What do i have here???

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tedlovesjeeps71
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What do i have here???

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

Ok all you fuel injection gurus, I need some help. Many years ago I had bought this Howell fi kit off a guy, used. He shipped it and I stuffed it in my storage while the Army moved me all over. The last couple days I've been trying to organize stuff and came across the box. I hate to admit that i had forgotten it's existence. :)
So... I don't remember what motor the kit is from, I'm thinking it was not a jeep, some kind of buggy with who-knows-what motor?
So the question is...what do I have? And the more important question is...
How do I make it work on the wife's 91 waggy??
Pics follow:

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babywag
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Re: What do i have here???

Post by babywag »

Looks like a Howell kit.

You'll need to verify what injectors are in the throttle body, IF OEM? they're color coded and have a part number on top of 'em.

You'll also need a chip for an AMC 360 if it came from something else? Pop the cover on the ECM and see what the chip is labeled.

I'd get a new fuel filter, test the pump, but if it has been sitting that long might want to just go new as well?, new o2 sensor, and verify the ignition wiring.
Howell has a couple different options, usually people order the fuel only version with a tach filter, and keep the stock duraspark controlling timing.
Maybe stretch out the harness and take pics of the connectors so I can see it better?
-Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag)
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tedlovesjeeps71
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Re: What do i have here???

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

Thanks babywag. It'll be a few days before I head back to storage but I'll grab pics then.
If I go hei, does that effect what wiring I use?
Hopefully I can make this work without spending the cost of a new setup. I looked on Howells site (it is a Howell kit, that much I know), and that stuff as parts adds up quick.

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babywag
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Re: What do i have here???

Post by babywag »

tedlovesjeeps71 wrote:Thanks babywag. It'll be a few days before I head back to storage but I'll grab pics then.
If I go hei, does that effect what wiring I use?
Hopefully I can make this work without spending the cost of a new setup. I looked on Howells site (it is a Howell kit, that much I know), and that stuff as parts adds up quick.

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IMHO there is absolutely zero benefit to going HEI, and yes the wiring would be a little different.
-Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag)
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tedlovesjeeps71
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Re: What do i have here???

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

I hear ya. Guy from Howell told me to pull the little plate on the brain box for the model chip.

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FSJ Guy
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Re: What do i have here???

Post by FSJ Guy »

Replace the fuel filter, maybe the pump if it's sketchy, and get a TBI rebuild kit (listed as carb kits, usually! LOL!). That should set you up well. If it was originally ordered for an AMC 360, the chip that is in the ECM should be good to go.

You'll need an O2 sensor bung for the exhaust and an O2 sensor, also. And do you have a MAP sensor and a temp sender? I didn't see those attached to the harness, but they may be there. Those aren't too pricey, even new. Although certain MAP sensors are $$$$. Hopefully your kit uses the cheap ones!
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babywag
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Re: What do i have here???

Post by babywag »

FSJ Guy wrote:Replace the fuel filter, maybe the pump if it's sketchy, and get a TBI rebuild kit (listed as carb kits, usually! LOL!). That should set you up well. If it was originally ordered for an AMC 360, the chip that is in the ECM should be good to go.

You'll need an O2 sensor bung for the exhaust and an O2 sensor, also. And do you have a MAP sensor and a temp sender? I didn't see those attached to the harness, but they may be there. Those aren't too pricey, even new. Although certain MAP sensors are $$$$. Hopefully your kit uses the cheap ones!
MAP is visible in the first picture right under the throttle body.
-Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag)
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Re: RE: Re: What do i have here???

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

babywag wrote:
FSJ Guy wrote:Replace the fuel filter, maybe the pump if it's sketchy, and get a TBI rebuild kit (listed as carb kits, usually! LOL!). That should set you up well. If it was originally ordered for an AMC 360, the chip that is in the ECM should be good to go.

