton's work over on Binderplanet, that can help you through the development process. And if the chip programming scares you, there are people online who will quite literally guide you through it step by step.

[J.Bradley]

I would like to do the DYI route just the time to gather the parts is my dilemma. What components are you getting from Moates, The setup I saw was over $300 and still needed chip adapter.


Does anyone have all the junkyard parts needed already? Maybe extras or have not got to it yet?

[WT91]

All you need to scan/program your own chips is:

Bill Hamilton's ALDL cable. $30.
A BURN-2 chip burner. $85. http://www.moates.net/burn2-chip-progra ... l?cPath=64
And then maybe one of these GP-1 packages (If you're running a newer 7427 computer). $55. http://www.moates.net/gp1-package-gm-ad ... l?cPath=64
If you're running an older computer, like a 7747, you would need 1 G2 Socket adapter ($30) and 1 27SF512 chip ($5).

All of this requires basic soldering skills and a leap of self-faith. If you feel like you can solder decently well, you can handle this. If you can't, find someone who can locally and buy him a pizza to do it for you. I'm an IT guy who does stuff like this for laughs, so it doesn't frighten me in the least. The trick is heat control, just keep the board from getting nuked and you're home free.

Check out binderplanet for a literal shopping list of everything you would need, item by item, for a complete basic setup.

[J.Bradley]

Soldering is not an issue, I once gave the Libyans a shinny casing full of used pinball machine parts.
I am sure the programming would not be an issue once done, just that have never done it before feeling.

[FSJ Guy]

What WT91 said.

Depending on your ECM/PCM, you'll want the correct adapter. Once you have your ECM, we can help with that. Solder it in and you're set. Some of the "newer" PCM's had removable parts so you can remove the factory EPROM and solder in your own EEPROM, but the adapter from Moates is inexpensive enough and I don't mind supporting someone who offers good products.

I've soldered in the adapters using a cheap Radio Shack iron and somehow managed not to burn the pads. Using a REAL iron would make it a breeze. It's all through hole soldering. No surface mount components here!

The programming isn't too hard, either. The Burn2 software walks you through it, taking care of the offsets and other stuff that is needed to properly program a chip. The biggest issue is to not put the chip in backwards. You WILL burn out a chip installed backwards in the ECM. If you're lucky, you'll only do it ONCE. :- p

RE the $300 price, you were probably looking at the AutoProm. It is a great tool since it can be used as an emulator and you can update your binary file (bin) on the fly. Nice to have, but not required. I bought one, sold it, used a Burn2 for a while and bought it back several years later.

The only thing to note is that the AutoProm will NOT burn the large capacity chips required if you're going to put multiple bins on the same chip for the 16197427 PCM. Other than that, the AutoProm will handle everything else for you.

[babywag]

If you want to keep costs down?

You can just modify a 27SF512 chip w/ a piece of wire soldered to some of the pins, and mod the stock 7747 chip holder.
Main issue I had w/ buying sockets/adapters and soldering them to stock 7747, is when my 7747 crapped out.
Didn't feel like desoldering/resoldering...just modded a chip & holder, so the socket/adapter really is not needed.

The moates burn device works well I've had a Burn1 for years and years.

You can buy a $5 USB ttl converter from many sources for ALDL use, just need 2 wires connected (for 7747) and a USB cable.

You can do the same with a 7427 pcm memcal, just desolder the stock chip and solder in a 27SF512 chip.
Then just need a header ($10 moates) to use the burn2 and the stock memcal.

I also have an Ostrich2 from moates, it holds 8 tunes, and works very well.

Far as gathering parts, many many options, post in wanted section? Most yards will pull/ship stuff for a little more than DIY u-pull-it prices. eBay.

[WT91]

I dont want to put a plug for my classified ad, but I've got a 5.7 TBI unit for sale in the classifieds. That'd give you a start. From there, get a computer and wiring harness from any TBI chevy truck/van and wallah.

[J.Bradley]

I've soldered in the adapters using a cheap Radio Shack iron and somehow managed not to burn the pads. Using a REAL iron would make it a breeze. It's all through hole soldering. No surface mount components here!

I hope I could manage with this old iron.

[WT91]

I would say that iron would do the job quite nicely. I've soldered boards with regular old $20 pencil irons from Radioshack. I think I would die a happy man if I got to tinker with one of those.