Deadhead style fuel system with GM TBI?

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Nikkormat
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Deadhead style fuel system with GM TBI?

Post by Nikkormat »

Has anyone run a GM TBI throttle body with a dead head style fuel system? Where the return fuel doesn't pass through the throttle body?

My fuel is picking up to much heat being constantly circulated through the throttle body and that is the only obvious method of removing that heat source I can think of.
Gabe, "reformed" Jeep hoarder.
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babywag
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Re: Deadhead style fuel system with GM TBI?

Post by babywag »

You could, but you would need to modify the TB, and obviously get an external regulator.

Do you have access to an IR temp gun?
Where is your pump located ?
Are you running an open element air cleaner? A snorkel set-up like stock, will cool the TB significantly vs. an open element air cleaner.
What are your fuel pressures?
What is the fuel line temps?
-Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag)

AwesomeJ10
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Re: Deadhead style fuel system with GM TBI?

Post by AwesomeJ10 »

keep in mind that vortec with WAY more fuel pressure and a returnless system is STILL vapor locking.

now that you have removed the hood, but the gas tank on the roof!
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ClovisMan
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Re: Deadhead style fuel system with GM TBI?

Post by ClovisMan »

What tank are you running? Did you do an s10 Blazer tank swap or still factory tank?
88 Grand Wagoneer - The Money Pit - 360/727/NP208 - SOA/SF - Lots of other stuff SOLD
78 Cherokee Chief - Copper - 360/TH400/Quadratrac - 4 inch BDS lift - 33 inch tires SOLD

Topic author
Nikkormat
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Re: Deadhead style fuel system with GM TBI?

Post by Nikkormat »

Still the factory tank unfortunately.

Yes I have access to an ir thermometer. I've traced the fuel lines back and forth. Fuel pump is mounted away from heat sources at the bottom of the skidplate. It stays around the temperature of the fuel. The throttle body on the other hand gets up to around 150-160.

I have an open element air cleaner but running hoodless still didn't offer a significant decrease in fuel or throttle body temps.

When it gets to hot to run, I can cool it down again by letting it sit and idle for a long time. The atomization of fuel through the nearly closed throttle blades at idle cools it down to around 120.

I can find no other sources of heat. So I want to mount a regulator like this: http://www.trickflow.com/parts/tfs-27001 below the vehicle.
Gabe, "reformed" Jeep hoarder.
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ClovisMan
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Re: Deadhead style fuel system with GM TBI?

Post by ClovisMan »

I bet if you went with an s10 tank and in-tank EFI pump all your troubles would go away.
88 Grand Wagoneer - The Money Pit - 360/727/NP208 - SOA/SF - Lots of other stuff SOLD
78 Cherokee Chief - Copper - 360/TH400/Quadratrac - 4 inch BDS lift - 33 inch tires SOLD

AwesomeJ10
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Re: Deadhead style fuel system with GM TBI?

Post by AwesomeJ10 »

I wonder if something like this would help us?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/dei-080125/overview/

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Nikkormat
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Re: Deadhead style fuel system with GM TBI?

Post by Nikkormat »

The issue is the fuel. The crap is going to boil the same in an s10 tank as it does in my tank.

Blake I'm going to get a cooler and some soft metal tube and make a fuel cooler. Fill it with ice and go.

Liquid CO2 sounds expensive.
Gabe, "reformed" Jeep hoarder.

Topic author
Nikkormat
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Re: Deadhead style fuel system with GM TBI?

Post by Nikkormat »

I wonder if air flow over a transmission cooler would be enough to cool it down?
Gabe, "reformed" Jeep hoarder.

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Nikkormat
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Re: Deadhead style fuel system with GM TBI?

Post by Nikkormat »

Is it possible that my boiling fuel could be unrelated? Maybe this is all just a pump priming issue?
Gabe, "reformed" Jeep hoarder.
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REDONE
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Re: Deadhead style fuel system with GM TBI?

Post by REDONE »

No, I think your fuel boiling within 25 miles of driving is the main problem you should focus on. It'd definitely not right, most likely causing your dying engine problems, and it's wasting a ton of gas, which is about to get a lot more expensive now that Saudi Arabia announced it's done flooding the market.
79 J-10 (Honcho Mucho) KE0LSU
304/Performance Fuel Injection TBI/MTA1/SP2P/Magnum rockers
T18/D20/D44s&4.10s/33" Mud Claws
Grizzly Locker Rear
4" front spring drop, 5" rear shackle flip
Chevy style HEI (ECM controlled)
Dolphin "Shark" gauges in a fancy homemade oak bezel
3/4 resto, rotting faster than I've been fixing it.

