What to do for a DD?

[Jtruax3]

Okay so after reading a bunch of posts and talking to a couple people about this I thought I'd asked because my brain has turned to mush and I feel more lost.
So I have my 77' that I'm really close to having ready to start driving but it will be my daily driver. Right now I have the 360 with edelbrock carb,intake and headers. It's a 4 barrel but I've been told a quad jet,Tbi or a 5.3 swap is what I need because of my daily commute. My question is for the money what's the best bang for your buck? I have no plans for off-roading,the most dirt it's going to see is just when I'm on dirt roads going to the lake or camping. It's going to have the stock diameter tires. I just want it to be reliable and not kill my wallet on mpg.Any help would appreciated.


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[shimniok]

That's easy. Run it like it is if it works. Fix it if you need to later.

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[Jtruax3]

True,I have to get the fuel gauge working and find someone that can tune the carb bc I'm getting a decent amount of black water dripping from the exhaust and if your anywhere near the exhaust your eyes burn so it's got to be running rich. Once I get that stuff squared away I guess I can see where my mpg is at.


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[derf]

The Edelbrock carb is fine for a daily driver. And it's as fuel efficient as any other carburetor. And that depends a lot on tuning. A good vacuum tune of the distributor timing and the idle settings on the carburetor will make the most difference.

There's no "need" to go to anything else if what you have works for you.

Now if you "want" to change, there's a lot of people who can help answer questions about what is involved going with any of the FI options.

[Jtruax3]

Ya I mean from what I've read from the sounds of it it looks like I'll be around 8-10 mpg? I really would like it to be better than that if that ends up being the case which is why I'm really interested in finding out what I'd be getting myself into


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[derf]

There's a lot of things that affect mileage. A well tuned carburetor alone can give you many whole MPG improvements over one that is well out of tune.

Thing is, though, you're driving a heavy brick on wheels. From a mileage perspective, everything is working against you. There's absolutely no way you're going to get great mileage no matter what route you go. High teens is about as good as it's going to get and that's only if you dump a ton of money and time into doing a lot of upgrades (i.e. complete EFI engine swap with overdrive transmission). And after that many thousands of dollars invested, the mileage improvements will take years to recoup.

If you are really hung up on getting great mileage, a full size Jeep isn't for you.

[Jtruax3]

I'd be happy if I could get 15 mpg. I started seeing guys talking about getting 20+mpg with the 5.3 swap and I sparked my interest but I totally understand that doing the swap is a lot of labor and cost to get done. But doing the TBI or a Quadjet is mainly what I'm wondering if it's worth messing with or if it's not going to be a night and day difference vs tuning the engine and carb.


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[WT91]

[Jtruax3]

Ooouu good idea!


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[WT91]

I didn't mean that picture to come across snarky or sarcastic.

I daily drove my Wagoneer for a while and had the same issues with terrible fuel economy. The most you can reasonably expect out of a 30~ year old truck is 12 MPG in tip top trim. Confronted with the poor fuel economy, higher insurance cost, and higher mechanical failure rate I grabbed myself one of those little Saturn Coupes for about $1200. Had A/C, manual trans, was in good shape. Got about 40 MPG and rode like a charm, brake pads and such are dirt cheap, tires are dirt cheap, etc. Save the FSJ for weekend fun.

[Jtruax3]

No worries I'm sorry I didn't me it to sound like that either!


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[shimniok]

These vehicles were rated 10/13mpg in the 80s with part time tcases (full time do worse). It is possible to do better but it is difficult with a carb. I have seen many many mpg threads over the years and I think you are doing very good if you can get 12 in mixed city/hwy.

I have seen some report higher, sure, but do they record mpg at every fill up over months or years? Or is that a high score? Or an optimistic "average" that forgets about the several 9mpg entries going uphill?

Modern drivetrains and vehicles easily do better. But only a little better despite enormous CAFE pressure. How? Overdrive automatics, improved aerodynamics (not a forethough in the late 50s when the Wagoneer body was designed...), modern engine designs, and multiport fuel injection.

Our wagoneers, even those in the 90s ran the same basic 1960's tech. And back then 12mpg was io impressive.

It is hard and/or costly to do better so then the question is, how long before the extra 3mpg pays off?

Edit: a Qjet will probably get you into the 12mpg range without much trouble. Edelbrock, probably not. The 2150 isn't bad but the power valve failing regularly causes major fuel inefficiency.

My TBI average since I got timing dialed in is around high 11s to mid 12s in mixed city/hwy, mixed flat and steep mountain passes. That is with 4" lift, 33" tires on steel wheels, and roof rack. Stock I bet 14mpg would be easy.