You'll need an O2 sensor bung for the exhaust and an O2 sensor, also. And do you have a MAP sensor and a temp sender? I didn't see those attached to the harness, but they may be there. Those aren't too pricey, even new. Although certain MAP sensors are $$$$. Hopefully your kit uses the cheap ones!
MAP is visible in the first picture right under the throttle body.
That's good to hear. Yea!
So I was looking through my old emails last night and found where I had talked to the guy about the kit. It came from "the Rad Jeeper" and he had said it was on a buggy. The buggy ran a dodge 360. While we all know the two, Dodge vs AMC, are very different animals I think it should work. Guessing a new chip for the computer is the big need. Then whatever adapter to mount the TB to the intake. Then an O2 bung and sensor.
From there it should be a matter of laying out the harness and seeing if it fits physically, reaching where it needs to etc.
That sound about right?

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Re: What do i have here???

Post by srobertsfsj »

If its programmed for a dodge 360 I would think the timing curve for a dodge 360 would be different for an AMC. I could be wrong tho. Give it a shot!
Scott R.

'86 Grand Wagoneer "Super Chief" 5.3L drivetrain/ WT conversion / TT's Fabworks SOA and SF / 37x12.5x17 BFG A/T KO3 http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewtop ... 294&p=3364

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Re: RE: Re: What do i have here???

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

srobertsfsj wrote:If its programmed for a dodge 360 I would think the timing curve for a dodge 360 would be different for an AMC. I could be wrong tho. Give it a shot!
I'll get the chip number and run it by Howell. The email reply I got actually came from a guy named Matt Howell...maybe an offspring? That's kinda cool. I'm pretty sure the 2 are different firing orders etc. Also guessing the chip has a lot to do with all that stuff?
I wonder what a new chip, made for the AMC motor will cost? And if I change the cam shaft will it need a new chip for whatever the new cam profile is?
Side bar question, what's the general consensus for a good cam? Nothing to rumpity, just a better upgrade from the emission choked factory one?

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Re: RE: Re: What do i have here???

Post by babywag »

tedlovesjeeps71 wrote:
srobertsfsj wrote:If its programmed for a dodge 360 I would think the timing curve for a dodge 360 would be different for an AMC. I could be wrong tho. Give it a shot!
I'll get the chip number and run it by Howell. The email reply I got actually came from a guy named Matt Howell...maybe an offspring? That's kinda cool. I'm pretty sure the 2 are different firing orders etc. Also guessing the chip has a lot to do with all that stuff?
I wonder what a new chip, made for the AMC motor will cost? And if I change the cam shaft will it need a new chip for whatever the new cam profile is?
Side bar question, what's the general consensus for a good cam? Nothing to rumpity, just a better upgrade from the emission choked factory one?

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Just get a chip from Bill Hamilton.
http://www.hamiltonfuelinjection.com/contactus.aspx

Personally I wouldn't deal with Howell, I know some that have (for support), and they were less than pleased.
I have helped people with Howell systems, because Howell left them hanging, or what they offered did not resolve the problems.

A decent cam is the edelbrock grind, get a Melling MTA-1 or a Elgin CL912-PK same cam without the Edelbrock performer ripoff price tag.
-Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag)
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tedlovesjeeps71
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Re: What do i have here???

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

Thanks B-wag! Great info and right in line with my chea...uh, thriftyness. Haha

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Re: What do i have here???

Post by FSJ Guy »

This type of system won't care about firing order. That's taken care of by your distributor. Most Howell kits didn't have timing control. Of course, this one could be different.

I personally like starting with the stock Chevy 350 fuel map. It's a good start. Buying a Burn2 and a nice ALDL cable isn't all that much more $$ than mail order chips. But if you don't want to mess with tuning via your computer, mail order is your only option. :- /

Either way, good luck!
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ferrum
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Re: RE: Re: What do i have here???

Post by ferrum »

babywag wrote: I'll get the chip number and run it by Howell. The email reply I got actually came from a guy named Matt Howell...maybe an offspring? That's kinda cool. I'm pretty sure the 2 are different firing orders etc. Also guessing the chip has a lot to do with all that stuff?
I wonder what a new chip, made for the AMC motor will cost? And if I change the cam shaft will it need a new chip for whatever the new cam profile is?
Side bar question, what's the general consensus for a good cam? Nothing to rumpity, just a better upgrade from the emission choked factory one?

