lazy version junkyard TBI?

[tdkask]

I have a '80 CJ7 with a 360 from a '74 J10 I installed recently, and have done a hybrid of sort distributor mod to. It has everything else stock in the engine, including the 2bbl intake and Holley 2500 (recent rebuild).

Unfortunately, I'm getting pretty sick of the carb. I wheel my Jeep on occasional steep inclines and promptly it stalls. When the weather changes I have to screw with the mixture. etc etc etc. I'm ready to go TBI, buttttt...

I'm cheap/broke/poor. I don'twant togo the aftermarket route, and I don't prefer to re-invent the wheel. I was hoping there was a psuedo-simple solution.

So basically, my question is whether there is a direct swap application for the TBI? Is there a GM truck (or car?) that I can look for to pull everything (except distributor) and install, and hopefully not require reprogramming, etc etc. Also, are there throttle bodies that will be suitable for a 360 with my specs, and chip already programmed suitably?

Additionally, if I want more power and go to bigger cam later, will I need to swap to a 454 TB, or just bigger injectors? Will the stock 2bbl intake and a 454 TB flow enough?

I understand that you guys have done tons and tons of work to get where you are and I'm just asking for an easy solution, but I don't have the budget to trial-and-error this as much as it might take. If there is a moderately direct tutorial or how-to, etc, I'd be elated. Some sites are just overwhelming to sort through.

so to recap:

1. New guy, clueless, with too many questions.

2. What year/application truck would have everything I need to swap in (uning my distributor)?

3. What is the best upgrade without swapping heads? (i.e. intake, throttle body, etc.?)

FWIW: Obviously I would enjoy any increases in output, though this 360 is kind of a lot for a CJ7, but value torque over horsepower. My main goal here is dependability and improved economy (if possible).

Thanks.

[Herk]

I figure I'll have between $350 and $500 into my conversion when done, and that includes a lot of new parts (fuel pump, sensors, etc...). My donor vehicle was a 1990 GMC pickup with 5.7L.

I don't want to reinvent the wheel either, so I suggest you read this thorough write-up. http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/show ... hp?t=47254

[tdkask]

Thanks.

I think I will buy the whole system from a single running 5.7 Truck.
I suspect that my biggest expenses after that will be fuel pump/regulator/returns.

[srobertsfsj]

Your biggest expenses (in no particular order) are going to be the TBI to AMC adapter, fuel pump, O2 bung welding, ECM modification (depending if you feel comfortable soldering yourself) and chip burning. I would recommend buying a new O2 sensor but you can get away with a used for at first. Also,, if you plan on using spark control you will need to buy an HEI module. Those can be pricey.

[tgreese]

This is about the cheapest/easiest conversion project that I've seen - $350 system in a Travelall -
http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/show ... hp?t=53524

He uses the Ford throttle bodies, which aren't as well supported or as wide-spread as the GM throttle bodies, but they exist.

Any conversion using GM parts will require that you reprogram the ROM (read-only memory chip) in the computer. Your 360 should run with the Chevy programming, but not more than that. You need to tune the computer to the engine, and that requires a chip programmer and ePROMs.

The Megasquirt has the advantage that you can program it with your laptop computer. I suspect going Megasquirt will be the about the same cost a 100% junkyard system, once you buy the chip programmer.

You don't need a new distributor. You can run Megasquirt as fuel-only at first, then add spark control as you like. Controlling the spark is more effective, but not required.

Read Will Marsh's series that I posted abouve, and you'll get a little more of an idea of what is involved.

[tdkask]

I won't have many mods to make to my distributor, as I have already modded it to HEI. I'll just have to swap to the 7-pin or whatever. Also, I don't mind soldering, I can make the adapter (I have lathe, drill press, etc etc) and can weld. I thought I read somewhere that the PCM could be burned from laptop with software and cable? I need a special programmer, then? Thanks.

[tgreese]

I won't have many mods to make to my distributor, as I have already modded it to HEI. I'll just have to swap to the 7-pin or whatever. Also, I don't mind soldering, I can make the adapter (I have lathe, drill press, etc etc) and can weld. I thought I read somewhere that the PCM could be burned from laptop with software and cable? I need a special programmer, then? Thanks.

I don't know that much about hacking the GM ECUs. The laptop controls the chip programmer, so you need a laptop to run the composition and control software, and the burner to put your results on the chip, under the control of the laptop. I don't think there is any way to escape some burner hardware except via Megasquirt, which eliminates the ePROMs entirely.

Binder Planet has an extensive FAQ that covers the chip programming - http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/show ... post752502

That would be a good place to start. There is a lot of discussion of this topic on the net.

[FSJ Guy]

It's easy to switch over to EEPROMS instead of needing a UV eraser for EPROMS. Not a whole lot of difference from Megasquirt in respect to needing a laptop to program.

www.moates.net has all the info you need to do the swap and sells the EEPROM burner and new (blank) chips for you.

http://www.gearhead-efi.com has al the files you'll need and a good group of smart people to answer your tuning questions.