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[Jtruax3]

Gotcha. Any idea an average to expect to do a 5.3? Swap? A buddy of mine did the 5.3 his el camino 5 years ago and drop 7k but he's the type that wants everything bullet proof and had other guys doing it. If it's realistic to do a swap for half or less I'd do it.


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[WT91]

I'd say a reasonable LS swap budget is in the 5-6K range. Anything less than that and you're going to start cutting corners that should be left uncut. In all seriousness, the best way to get reliability/MPG out of a FSJ is to park it and buy a second designated daily driver vehicle.

Let's look at the finances:

$5-6K for an LS swap. Minimum. Lets say in the perfect world it increases your MPG from 10 to 20, and 20 MPG is a damn high guess for an LS Wagoneer (Despite what everyone else on the interweb has said ). If you drive 10,000 miles a year @ 20 MPG vs 10 MPG you'll save about 500 gallons of fuel, which equals about $1000 dollars saved @ $2/gal (about what it is here in NJ). It'll take about 5 years to pay itself off. Now lets take the little 40 MPG Saturn that costs about $1500. You're quadrupling your gas mileage for less than a fourth of the cost. Now you're only using 250 gallons for a yearly cost of $500. It pays for itself in a year.

Keep the Jeep for camping trips and weekend cruising, but have something reliable and efficient for getting you to work. If it wasn't for that little saturn and my new (to me) F350, I would've been screwed big time years ago by my Wagoneer. Probably to the point of selling it just so I can get to work. Having a 2nd vehicle has let me sideline the Wag when it was necessary. Plus, I don't have to live with 11 MPG every day.

[FSJ Guy]

How long is your commute? If it's under 30-40 miles RT, then an FSJ is doable, IMHO.

EFI won't get you much extra mileage (as already mentioned), but it will give you easy starting in ALL types of weather and temperatures and the driveability and reliability will be greatly improved.

On the highway, my Jeep gets about 13. In town, it sucks.... gasoline. About 10mpg in town. Even though yours is shorter and probably lighter, you are not going to get much better numbers, I'm afraid.

You CAN make it reliable for a DD, but it's hard to get much over 14mpg with an old, heavy brick on wheels.

[Jtruax3]

Ya my commute is 30 miles,half of that is country roads going 55-60 mph. 14-15 mpg I could definitely living with. I get that and some times a bit better in my wife's 06 commander with the 5.7 hemi so I'm use to it.Yes it would be great to get a lot better but I understand the wagoneer is the polar opposite of the pirus! Haha


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[FSJ Guy]

30 miles RT? No worries, then! LOL!

Shoot for 14mpg, be happy when you hit 12. LOL!

[Nikkormat]

Here's the biggest factor that no one seems to mention. What rpm's are you cruising at?
I got really lucky with my quadrajet, it is perfect for my 401 at my altitude. If I keep it under 45, with my foot just barely resting on the throttle, it sips fuel. At 65 - 70 on the freeway I can squeeze out 12 -13 if I keep my foot out of it and just cruise in the slow lane. If I speed up or drive sportingly at all it drops to around 9. At speeds above 75 my mileage drops to around 10 or 11 if I'm lucky. 7-8 if I'm passing or pulling up hill.
A well tuned edlebrock will do a real good job too. But the biggest factor in your mileage will be keeping your rpms down. 1800 rpm is a good target. The speed at which you can drive with those rpms depends on a lot of factors. Tire size, rear end ratio, manual vs automatic. Assuming you know your rear end ratio (we can probably help you find out if you don't) plug your drivetrain in here and see what speed you can cruise at low rpm. http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html

[letank]

Depending on the snow factor in the winter and its duration, the econobox is a good way to save the mechanicals of the FSJ and gas.
As said no engine swap will make you significant gain in the long run, you will not achieve a 20mpg.
Any inexpensive econobox will work, search for the appropriate years, as some have a tendency to have issues, and here in Calif we are doomed unless the vehicule is of year 75 or older...
I went the older honda civic, 35/40mpg. They are a dime a dozen.

[Lumpskie]

FWIW, my mpg is similar to Nikkormat's, on a 360 with a stock carb. Combined mpg is typically in the 11-12 range. The only time I check highway mpg was on fairly flat road (no high mtn passes). I cruised at exactly 75 mph for a little over 3 hours and got 13.3 mpg. I'm guessing if I had cruised at 65 mph, I could have hit near 14 mpg.