Drew's TBI Q&A/install thread

For everything related to using Fuel Injection in an FSJ.
User avatar

Topic author
TUDrewser
Posts: 1306
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:40 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ

Drew's TBI Q&A/install thread

Post by TUDrewser »

All right y'all. I'm venturing into the DIY TBI world. This thread is not intended to be a how-to, mainly because I don't know what I'm doing. But instead I'll use it as a central place for my questions.

To start, I've gone through BinderPlanet's FAQs about 3-4 times now, have read and re-read Jason, Glenn and Chris' TBI threads, Ethan's site a few times, and my Google searches are all showing visited links now...so I've pretty much read it all.

I bought the TB, harness, and 7427 ECU off a fellow forum member. He did a fantastic job labeling, and I just went through every wire last night to confirm labels, match to the diagrams, and sort of create my own list of all 7427 wires, colors and description.

Image

I'll be mounting the TB on an Edelbrock Performer intake:

Image

Finally, here's the wiring diagram I've come up with, based on Blake's 7427 conversion post and diagrams I've found (some of the colors were different on Blakes):

Code: Select all

7427	Color	Description
A1	BLK/WHT	ECM Ground 1
A2	TAN/WHT	ECM Ground 2
A3	LT BLU/WHT	IAC "A" High
A4	PPL/WHT	EST Ref High
A5	BLK/RED	EST Ref Low
A6	LT BLU/BLK	IAC "A" Low
A7	LT GRN/BLK	IAC "B" Low
A8	LT GRN/WHT	IAC "B" High
A9	DRK GRN	Injector "2" Control
A10	PPL	02 Sensor Signal
A12	TAN	Ground
A14	WHT/BLK	Diagnostic Test
A15	DK BLUE	TPS Signal
A16	DK BLUE	Injector "1" Control
B2	TAN/BLK	EST Bypass
B3	BLK	Sensor Ground (TPS and CTS)
B4	BLK	MAP Sensor Ground
B5	YEL/BLK	Transmission
B8	YEL	Coolant Temperature Signal
B10	LT BLU/BLK	Cruise Control Module
B12	GRY	Fuel Pump Signal
B13	LT GRN	MAP Signal
B15	DK BLU	Knock Sensor
B16	BRN	Linear EOR Valve (4.7L)
E1	GRY	EGR Control
E2	WHT	Transmission
E4	DK BLU	Transmission
E5	RED/BLK	Transmission
E6	BRN/WHT	Service Engine Soon Light
E8	YEL/BLK	Transmission
E9	LT GRN	Transmission
E10	TAN/BLK	Transmission
E11	BRN	Transmission
E12	DK GRN	A/C Clutch Signal
E13	PRP	Brake Switch
E14	GRY	5 Volt Reference (MAP)
E15	PNK	Ignition Feed +12VDC
E16	ORN	Battery +12VDC
F1	PNK	Transmission
F2	RED/BLK	Vehicle Speed Signal
F3	DK BLU/WHT	Vehicle Speed Signal
F6	GRN/WHT	Fuel Pump Relay Control
F7	LT BLU/WHT	Transmission
F8	GRY/BLK	Transmission
F9	TAN	Serial Datastream
F10	RED/BLK	Transmission
F11	WHT	EST Signal
F12	BRN	VSSB
F13	DK BLU	VSS Sensor wire
F14	GRY	TPS 5V Ref
F15	PNK	12v - Start and Running
F16	DK GRN/YEL	Charcoal Canister Purge Solenoid
ASSUMPTIONS I'M MAKING
----1. I'm using the optional knock sensor and VSS sensor NEVERMIND
----2. I'm keeping EGR in case I ever need to pass emissions NEVERMIND
3. With exception of EGR, I'm buying all new sensors (O2, Coolant Temp, Knock, and MAP). I don't want to troubleshoot a sensor not working any time in the near future.
4. I'm buying 2 new relays for same reason (ignition power and fuel pump)
5. Planning to go with E2000 fuel pump. I could be swayed to follow Ethan's post to convert to in-tank...
6. Time (at least chunks of time) is my biggest limiter. Money is my second. Dividing the work up into smaller chunks of time would be most helpful for me.

