lazy version junkyard TBI?

[FSJ Guy]

I definitely want to keep my 360. I know the benefits of a 5.3, and am actually in the middle of a 4.8 TJ build. But I want my AMC 360 in the CJ7. That said, I want TBI. To buy all the pieces for this, even from a salvage yard, gets expensive. I have recently seen a couple "running" Suburbans with 3/4 ton axles. I'd love to have a 14b rear and can use the parts from the fron to make a 8-lug D44 front. I can get a few bucks in scrap for the body. If the engine and trans are decent cores I can get a little there. If the tcase is good I can sell it cheap. In the end, I almost get a TBI for free.

I will look into TunerPro better... maybe try to find some screenshots. It just seems daunting to think of spark advance, injecter pulsing, curves, etc etc. A carb is one thing... you set idle, you set mix, you play with it according to the "old school guys' suggestions". TPI is all new... like going from programming your VCR to engineering a Death Star.

Okay... more reading to do....

True. It's different. But it's not really new. There are tables that allow you to change the spark advance according to vacuum (MAP) which of course corresponds to engine load. Just like a vac advance distributor. Think of injector pulse constants as your carb jet sizing. Your fuel table is your electronic equivalent of your carb. It varies fuel input according to engine load (MAP) and speed (RPM). So you don't really have a lot of actual new things, just the same old things but with new ways of adjusting them.

Reading is good. : D

[Bill usn-1]

You may want to take a look here. http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/show ... p?t=102989
You will find a list of parts and services I offer for the DIY guy.
Though not mentioned, I have probably helped most guys on here at some point, successfully convert to EFI.
The key is knowing where to find the correct answer.
You will need chips, a chip programmer, tunercat or tunerpro software, a data logging cable and software(winaldl or tunerpro) and a some study time reading the FAQs on logging and tuning on the binderplanet.
Or
you pay someone like me to just burn you a chip once your system is properly working. Probably less money then just buying the equipment to burn the chips.

Even if you do an engine swap to a chevy, you will still need a new chip unless you transfer all the emissions and other sensors that aren't really needed.

[tdkask]

I didn't even think about needing to dump all of the emissions stuff. Makes perfect sense.

So... To be clear, the stock chop isn't reprogrammed? It's replaced? Then, is there a good ballpark burn to get me running and logging, then go from there?

Gonna need to get started reading reading reading.

What's your view on VSS? I have a sender that goes by my speedo gear that pulses a different pulse/rev than GM. Can that be used and accounted for? I want spark control. I am running a auto trans. Also, is there a way to program a "extra" data to output a signal for certain RPM ranges? Might be cool to control my OD that way.

[FSJ Guy]

I left the EGR on mine. I re-routed vac lines so that the air pump was always sending fresh air to the cat and not injecting it into the exhaust manifolds.

Most GM TBI systems use an ECM that has a removable/reprogramable chip that holds the data which allows the ECM to run various different engines. Technically, yes, it IS replaced. But it's replaced by a electronically re-programmable chip (that's the chip burning part of things). But what most people do is start with the stock GM 350 program. It's pretty darned close as far as displacement is concerned. It is usually enough to get the engine started and is a good jump off point for tuning the AMC 360.

VSS: I added one on mine and saw a difference. Some do. Some don't. Having a VSS will allow some ECMs to access some other techniques such as Deceleration Fuel Cut Off. But that's getting ahead of things.

Keep reading and asking questions. You're getting there! : D

[tdkask]

So, assuming I have a entire TBI from a 5.7 with harness and sensors and ECM, etc. ...

Is there a reasonable source (do you sell separately?) for the reprogramable chip? Is there a good starting tune for it, loadable by tunerpro,etc? Or just go with the GM burn to start, loaded on tunerpro, then adjust from there?

As for VSS, my sending unit is 16 PPE, I think. I think it's this one (http://m.summitracing.com/parts/atm-5291) that I had for an AutoMeter speedo. Will it work for a VSS adapter?

And as I understand, stackable bins allow me to load a few different profiles (performance, towing, etc) and switch as needed? Thanks again.

Too bad nobody near me has done this. It'd be nice to have first hand experience available.

[jaber]

Depending on where you are, someone probably is and doing it on a different car. There is a lot of info here also...

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inject ... ips-thread

Thats the link for TunerPro, but join and read, read, read...

[tdkask]

The more I read the more daunting it seems. Its like reading a calculus book when you are barely good with Algebra... only I aced Calc in College... haha

Bill, If I build the rest, can you provide a chip with a good starting point, and tech support to tune from there? What about stacking, for a couple different profiles (performance, economy, towing, etc)? Perhaps I just send you the ECM? I see a few different listings at http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/show ... p?t=102989 but I guess I'm not exactly matching all of the parts of any of that. I just need the chip installed (I could probably do it, but might fail, and trust in your experience) and burned, then tech support to tune/update as needed. Obviously, I'd need connector cable and software, too.

