New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

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ShagWagon
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by ShagWagon »

Should I ga my plugs to .045 now?

I got msd distributor, coil blaster 2, msd6a ICM and accel 8mm wires.
87 Grand Wagoneer Rebuilt 360 by S&J, Fitech GO EFI 600, Novak in-tank fuel pump, Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift, BFG AT KO2 30", Dynamax Muffler, MSD distributor, MSD ignition, Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake, Elgin perf cam, Oil tube mod, Roller rockers, chrome molly lifters, HD alum radiator, Powermaster 150/100 alt, Alum HD water pump, Serhills tailgate harness, Cowl screen mod, Evil Twin grab handles, Rstep's custom AMC door lock knobs, all electrical works.

Topic author
ShagWagon
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Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:13 pm

Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by ShagWagon »

FSJ Guy wrote:I've always set timing with the trans in Park.

What does FITech tell you to set the base timing to?? That's what you want to set it to. But if you're going to time it at 2,200, "base timing" is a moot point.

Interesting that they want you to time it at 2,200 rpm. <shrug>
The Haynes books says to set at 12 degrees with in drive and at 600 rpms. What should I set it to in park at idle? Any different?

Fitech hasn't anything for amc360. Plus I got a Elgin edlebrock performer clone cam if that matters.

Says I should have an idea of base timing to cranking spark advance without kicking back. Whatever that means...
87 Grand Wagoneer Rebuilt 360 by S&J, Fitech GO EFI 600, Novak in-tank fuel pump, Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift, BFG AT KO2 30", Dynamax Muffler, MSD distributor, MSD ignition, Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake, Elgin perf cam, Oil tube mod, Roller rockers, chrome molly lifters, HD alum radiator, Powermaster 150/100 alt, Alum HD water pump, Serhills tailgate harness, Cowl screen mod, Evil Twin grab handles, Rstep's custom AMC door lock knobs, all electrical works.

FSJ Guy
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by FSJ Guy »

But what is confusing is that they're telling you to time the engine TWICE at two different rpms, yes?

That is the part that I'm confused about....
Ethan Brady

http://www.bigscaryjeep.com

Jeepless, but I still have a lots of old parts in my garage!

Topic author
ShagWagon
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by ShagWagon »

Ya seems like it.

Maybe they talking base timing just to get it running. Then rev it up and synch handheld reading to actual timing mark. Then handheld will control timing from there out.

They say it can only advance to 30 degrees adjustment. It minimum has to be set to go from. I'm assuming minimum to be 12 degrees at 600rpm in park.......
87 Grand Wagoneer Rebuilt 360 by S&J, Fitech GO EFI 600, Novak in-tank fuel pump, Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift, BFG AT KO2 30", Dynamax Muffler, MSD distributor, MSD ignition, Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake, Elgin perf cam, Oil tube mod, Roller rockers, chrome molly lifters, HD alum radiator, Powermaster 150/100 alt, Alum HD water pump, Serhills tailgate harness, Cowl screen mod, Evil Twin grab handles, Rstep's custom AMC door lock knobs, all electrical works.

FSJ Guy
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by FSJ Guy »

I guess..... Ha ha!!

That sounds like a really strange way of setting timing, but maybe it's to account for different setups. <shrug>
Ethan Brady

http://www.bigscaryjeep.com

Jeepless, but I still have a lots of old parts in my garage!

KJ Ryu
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by KJ Ryu »

Go sign up on chevelles.com and ask those guys. I found more info about my Sniper than on Holley's forum. They also have a bunch of info about the fitech system, there.

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/89-efi/
Ron

2005 KJ, Hit-n-Run, 2am 6-17-2012, Totaled. :mad:
1977 SJ J10, 4v360, T18, D20, 37x14s, SOA & SF on tons, still ugly.
1978 SJ Wagoneer, 4v360, QT, 33x12.5s, lift by Sawzall :-bd NOT Running :(
1977 SJ J10, SniperEFI 401, QT, D44s, 31X10.5s :fsj:
2006 KJ
Mars wrote:One man's trans leak is another's penetrating oil :D

Topic author
ShagWagon
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New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by ShagWagon »

Thanks Ron. I've been through there few times already last fall. They've gotten a lot more info since then as it seems a lot are putting them on their chebys :)

Anyhow I've probably just overthunk it.

I set my handheld base timing to 12* got it started and manually timed at 12* in park at 640 rpms or so per Haynes manual.

Idle spark advance read 16.5 on handheld in park, manual reading was 9* or so.

I got wife helper on gas pedal to 2200rpms handheld said 17* manual was like 20*. I adjusted the distributor till it matched about 17* with the handheld. Then locked it down. Took it for a test drive and it worked flawlessly. Plenty power from 0-70 ,40-70, 0-20 up steep hill etc.. did a couple gravel burnouts and some doughnuts. Felt good finally.