I'll put questions starting in my next post.
Last edited by TUDrewser on Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
1990 GW "saved by Jerry" edition
will e wrote:I guess life is better if you are not moving too fast.
User avatar

Topic author
TUDrewser
Posts: 1306
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:40 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Drew's TBI Q&A/install thread

Post by TUDrewser »

Ok, outstanding questions:

1. Am I correct that I connect VSS sensor (plan to get #2PRS from JTR) to pin F13 and other wire to ground?http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/SpeedS ... meter.html
2. Have a GM ignition module. What do I connect the P and N pins to?
3. GM Ignition module gets rid of the big block on my drivers fender, right? Can I swap that (with coil) before doing the whole TBI swap (assuming I hold off welding the dizzy)?
4. Is this the right plate I need to mount TB to Edelbrock Performer (2131): http://www.summitracing.com/parts/trd-2211/overview/
5. I have the charcoal canister purge solenoid and ECU connector off the truck. Do I need this? It's still wired into the overall harness.
6. I'm using an OEM style O2 sensor (well, OEM for the truck) that is 3 wire. I believe PPL wire goes to sensor, Orange comes from 12v (assume fused) and BLK on the connector goes to ground...yes?

I'm going to ask later how to wire up the fuel pump relay but will save that as I think this is enough for now :)
1990 GW "saved by Jerry" edition
will e wrote:I guess life is better if you are not moving too fast.

FSJ Guy
Posts: 1763
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:03 pm

Re: Drew's TBI Q&A/install thread

Post by FSJ Guy »

TUDrewser wrote:Ok, outstanding questions:

1. Am I correct that I connect VSS sensor (plan to get #2PRS from JTR) to pin F13 and other wire to ground?http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/SpeedS ... meter.html
IIRC, yes.
TUDrewser wrote: 2. Have a GM ignition module. What do I connect the P and N pins to?
They go to your distributor pickup. I believe P actually goes to the purple wire. It will run like poo if they're reversed.
TUDrewser wrote: 3. GM Ignition module gets rid of the big block on my drivers fender, right? Can I swap that (with coil) before doing the whole TBI swap (assuming I hold off welding the dizzy)?
You can swap the coil, but you can not use the 7 pin GM ignition module without the ECM.
TUDrewser wrote: 4. Is this the right plate I need to mount TB to Edelbrock Performer (2131): http://www.summitracing.com/parts/trd-2211/overview/
I *think* so….
TUDrewser wrote: 5. I have the charcoal canister purge solenoid and ECU connector off the truck. Do I need this? It's still wired into the overall harness.
Might as well leave it there. You can enable those features in your bin.
TUDrewser wrote: 6. I'm using an OEM style O2 sensor (well, OEM for the truck) that is 3 wire. I believe PPL wire goes to sensor, Orange comes from 12v (assume fused) and BLK on the connector goes to ground...yes?
Good question. Google only shows 4 wire schematics….

RE the knock sensor: I'd recommend NOT using it. When I talked to AFI, they said it gave more false knocks and didn't think that it was worth the hassle.
Ethan Brady

http://www.bigscaryjeep.com

Jeepless, but I still have a lots of old parts in my garage!
User avatar

babywag
Posts: 1217
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:29 pm
Location: Land of Fruit Loops & Coconuts

Re: Drew's TBI Q&A/install thread

Post by babywag »

TUDrewser wrote:Ok, outstanding questions:

1. Am I correct that I connect VSS sensor (plan to get #2PRS from JTR) to pin F13 and other wire to ground?http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/SpeedS ... meter.html
2. Have a GM ignition module. What do I connect the P and N pins to?
3. GM Ignition module gets rid of the big block on my drivers fender, right? Can I swap that (with coil) before doing the whole TBI swap (assuming I hold off welding the dizzy)?
4. Is this the right plate I need to mount TB to Edelbrock Performer (2131): http://www.summitracing.com/parts/trd-2211/overview/
5. I have the charcoal canister purge solenoid and ECU connector off the truck. Do I need this? It's still wired into the overall harness.
6. I'm using an OEM style O2 sensor (well, OEM for the truck) that is 3 wire. I believe PPL wire goes to sensor, Orange comes from 12v (assume fused) and BLK on the connector goes to ground...yes?

I'm going to ask later how to wire up the fuel pump relay but will save that as I think this is enough for now :)
1. Yes, need to enable this in the .bin - Set VSS not from DRAC
2. P = Purple , N= Not purple to the motorcraft distributor pickup wires.
3. No, you need an ignition module. You can wire up the GM module, but it's not going to work properly by itself.
4. No, you need a square bore to TBI adapter.
5. No, really don't need them, but could use them if you want.
6. No, pink ignition switched 12v, and ground....