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Re: Deadhead style fuel system with GM TBI?

Post by AwesomeJ10 »

REDONE wrote:gas, which is about to get a lot more expensive now that Saudi Arabia announced it's done flooding the market.

crap

Topic author
Nikkormat
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Re: Deadhead style fuel system with GM TBI?

Post by Nikkormat »

I think someone may have sold me a tank of E85. It will boil (says so on the msds) at the temps I'm seeing. Tonight I'm draining the tank and buying some gas at Shell. I just ordered a Volvo fuel filter than holds a pint and a half of fuel. If I am loosing prime that should fix it.

The stock Ford setup with an E2000 is dual tanks with in tank pump feeding the E2000 and the switching valve contains a surge resivoir of gas.

The Honcho is set up the same as mine but the gas tank is like three feet above the tank. And it has no problems.
Gabe, "reformed" Jeep hoarder.
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REDONE
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Re: Deadhead style fuel system with GM TBI?

Post by REDONE »

Nikkormat wrote:I think someone may have sold me a tank of E85.
That's very likely. There was King Soopers around here that got nailed for that a few weeks ago. They blamed their distributor, but it took the news people doing an expose' before they owned it at all and started "working with those affected to make things right".
79 J-10 (Honcho Mucho) KE0LSU
304/Performance Fuel Injection TBI/MTA1/SP2P/Magnum rockers
T18/D20/D44s&4.10s/33" Mud Claws
Grizzly Locker Rear
4" front spring drop, 5" rear shackle flip
Chevy style HEI (ECM controlled)
Dolphin "Shark" gauges in a fancy homemade oak bezel
3/4 resto, rotting faster than I've been fixing it.

Topic author
Nikkormat
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Re: Deadhead style fuel system with GM TBI?

Post by Nikkormat »

Well then isn't it funny that that's where I get my gas.

I've got a buddy with a hygrometer gas test kit. I'll take him a sample.
Gabe, "reformed" Jeep hoarder.

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Nikkormat
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Location: Salt Lake City

Re: Deadhead style fuel system with GM TBI?

Post by Nikkormat »

It's also worth mentioning they sold me really watery gas a few weeks ago, around six gallons of the 18 I bought. Left me nearly stranded on Guanella pass alone at 1:30 in the morning.
Gabe, "reformed" Jeep hoarder.
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babywag
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Re: Deadhead style fuel system with GM TBI?

Post by babywag »

If you had e85 in the tank you wouldn't have made it far. No way your truck would run on e85.
e10 is ~14.13 afr required
e85 is ~9.85 afr required
It's just not possible w/o huge tuning changes.
Before chasing ghosts what is your fuel
pressure?
Get a gauge and tape it to the windshield.

Ditch the open element air cleaner only thing there good for is more noise and increased air intake temps.
Your above 120* would likely be your avg. air intake temps or lower with a stock type snorkel air cleaner w/ fresh air hose attached.
-Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag)

Topic author
Nikkormat
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Re: Deadhead style fuel system with GM TBI?

Post by Nikkormat »

There isn't a hole in the valance for a cold air hose on a 74.
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babywag
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Re: Deadhead style fuel system with GM TBI?

Post by babywag »

Nikkormat wrote:There isn't a hole in the valance for a cold air hose on a 74.
On my '73 I made a hole on drivers side next to radiator, should be similar on '74.
Or you could make a hole in cowl. I know I've seen the cowl done. Also others have done the driver's side of core support.
Pretty sure there is a write up on ifsja.org by plasticboob in fuel injection forum. His is a '74
-Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag)
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ClovisMan
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Re: Deadhead style fuel system with GM TBI?

Post by ClovisMan »

Nikkormat wrote:The issue is the fuel. The crap is going to boil the same in an s10 tank as it does in my tank.

Blake I'm going to get a cooler and some soft metal tube and make a fuel cooler. Fill it with ice and go.

Liquid CO2 sounds expensive.
The idea is that the intake pump is submerged in the gas cooling itself as it flows through so it never get a chance to "boil".
88 Grand Wagoneer - The Money Pit - 360/727/NP208 - SOA/SF - Lots of other stuff SOLD
78 Cherokee Chief - Copper - 360/TH400/Quadratrac - 4 inch BDS lift - 33 inch tires SOLD
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