New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

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ShagWagon
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New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by ShagWagon »

Never done a new distributor before so have some questions.

Is locking out the distributor mean the same as locking out the centrifugal advance?

Fitech says I have to use a locked out distributor like MSD so I bought a new one with a MSD blaster2 coil. I'm reading through all the instructions and my head is starting to hurt.


Msd instructions say to remove all springs, weights, and advance stop bushing. Turn shaft 180 degrees, put advance stop bushing pin through plate, and put the nut and washer back on the advance stop bushing pin without the advance stop bushing.?

And should I put my old gear in place of the new gear at this time? Or use the new gear?

Gut the whole thing and rotate 180 doesn't make sense. Then I would have no advance curve and springs and advance stop settings to deal with? And wouldn't it mess up my rotor location that I would have just marked?

That seems to easy. To mess up.

And would I have to do the vacuum advance lockout on the canister.

Not sure if I have to do all this. But stand ready.

Thanks
87 Grand Wagoneer Rebuilt 360 by S&J, Fitech GO EFI 600, Novak in-tank fuel pump, Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift, BFG AT KO2 30", Dynamax Muffler, MSD distributor, MSD ignition, Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake, Elgin perf cam, Oil tube mod, Roller rockers, chrome molly lifters, HD alum radiator, Powermaster 150/100 alt, Alum HD water pump, Serhills tailgate harness, Cowl screen mod, Evil Twin grab handles, Rstep's custom AMC door lock knobs, all electrical works.
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REDONE
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by REDONE »

Yes, when you "lock out" a distributor, you turn it into a "cam position sensor". You don't want any kind of mechanical advance or vacuum advance telling the computer that the cam is in a position that it is not. The computer will determine the amount of advance and fire the coil by itself. The REAL position of the cam as measured by the locked out dizzy; and the engine load computed by the O2 sensor and MAF sensor give the computer RPM and engine load data so that it controls the timing curve.
79 J-10 (Honcho Mucho) KE0LSU
304/Performance Fuel Injection TBI/MTA1/SP2P/Magnum rockers
T18/D20/D44s&4.10s/33" Mud Claws
Grizzly Locker Rear
4" front spring drop, 5" rear shackle flip
Chevy style HEI (ECM controlled)
Dolphin "Shark" gauges in a fancy homemade oak bezel
3/4 resto, rotting faster than I've been fixing it.
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Tatsadasayago
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by Tatsadasayago »

Once the advance plate is locked, the vacuum advance diaphragm can't do anything even with vacuum applied so you can just remove the hose.
Also, in truth, the distributor doesn't care where the rotor is clocked to. It will work as long at it points to the #1 plug wire contact on the cap at TDC on the compression stroke.
And YES! Use your existing drive gear if it's not worn out or damaged.
1977 Cherokee Chief - The Blair Jeep Project III
A collection of parts flying in close formation

Topic author
ShagWagon
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by ShagWagon »

You guys are awesome! thanks.

I think I got this now.
87 Grand Wagoneer Rebuilt 360 by S&J, Fitech GO EFI 600, Novak in-tank fuel pump, Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift, BFG AT KO2 30", Dynamax Muffler, MSD distributor, MSD ignition, Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake, Elgin perf cam, Oil tube mod, Roller rockers, chrome molly lifters, HD alum radiator, Powermaster 150/100 alt, Alum HD water pump, Serhills tailgate harness, Cowl screen mod, Evil Twin grab handles, Rstep's custom AMC door lock knobs, all electrical works.
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babywag
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by babywag »

REDONE wrote:Yes, when you "lock out" a distributor, you turn it into a "cam position sensor". You don't want any kind of mechanical advance or vacuum advance telling the computer that the cam is in a position that it is not. The computer will determine the amount of advance and fire the coil by itself. The REAL position of the cam as measured by the locked out dizzy; and the engine load computed by the O2 sensor and MAF sensor give the computer RPM and engine load data so that it controls the timing curve.
It in no way turns it into a cam position sensor, by locking out advance. It simply removes the advance capability of the distributor.
-Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag)
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REDONE
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by REDONE »

It turns it into a device that detects the exact position of the valve train by sending the ECM a signal correlating with each cylinders exact TDC based on cam shaft rotation. If that's not a "cam position sensor" what is?
79 J-10 (Honcho Mucho) KE0LSU
304/Performance Fuel Injection TBI/MTA1/SP2P/Magnum rockers
T18/D20/D44s&4.10s/33" Mud Claws
Grizzly Locker Rear
4" front spring drop, 5" rear shackle flip
Chevy style HEI (ECM controlled)
Dolphin "Shark" gauges in a fancy homemade oak bezel
3/4 resto, rotting faster than I've been fixing it.