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Just get a chip from Bill Hamilton.
http://www.hamiltonfuelinjection.com/contactus.aspx

Personally I wouldn't deal with Howell, I know some that have (for support), and they were less than pleased.
I have helped people with Howell systems, because Howell left them hanging, or what they offered did not resolve the problems.

A decent cam is the edelbrock grind, get a Melling MTA-1 or a Elgin CL912-PK same cam without the Edelbrock performer ripoff price tag.[/quote]


I agree with Babywag. Howell was not helpful and hard to get hold of tech support that can help you. Troy must be really busy.
'76 Cherokee Chief
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tedlovesjeeps71
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Re: What do i have here???

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

So I finally got the box home and took a look at the chip stuff. Not sure what I'm looking at honestly but maybe smarter minds can help.
Is this a chip for a 318? Kit from Apr 2002??
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Re: What do i have here???

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

And here's the numbers off the injectors.
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Re: What do i have here???

Post by babywag »

Injectors are stock GM 5.7l and will work fine.
I suggest having them cleaned and flow tested, especially since they've been sitting and are unknown so to speak.
It's money well spent, and you'll have one less thing to wonder if ok.

The chip needs to go, Bill can set you up for a reasonable price, and IIRC he will also help you tune it if you buy from him.
Howell will simply send you a generic AMC chip, they won't help you tune it, it'll run ok.
-Tony
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tedlovesjeeps71
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Re: RE: Re: What do i have here???

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

babywag wrote:Injectors are stock GM 5.7l and will work fine.
I suggest having them cleaned and flow tested, especially since they've been sitting and are unknown so to speak.
It's money well spent, and you'll have one less thing to wonder if ok.

The chip needs to go, Bill can set you up for a reasonable price, and IIRC he will also help you tune it if you buy from him.
Howell will simply send you a generic AMC chip, they won't help you tune it, it'll run ok.
Awesome, just what I was hoping to hear. Thanks babywag!
Any idea (ballpark) what bill charges for a chip?
Whats it usually cost to have injectors cleaned and tested?

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Re: RE: Re: What do i have here???

Post by babywag »

tedlovesjeeps71 wrote:
babywag wrote:Injectors are stock GM 5.7l and will work fine.
I suggest having them cleaned and flow tested, especially since they've been sitting and are unknown so to speak.
It's money well spent, and you'll have one less thing to wonder if ok.

The chip needs to go, Bill can set you up for a reasonable price, and IIRC he will also help you tune it if you buy from him.
Howell will simply send you a generic AMC chip, they won't help you tune it, it'll run ok.
Awesome, just what I was hoping to hear. Thanks babywag!
Any idea (ballpark) what bill charges for a chip?
Whats it usually cost to have injectors cleaned and tested?

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Paid $38 for last pair I had cleaned.
Not sure what Bill's prices are, but he would be best solution IMHO.
Just give him a phone call. http://www.hamiltonfuelinjection.com/contactus.aspx
-Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag)
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tedlovesjeeps71
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: What do i have here???

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

babywag wrote:
tedlovesjeeps71 wrote:
babywag wrote:Injectors are stock GM 5.7l and will work fine.
I suggest having them cleaned and flow tested, especially since they've been sitting and are unknown so to speak.
It's money well spent, and you'll have one less thing to wonder if ok.

The chip needs to go, Bill can set you up for a reasonable price, and IIRC he will also help you tune it if you buy from him.
Howell will simply send you a generic AMC chip, they won't help you tune it, it'll run ok.
Awesome, just what I was hoping to hear. Thanks babywag!
Any idea (ballpark) what bill charges for a chip?
Whats it usually cost to have injectors cleaned and tested?

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Paid $38 for last pair I had cleaned.
Not sure what Bill's prices are, but he would be best solution IMHO.
Just give him a phone call. http://www.hamiltonfuelinjection.com/contactus.aspx
Cool. And where do i look for injector cleaning places? Carb shops seem to be disappearing. Should I have them clean the entire throttle body?

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