I now believe I'm synchronized with the handheld. Apparently I can now adjust anything on my handheld and it will control timing accordingly automatically. Yay!

My rotor doesn't seem to have a phase adjustment to it. Just fixed. Do I need a different rotor, or is it a phase less one or something I'm missing? That seems to be the last thing to do for getting it perfectly dialed in.

Image
87 Grand Wagoneer Rebuilt 360 by S&J, Fitech GO EFI 600, Novak in-tank fuel pump, Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift, BFG AT KO2 30", Dynamax Muffler, MSD distributor, MSD ignition, Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake, Elgin perf cam, Oil tube mod, Roller rockers, chrome molly lifters, HD alum radiator, Powermaster 150/100 alt, Alum HD water pump, Serhills tailgate harness, Cowl screen mod, Evil Twin grab handles, Rstep's custom AMC door lock knobs, all electrical works.

FSJ Guy
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by FSJ Guy »

As I've mentioned before, I wouldn't worry about rotor phasing. :- )

Excellent news that everything working right!!!
Ethan Brady

http://www.bigscaryjeep.com

Jeepless, but I still have a lots of old parts in my garage!
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REDONE
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by REDONE »

FSJ Guy wrote:As I've mentioned before, I wouldn't worry about rotor phasing. :- )

Excellent news that everything working right!!!
Definitely, your not trying to light 100 octane race gas under 12:1 compression at 7k RPM. If you're getting spark your fine.

For what it's worth, your phase adjustment may be at the pickup instead of at the rotor. If you can move the pickup relative to the reluctor without moving the distributor you can use that to adjust your phase, but then you'll have to reset your timing.
79 J-10 (Honcho Mucho) KE0LSU
304/Performance Fuel Injection TBI/MTA1/SP2P/Magnum rockers
T18/D20/D44s&4.10s/33" Mud Claws
Grizzly Locker Rear
4" front spring drop, 5" rear shackle flip
Chevy style HEI (ECM controlled)
Dolphin "Shark" gauges in a fancy homemade oak bezel
3/4 resto, rotting faster than I've been fixing it.

Topic author
ShagWagon
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by ShagWagon »

Should I increase my spark plug gap to .045?

I saw someone who had done a similar ignition upgrade and was suggested they increase to .045 as a happy thing to do...
87 Grand Wagoneer Rebuilt 360 by S&J, Fitech GO EFI 600, Novak in-tank fuel pump, Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift, BFG AT KO2 30", Dynamax Muffler, MSD distributor, MSD ignition, Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake, Elgin perf cam, Oil tube mod, Roller rockers, chrome molly lifters, HD alum radiator, Powermaster 150/100 alt, Alum HD water pump, Serhills tailgate harness, Cowl screen mod, Evil Twin grab handles, Rstep's custom AMC door lock knobs, all electrical works.
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REDONE
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by REDONE »

You can run a 40-45 gap with a blaster 2. The bigger the gap, the more resistance so the hotter the spark.
79 J-10 (Honcho Mucho) KE0LSU
304/Performance Fuel Injection TBI/MTA1/SP2P/Magnum rockers
T18/D20/D44s&4.10s/33" Mud Claws
Grizzly Locker Rear
4" front spring drop, 5" rear shackle flip
Chevy style HEI (ECM controlled)
Dolphin "Shark" gauges in a fancy homemade oak bezel
3/4 resto, rotting faster than I've been fixing it.
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babywag
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by babywag »

phasing is more important with EFI and a locked distributor. since the rotor position is now fixed you can run into issues w/o phasing.

with mechanical/vacuum advance the pickup changes position w/ advance. Now it is locked and the computer is managing advance.
Under certain conditions the rotor may be in a less than desirable position/distance from cap terminal.

It'll probably run fine, but you may want to consider phasing.
You can make the reluctor adjuatable, but MSD likely sells an adjustable rotor.
-Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag)

Topic author
ShagWagon
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by ShagWagon »

So I may have issue or I may not. What kind of problem issue should I look for. How do I tell if it's phased already or not? Or maybe I'm just lucky and it's in phase out of the box....

Sure wish you could order the distributor already locked out and have an adjustable rotor. They're 40 bux for an adjustable rotor.....