Topic author
ShagWagon
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by ShagWagon »

So after I do all that and re install. Will it matter that I rotated the shaft 180 degrees?

Or do I line it up to where my old distributor rotor was marked when I originally removed it.
87 Grand Wagoneer Rebuilt 360 by S&J, Fitech GO EFI 600, Novak in-tank fuel pump, Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift, BFG AT KO2 30", Dynamax Muffler, MSD distributor, MSD ignition, Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake, Elgin perf cam, Oil tube mod, Roller rockers, chrome molly lifters, HD alum radiator, Powermaster 150/100 alt, Alum HD water pump, Serhills tailgate harness, Cowl screen mod, Evil Twin grab handles, Rstep's custom AMC door lock knobs, all electrical works.
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Tatsadasayago
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by Tatsadasayago »

babywag wrote:
REDONE wrote:Yes, when you "lock out" a distributor, you turn it into a "cam position sensor". You don't want any kind of mechanical advance or vacuum advance telling the computer that the cam is in a position that it is not. The computer will determine the amount of advance and fire the coil by itself. The REAL position of the cam as measured by the locked out dizzy; and the engine load computed by the O2 sensor and MAF sensor give the computer RPM and engine load data so that it controls the timing curve.
It in no way turns it into a cam position sensor, by locking out advance. It simply removes the advance capability of the distributor.
In a sense it does. You of all people should know this.
1977 Cherokee Chief - The Blair Jeep Project III
A collection of parts flying in close formation
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babywag
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by babywag »

ShagWagon wrote:So after I do all that and re install. Will it matter that I rotated the shaft 180 degrees?

Or do I line it up to where my old distributor rotor was marked when I originally removed it.
No it doesn't matter, you install the distributor as normal.
Rotate engine to TDC #1 on compression stroke, pick a terminal on the cap for #1, and drop it in.
Hook up the plug wires, pickup wiring, etc.
Fire it up/set timing, configure FiTech as required.
-Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag)

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ShagWagon
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by ShagWagon »

Hrmmmm I was planning to drop it in and lining up the new rotor where my old rotor lined up, because I had already spent so much time getting it dialed in. Then putting the wires on the new cap in the same order and place. Then rechecking timing with my light after I get it running.

Would that be the stupid way to do it?

I'm working solo so I don't have anyone to put their finger on the hole while I crank today.
87 Grand Wagoneer Rebuilt 360 by S&J, Fitech GO EFI 600, Novak in-tank fuel pump, Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift, BFG AT KO2 30", Dynamax Muffler, MSD distributor, MSD ignition, Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake, Elgin perf cam, Oil tube mod, Roller rockers, chrome molly lifters, HD alum radiator, Powermaster 150/100 alt, Alum HD water pump, Serhills tailgate harness, Cowl screen mod, Evil Twin grab handles, Rstep's custom AMC door lock knobs, all electrical works.

FSJ Guy
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by FSJ Guy »

Use your distributor to rotate the engine to TDC. When it's pointing at the #1 plug, you're close to TDC.

Then install the new distributor (without rotating the engine of course!) and align the rotor to the #1 plug.

That will get you within the ballpark.
Ethan Brady

http://www.bigscaryjeep.com

Jeepless, but I still have a lots of old parts in my garage!
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Tatsadasayago
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by Tatsadasayago »

ShagWagon wrote:Hrmmmm I was planning to drop it in and lining up the new rotor where my old rotor lined up, because I had already spent so much time getting it dialed in. Then putting the wires on the new cap in the same order and place. Then rechecking timing with my light after I get it running.

Would that be the stupid way to do it?

I'm working solo so I don't have anyone to put their finger on the hole while I crank today.
Man up Shag. Any FSJ wrench worth his salt can hold a rusty pair of needle-nosed pliers with the left hand to jump the solenoid while holding a finger in number one with the other. :P
1977 Cherokee Chief - The Blair Jeep Project III
A collection of parts flying in close formation
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babywag
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by babywag »

Tatsadasayago wrote:
babywag wrote:
REDONE wrote:Yes, when you "lock out" a distributor, you turn it into a "cam position sensor". You don't want any kind of mechanical advance or vacuum advance telling the computer that the cam is in a position that it is not. The computer will determine the amount of advance and fire the coil by itself. The REAL position of the cam as measured by the locked out dizzy; and the engine load computed by the O2 sensor and MAF sensor give the computer RPM and engine load data so that it controls the timing curve.
It in no way turns it into a cam position sensor, by locking out advance. It simply removes the advance capability of the distributor.
In a sense it does. You of all people should know this.
Ok, in a very crude stretch sure It's a camshaft sensor...but simply locking it down doesn't change the signal or accuracy.
In this sense guess all SJ's with a MC have a camshaft position sensor :P
-Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag)
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Tatsadasayago
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by Tatsadasayago »

That was my point. The Fitech unit needs a signal so it knows where the crank and cam are positioned. I'm sure that a Cam or Crank sensor would be ideal but that would add unneeded complexity to a crude setup when using the signal from a locked down dizzy performs the same task for cheap.