Do you offer other USN vets a discount? lol I'm retired AT1. Haven't been in WI since '97, though, and then only a few weeks. Beautiful there, though. I was impressed by the harbor seals and the American Eagles at the campground, and the dozens of rabbits running through the snow. Don't get much snow in GA. Deception pass was impressive too. Anyway, I digress...

I can send logs and (with moderate instructions) load burns from laptop. I just don't have the $1400 for a full kit from you. Wish I did.

Or did I overlook somewhere a "how to" that covers everything coherently? There's just so much out there... where does one begin? I've read yours here (http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/show ... hp?t=47254) and hope to re-read and re-read and get there.

Just looking for input/advice.

[FSJ Guy]

Remind me, LOL, what engine are you going to be running and with what t-case? That will help determine your VSS. For my NP229 transfer case, I used the 2PRS from Jags that Run:
http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/SpeedS ... meter.html

I had a bin switcher and stuff, but I honestly only found it useful for quicker tuning. I could load two (or more) different bins and then switch between them to figure out which one ran better. Once I settled on a tune, I never felt a need to have to change it for towing vs. highway driving, for example. But the switchable bin capability does make tuning seem easier and faster. YMMV.

If you want to play with tuning, you can get into that for under $300 or so. (Burner and an ALDL cable or an AutoProm which does both plus emulation, too) Otherwise, you will have to mail a chip back and forth for someone else to evaluate and burn/re-burn.

[tdkask]

The setups is;
1980 Cj7
AMC360 from '74 J10
32RH trans from '04? Wrangler TJ
Dana 300
D30/D44 w/3.73, 33's

future plans for HPD44/9" 4.56 gears, 37" tires

[FSJ Guy]

The guys over at gear head-efi might be able to help you on what VSS to use. There are lots of people doing TBI swaps into different vehicles there.

[243]

I used #2PRS from JTR on my CJ7/258, attached straight to the D300.

Ran better with the VSS than without.

[Bill usn-1]

If you would like to get straight answers from me, it's best to simply call me or email me or msg me thru the binderplanet.
I only stop in here on occasion to make sure guys stay on the right track.

If you read any of my stuff then you know I have done hundreds of conversions and help hundreds more with the DIY stuff, like on here.

I already have basic tunes for most common engines.
And I still use factory style chips in all my customers systems so there will be no problems down the road should any part or ECM goes bad. Simply buy a new one and reinstall the chips.

I don't do any one off parts. All parts can be replaced with factory and replacement parts.

Here's a link to some of the parts and services I offer.
http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/show ... p?t=102989

[FSJ Guy]

I used #2PRS from JTR on my CJ7/258, attached straight to the D300.

Ran better with the VSS than without.

Well, there you go. A straight answer from someone who's already done it.

[tdkask]

Well, that's a little different. I have a 360.

[243]

I have a 360 in my Cherokee, and JTR and Bill are out of #2PRS. According to JTR the company making the VSS stopped production and I don't plan to wait months for JTR to get them into production. After searching the last few days I found the next and cheapest option was Painless #60115, I contacted Howell but they wanted 150.00, I did not contact AFI but that may be worth a call.

If you are running a QT, the VSS attaches to the speedometer drive the same as the D300.

As far as the chip you have for the 5.7, the 360 will run and decent too, I drove mine a few weeks if I remember correctly. Bill has an AMC 360 chip ready to go that will be darn close to correct from the start. There was a noticeable improvement overall with the first AMC chip and after posting my log Bill has another chip on the way with some tweaks.

I am sure there are others on this board and elsewhere that can provide the same service and programming your own is also an option, but Bill helped me a lot with the work (data) on his website as well as personal responses to assist during the first install, my payback is buying his chips.

[carnuck]

I looked that up and Summit has it for $150 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/prf-60115

But what's the signal difference between that and Napa's Echlin VSS110? It's used in '88/89 Dodge trucks and 91-93 Wranglers. (ECH EC165 is the connector).

You need to get a adapter from the speedometer cable from an XJ (pre '91) to fit the original cable in or go with a newer speedometer cable altogether. (smaller end on the sensor for Wrangler cables)

[FSJ Guy]

Well, that's a little different. I have a 360.

But I thought you were running a D300? That's what I was talking about.

[243]

I believe the cost was 125.00 through Autozone, I would have preferred 75-85 but there appears to be a supply issue right now.

[tdkask]

I'm back on track now. The 258 vs 360, D300 v QT. I wasn't thinking VSS at that moment. I was still on chip burns. Sorry.

Yes. I'm 360/32RH (same as TF999, sorta)/D300.

[FSJ Guy]

I'm back on track now. The 258 vs 360, D300 v QT. I wasn't thinking VSS at that moment. I was still on chip burns. Sorry.

Yes. I'm 360/32RH (same as TF999, sorta)/D300.

No worries. : D

Bummer that the 2PRS is no longer being made. Maybe too many people are just jumping to 5.3 swaps. <shrug>

FWIW, you don't NEED the VSS when you do the initial install. Leave the wires in the ECM plug and you can always add it later. Your fuel maps won't need to be re-tuned either. But if you're like me, you'll always be messing with them anyway. LOL!