For all this tuning, you will need to be comfortable on Windows laptop. I'm still running Xp. I don't know if Tuner Pro will work on the newer versions or not...

[AwesomeJ10]

For all this tuning, you will need to be comfortable on Windows laptop. I'm still running Xp. I don't know if Tuner Pro will work on the newer versions or not...

I got tuner pro and flash n burn to work on the Windows 8 development preview about 3 years ago. The difficult part (for me) was setting up the USB ports for such slow hardware such at Moates/7747 ECM.

[carnuck]

I wonder how well it would work (or IF it would work) with Linux Mint?

[sgtpoliteness]

My laptop runs Windows 8 and TunerPro works really well with it.

I figure I've got a good $600, at least, into my conversion. That includes the PCM, harness, throttle body, t-body refresh kit, new high pressure fuel lines, fuel pump, misc. wiring, harness from the same truck that supplied the PCM, all new sensors, VSS from JTR, blah, blah, blah. All the little stuff adds up quick if you don't already have it and want new stuff. I wouldn't ever call converting a carb'd car to DIY FI cheap or easy, but it's been a lot of fun to learn.

You might think about investing in a Truck Avenger or having a real good carb guy go through yours. There's a couple fellas on here who also live in Colorado, with our big altitude and weather swings, who swear by their carbs.

[FSJ Guy]

$600 +/- seems like a good estimate.

Nothing wrong with a well tuned carb, but even with an electric fuel pump, I still worry about vapor locking in high heat.... I'll be swapping over to TBI eventually.

[letank]

Some carb do really well in high altitude and steep incline. The major flaws are higher temp and altitude with the reformulated gas.
As a note, make sure that your fuel filter return line is positionned at 12 o'clock.

[tdkask]

I was thinking that maybe I'd just buy a whole truck or suburban that runs, maybe snag the 8-lug axles too, and have everything for the TBI. Then, once running, part out/scrap the truck. I have a suitable HEI distributor already. I'm more than capable of making adapters and soldering on boards/chips/harnesses, etc. I just wish I didn't have to mod the programming.

What do I get with just installing it all, but not changing programming at all?

[tgreese]

I was thinking that maybe I'd just buy a whole truck or suburban that runs, maybe snag the 8-lug axles too, and have everything for the TBI. Then, once running, part out/scrap the truck. I have a suitable HEI distributor already. I'm more than capable of making adapters and soldering on boards/chips/harnesses, etc. I just wish I didn't have to mod the programming.

What do I get with just installing it all, but not changing programming at all?

Supposedly it will run, but not very well.

If you really want bolt-on EFI, swap in a Chevy motor and use its factory systems. Then you won't have to tune it.

[Fleg]

I'm more than capable of making adapters and soldering on boards/chips/harnesses, etc. I just wish I didn't have to mod the programming.

What do I get with just installing it all, but not changing programming at all?

We are in the same exact boat. Doing the mechanical/electrical portion is no problem. The programming is what I'm stuck on. I've read all the how too's over and over and that portion just confuses the hell out of me. I'm not sure what to buy or what to do.

[FSJ Guy]

Think of TunerPro as a secret decoder mask. It takes the binary file and translates it into "regular" numbers and such that mere human morals can understand and change. Very little knowledge of hex formatting, if any, is required.

It can be VERY confusing when you first start out. Keep reading. Read some more. Get frustrated. Go back to tuning your carb. (LOL!) Read some more. Ask questions.

If you understand what a carb tries to do, you will understand what your TBI is trying to do. They do the same thing. But TBI does it electronically and (IMHO) much better than a carb.

If you're going to buy a truck for the swap, might was well get a newer one with a 5.3 motor and swap the whole thing over.

[Fleg]

My apologies to tdkask for hijacking his thread but say you have a fresh computer and were building a DYI fuel injection system with it. What do I really need to buy to mod it for use on my 360?

Everytime I see this question brought up the answers range from a $50 solution to a $500 solution.

[tdkask]

I definitely want to keep my 360. I know the benefits of a 5.3, and am actually in the middle of a 4.8 TJ build. But I want my AMC 360 in the CJ7. That said, I want TBI. To buy all the pieces for this, even from a salvage yard, gets expensive. I have recently seen a couple "running" Suburbans with 3/4 ton axles. I'd love to have a 14b rear and can use the parts from the fron to make a 8-lug D44 front. I can get a few bucks in scrap for the body. If the engine and trans are decent cores I can get a little there. If the tcase is good I can sell it cheap. In the end, I almost get a TBI for free.

I will look into TunerPro better... maybe try to find some screenshots. It just seems daunting to think of spark advance, injecter pulsing, curves, etc etc. A carb is one thing... you set idle, you set mix, you play with it according to the "old school guys' suggestions". TPI is all new... like going from programming your VCR to engineering a Death Star.

Okay... more reading to do....

[jaber]

One thing I dont see mentioned, is that Bill at Hamiltom EFI will work with you on parts. IIRC he can set you up with a chip that has a close tune for the 360 that will be close for a stock engine. E-mail him or check out his ad...

http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/foru ... .php?f=160