If I look at the relationship of the relictor to the fins on the shaft alignment would that tell me? Or do the sacraficial cap and drill a hole with a timing light and actually check the spark (which does kinda sound fun to do)?
87 Grand Wagoneer Rebuilt 360 by S&J, Fitech GO EFI 600, Novak in-tank fuel pump, Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift, BFG AT KO2 30", Dynamax Muffler, MSD distributor, MSD ignition, Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake, Elgin perf cam, Oil tube mod, Roller rockers, chrome molly lifters, HD alum radiator, Powermaster 150/100 alt, Alum HD water pump, Serhills tailgate harness, Cowl screen mod, Evil Twin grab handles, Rstep's custom AMC door lock knobs, all electrical works.
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babywag
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by babywag »

worst case it'll fire the next(wrong) cylinder.
misfire under heavy advance would indicate it needs to be phased.

there are many good posts/articles on web about it.

I ran mine for years and never had a problem.
then I decided to check it, and it indeed wasn't correct.
so I corrected it. it's your call.
you have a significant investment w/ EFI, new engine etc.
if it were me I'd do it...cheap insurance.
-Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag)

Topic author
ShagWagon
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by ShagWagon »

The only thing I've found so far to check it it through a drilled hole in the cap near #1. And check with a timing light.

Would be ok to drill a hole and cover it with a tightly fitted plastic plug afterwards?

Not sure what other caps fit the msd distributor base so I can go buy a sacraficial cap...maybe some one knows? There's no msd caps sold at my Mc parts locally...and when I call them and ask if any other will fit they like duh we don't carry msd....
87 Grand Wagoneer Rebuilt 360 by S&J, Fitech GO EFI 600, Novak in-tank fuel pump, Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift, BFG AT KO2 30", Dynamax Muffler, MSD distributor, MSD ignition, Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake, Elgin perf cam, Oil tube mod, Roller rockers, chrome molly lifters, HD alum radiator, Powermaster 150/100 alt, Alum HD water pump, Serhills tailgate harness, Cowl screen mod, Evil Twin grab handles, Rstep's custom AMC door lock knobs, all electrical works.
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babywag
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by babywag »

Try a stock MC duraspark cap? it may work well enough. I wouldn't sacrafice a new msd cap
-Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag)
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REDONE
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by REDONE »

Drilling a hole in your distributor cap won't tell you anything. First, at 650rpm idle, your rotor is spinning 325rpm which will be hard enough to see through a tiny hole. Second, phasing compensates for advance under load, so you'd need to be accelerating under load while looking at it. As much as I want to see someone try, i just like you to much to suggest it be you.
To phase your rotor you need to know your average peak advance. You cut that in half, then rotate your rotor clockwise that amount.
79 J-10 (Honcho Mucho) KE0LSU
304/Performance Fuel Injection TBI/MTA1/SP2P/Magnum rockers
T18/D20/D44s&4.10s/33" Mud Claws
Grizzly Locker Rear
4" front spring drop, 5" rear shackle flip
Chevy style HEI (ECM controlled)
Dolphin "Shark" gauges in a fancy homemade oak bezel
3/4 resto, rotting faster than I've been fixing it.
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babywag
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by babywag »

it allows viewing rotor to cap terminal alignment.
Phasing can be done without the engine running.
-Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag)

Topic author
ShagWagon
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by ShagWagon »

I saw this on utube https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aWMlNwGW0tM

Made it clear to me how to check see if it's lightning in the middle.

Plus it was cool to watch!
87 Grand Wagoneer Rebuilt 360 by S&J, Fitech GO EFI 600, Novak in-tank fuel pump, Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift, BFG AT KO2 30", Dynamax Muffler, MSD distributor, MSD ignition, Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake, Elgin perf cam, Oil tube mod, Roller rockers, chrome molly lifters, HD alum radiator, Powermaster 150/100 alt, Alum HD water pump, Serhills tailgate harness, Cowl screen mod, Evil Twin grab handles, Rstep's custom AMC door lock knobs, all electrical works.

Topic author
ShagWagon
Posts: 702
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:13 pm

Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by ShagWagon »

Fitech shows another way to do it http://fitechefi.com/fitech-uploads/201 ... inalV5.pdf

involving lining up with the reluctor exactly and rotating the rotor in the proper direction to line up perfectly if it's off.

I followed that to check and it's lined up perfectly. I will assume I'm phased correctly by this method and needs no adjustment until I can get a holy cap to test like utube says to.
87 Grand Wagoneer Rebuilt 360 by S&J, Fitech GO EFI 600, Novak in-tank fuel pump, Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift, BFG AT KO2 30", Dynamax Muffler, MSD distributor, MSD ignition, Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake, Elgin perf cam, Oil tube mod, Roller rockers, chrome molly lifters, HD alum radiator, Powermaster 150/100 alt, Alum HD water pump, Serhills tailgate harness, Cowl screen mod, Evil Twin grab handles, Rstep's custom AMC door lock knobs, all electrical works.
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