If you're using a 7427 harness (you didn't mention) you don't need the conversion diagram, just a 7427 wiring diagram.
-Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag)
User avatar

Topic author
TUDrewser
Posts: 1306
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:40 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Drew's TBI Q&A/install thread

Post by TUDrewser »

I am using the 7427 harness, I just couldn't find a text based diagram of what each wire did...so I made my own from the conversion diagram.

For ignition module, I will wait and install together. But once I install the TBI system, then I will remove the stock ignition system, right? Do I just unplug it and leave the wires?

Finally, is this the correct adapter: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/trd-2 ... lications/
1990 GW "saved by Jerry" edition
will e wrote:I guess life is better if you are not moving too fast.
User avatar

babywag
Posts: 1217
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:29 pm
Location: Land of Fruit Loops & Coconuts

Re: Drew's TBI Q&A/install thread

Post by babywag »

That adapter may work, can't speak for the rear mount adapter though never used one.
Might have issue w/ throttle cable length?
Most I've seen used a centered mount of the TBI.

Lots of info here on the 16197427 many .bins, some hacks, wiring diagrams, etc.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inject ... rmation-OD
-Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag)
User avatar

Topic author
TUDrewser
Posts: 1306
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:40 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Drew's TBI Q&A/install thread

Post by TUDrewser »

OK, how about this one: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/trd-2210/overview/

And I looked over on gearhead-efi but never found a good one page wiring diagram (though I did find and use the multi page ones to make mine). Definitely plenty to read out there... Almost too much.

Sent from Tapatalk
1990 GW "saved by Jerry" edition
will e wrote:I guess life is better if you are not moving too fast.
User avatar

tgreese
Posts: 7118
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:31 am
Location: Medford MA USA

Re: Drew's TBI Q&A/install thread

Post by tgreese »

Looks ok.

Get yourself a piece of 1/4" aluminum and make one. The Transdapt plate I used for my 258 2100 conversion was pretty cr***y. Hardware did not line up very well. Sloppy aluminum casting - surfaces were level, but the bolt pattern was warpy from the inaccurate casting. Much better to make one from plate stock.

8"x8" plate, less than $10 - http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cf ... top_cat=60
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.

78 Arizona Chief
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:27 pm
Location: Gilbert, AZ

Re: Drew's TBI Q&A/install thread

Post by 78 Arizona Chief »

Is that the manifold you are using? If so, it is a non-egr manifold so how do you intend to keep the egr?

As for the tb adapter, you will want one that sets the tb in the middle of the manifold's carb mount. I am using AFI's adapter and the stock throttle cable is perfect. With the Performer manifold, the carb base height is higher than the stock one so the 1/4"ish thick adapter keeps the tb aircleaner surface mount at a decent height for hood clearance.

You are more brave than me with the DIY. Cheers.
Kevin
1978 Cherokee Chief: Parents bought new. 360/TH400/NOS Quadratrac, 44's/ARB's/4.10's, SOA, Shackle Flip, Alcan Springs, FOX 2.0's, 35" BFG KM2s, custom bumpers, 324,000 miles and counting...
User avatar

Topic author
TUDrewser
Posts: 1306
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:40 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Drew's TBI Q&A/install thread

Post by TUDrewser »

Isn't that the egr port on the back (left of picture)? If not, then I'm not doing EGR :) I don't have to pass emissions anyway, so no biggie, but i just thought next owner may want to. Oh well!

Sent from Tapatalk
Last edited by TUDrewser on Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
1990 GW "saved by Jerry" edition
will e wrote:I guess life is better if you are not moving too fast.

78 Arizona Chief
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:27 pm
Location: Gilbert, AZ

Re: Drew's TBI Q&A/install thread

Post by 78 Arizona Chief »

That black rubber mount at the back is PCV. No EGR there. I agree, no emissions, no biggie.
Kevin
1978 Cherokee Chief: Parents bought new. 360/TH400/NOS Quadratrac, 44's/ARB's/4.10's, SOA, Shackle Flip, Alcan Springs, FOX 2.0's, 35" BFG KM2s, custom bumpers, 324,000 miles and counting...
User avatar

Topic author
TUDrewser
Posts: 1306
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:40 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Drew's TBI Q&A/install thread

Post by TUDrewser »

Good to know. Less wiring too.