I'm a Nerd and I get where you were coming from, but had to respond anyway.
1977 Cherokee Chief - The Blair Jeep Project III
A collection of parts flying in close formation
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REDONE
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by REDONE »

Tatsadasayago wrote: Man up Shag. Any FSJ wrench worth his salt can hold a rusty pair of needle-nosed pliers with the left hand to jump the solenoid while holding a finger in number one with the other. :P
Hahaha! I prefer to do the splits across the engine bay with a breaker bar on the crank in one hand and my pinky on the other hand shoved into the plug hole. :P
79 J-10 (Honcho Mucho) KE0LSU
304/Performance Fuel Injection TBI/MTA1/SP2P/Magnum rockers
T18/D20/D44s&4.10s/33" Mud Claws
Grizzly Locker Rear
4" front spring drop, 5" rear shackle flip
Chevy style HEI (ECM controlled)
Dolphin "Shark" gauges in a fancy homemade oak bezel
3/4 resto, rotting faster than I've been fixing it.
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babywag
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by babywag »

Tatsadasayago wrote:That was my point. The Fitech unit needs a signal so it knows where the crank and cam are positioned. I'm sure that a Cam or Crank sensor would be ideal but that would add unneeded complexity to a crude setup when using the signal from a locked down dizzy performs the same task for cheap.

I'm a Nerd and I get where you were coming from, but had to respond anyway.
The fitech just needs a signal to know when to fire coil. It has no idea where cam or crank is.
It doesn't need to.
Cam/crank sensors are to provide a waveform for a pcm to do mpfi (sequential) and multiple coil ignition.
This is just simple tbi...
-Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag)
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Tatsadasayago
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by Tatsadasayago »

Oh FFS...
1977 Cherokee Chief - The Blair Jeep Project III
A collection of parts flying in close formation

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ShagWagon
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by ShagWagon »

Success!

Went without a hitch till I realized I had the wrong distributor wire connectors.... took a little while to change all the connectors and crimp on the new ones.

It started so I let it warm up, threw the ebrake on, put it in drive, and timed it to 12ish at about 700rpm. Is that distributor base timing?

Took it for a test drive, all seems well.

Not sure what I can do now. Or how to do it yet. Have to synchronize it to the handheld or something at 2200rpm they say to look at handheld at that speed and look at timing advance meter on the handheld, then use my timing light to move distributor till they match up, then lock down the distributor. If that makes sense?

I think I'll need a helper to keep it at the 2200rpms so I'll have to wait till I get a lending foot.
87 Grand Wagoneer Rebuilt 360 by S&J, Fitech GO EFI 600, Novak in-tank fuel pump, Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift, BFG AT KO2 30", Dynamax Muffler, MSD distributor, MSD ignition, Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake, Elgin perf cam, Oil tube mod, Roller rockers, chrome molly lifters, HD alum radiator, Powermaster 150/100 alt, Alum HD water pump, Serhills tailgate harness, Cowl screen mod, Evil Twin grab handles, Rstep's custom AMC door lock knobs, all electrical works.

FSJ Guy
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by FSJ Guy »

I've always set timing with the trans in Park.

What does FITech tell you to set the base timing to?? That's what you want to set it to. But if you're going to time it at 2,200, "base timing" is a moot point.

Interesting that they want you to time it at 2,200 rpm. <shrug>
Ethan Brady

http://www.bigscaryjeep.com

Jeepless, but I still have a lots of old parts in my garage!

Topic author
ShagWagon
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Re: New MSD distributor setup for Fitech

Post by ShagWagon »

Time at base timing. Then rev to 2200 and just till it matches the handheld if I read it right for synchronizing.

Here the link
http://fitechefi.com/tech-posts/frequen ... n-control/
87 Grand Wagoneer Rebuilt 360 by S&J, Fitech GO EFI 600, Novak in-tank fuel pump, Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift, BFG AT KO2 30", Dynamax Muffler, MSD distributor, MSD ignition, Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake, Elgin perf cam, Oil tube mod, Roller rockers, chrome molly lifters, HD alum radiator, Powermaster 150/100 alt, Alum HD water pump, Serhills tailgate harness, Cowl screen mod, Evil Twin grab handles, Rstep's custom AMC door lock knobs, all electrical works.
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