Sent from Tapatalk
1990 GW "saved by Jerry" edition
will e wrote:I guess life is better if you are not moving too fast.
User avatar

Renodemona
Posts: 917
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:55 pm
Location: Sparks, NV

Re: Drew's TBI Q&A/install thread

Post by Renodemona »

Neat! Good luck on your install. 2" of snow and showers off and on are keeping me inside today.
"Wait, what's on fire!?" KJ7TCT
--------------------------------------------------------------
1976 Cherokee w/t 'Susan' 401/TH400/QT(PT)
FiTech Go EFI, Edelbrock Performer intake
3" Rough Country Springs, HEI Dizzy
-------------------------------------------------------------
2018 Cherokee Trailhawk V6 'Sedna'
User avatar

Bill usn-1
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:23 pm
Location: Whidbey Island, Wa
Contact:

Re: Drew's TBI Q&A/install thread

Post by Bill usn-1 »

Most adapters out there are a compromise. That's why I developed my own line.
They may not be as cheap as the transdapt but I think they are a better product.

They're all shown in the FAQs on BP.

This is the 4bbl plate.

Image

Image
User avatar

Topic author
TUDrewser
Posts: 1306
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:40 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Drew's TBI Q&A/install thread

Post by TUDrewser »

You do have a very nice design with those. I was planning on getting one until I saw the TA one for half the price. Do you have performance numbers that show the difference or improvement yours has over the TA?
1990 GW "saved by Jerry" edition
will e wrote:I guess life is better if you are not moving too fast.
User avatar

jaber
Vendor
Posts: 3066
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:24 pm
Location: Chino Valley, Az.

Re: Drew's TBI Q&A/install thread

Post by jaber »

Awesome Drew. I am seriously thinking about replacing the 7747 on the Caddy with the 7427.
Jeff

'46 cj3a
'51 Willys p/u
'51 Willys Parkway Conversion
'74 CJ5
'75 J-20 Wrecker
'75 J-20 Cummins service truck
'77 J-10 p/u
'79 Cherokee
'88 Grand Wagoneer
http://s252.photobucket.com/albums/hh14/jeffaber/
User avatar

Topic author
TUDrewser
Posts: 1306
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:40 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Drew's TBI Q&A/install thread

Post by TUDrewser »

I thought the 7427 was capable of measuring intake air temp and/or MAF and use it in calculations. However, I don't see a connection for it. Am I mistaken? I honestly don't care a whole lot, just have heard people have added a MAF and had really good results.

In other news, my ebay board to read the ECU should be here Monday. Ordered O2, MAP, and coolant temp sensors on amazon today. Also ordered an air compressor as I'm taking the family up Four Peaks tomorrow :-bd
Last edited by TUDrewser on Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
1990 GW "saved by Jerry" edition
will e wrote:I guess life is better if you are not moving too fast.
User avatar

Topic author
TUDrewser
Posts: 1306
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:40 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Drew's TBI Q&A/install thread

Post by TUDrewser »

I'm wiping an old laptop right now and putting XP on for TunerPro. Just curious, does the ECU need 12v in order to connect to it? Constant 12v ok if so? I know it needs it to read sensors, etc...just didn't know if it needs it for testing.

Also, anyone rigged up an old computer power supply to provide the 12v? I've gone one that says it can provide 34A through the 12v rail. Would just be nice for testing in my office before heading to the garage.
1990 GW "saved by Jerry" edition
will e wrote:I guess life is better if you are not moving too fast.
User avatar

babywag
Posts: 1217
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:29 pm
Location: Land of Fruit Loops & Coconuts

Re: Drew's TBI Q&A/install thread

Post by babywag »

Better to use an old car battery vs. a power supply, a dirty power supply can cause less than desirable results.
The system would need 12v to be bench tested, as well as everything hooked up(sensors) including module, coil & distributor.

When hooked up properly spinning the distributor shaft should result in nice fat blue spark.
You can get those GM epoxy coils to jump a large gap makes for a cool light show.

The 7427 can do MAF, but it isn't a stock GM binary.
Some info here...I've done 2 of them on GW's.
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=165704
-Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag)
User avatar

Topic author
TUDrewser
Posts: 1306
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:40 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Drew's TBI Q&A/install thread

Post by TUDrewser »

babywag wrote:Better to use an old car battery vs. a power supply, a dirty power supply can cause less than desirable results.
The system would need 12v to be bench tested, as well as everything hooked up(sensors) including module, coil & distributor.

When hooked up properly spinning the distributor shaft should result in nice fat blue spark.
You can get those GM epoxy coils to jump a large gap makes for a cool light show.

The 7427 can do MAF, but it isn't a stock GM binary.
Some info here...I've done 2 of them on GW's.
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=165704
That's the EXACT thread I was thinking of, just couldn't find it! Thanks!
1990 GW "saved by Jerry" edition
will e wrote:I guess life is better if you are not moving too fast.
Post Reply