MSD Atomic EFI: Tuning Tuning Tuning

For everything related to using Fuel Injection in an FSJ.
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Cataldo
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Re: MSD Atomic EFI: Tuning Tuning Tuning

Postby Cataldo » Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:11 am

Nice update. What kind of fuel mileage were you getting before?
Jay

1975 Jeep Wagoneer: 350 SBC, TH400, Q/T, D44's 3.54:1's. Hell Creek 4" lift with BFG KO2 33x10.5s.

1988 Jeep Wrangler: 305 SBC, TBI, 700r4, NP231c with SYE, 9" w/ Detroit and 4.11:1, 5.25" of lift, 31's. Done up as a Jurassic Park Jeep (Her's)

1973 Chevy Camaro: Vortec 350, 200-4r, GM 8.5 3.23's. 12.4 @ 108mph.

1965 Ford Mustang: Aluminum Headed 347, c4, 3.00:1 gears, High 12's (Her's).



Looking for 1 good factory Kidney Bean Mag in Southern California for use as a matching spare

GaJeep94YJ
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Re: RE: Re: MSD Atomic EFI: Step 1 - Modifying stock tank for in-tank pump

Postby GaJeep94YJ » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:25 am

surfwagoneer wrote:Do you not have enough room to put the tray sideways? That's the way its designed to go in, although it looks like it might be a tight fit for you.
I got mine all finished up today and pulled my old tank. Huge difference.

[img]https://im1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/002073688924/media/51070900869/medium/1464312727/enhance[/img]

I don't mean to bring something up from page 4, but whose tank is that on the left ?

Is there a write up on it? I don't want to get off topic, but I wanna know how you attached the lump in the upper left.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

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Dr. Marneaus
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Re: MSD Atomic EFI: Tuning Tuning Tuning

Postby Dr. Marneaus » Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:01 am

Cataldo wrote:Nice update. What kind of fuel mileage were you getting before?


I have achieved that mileage range before. But only once or twice. Coming from Reno o Las Vegas over the period of 10 hours traveling st 55mph the whole way I got almost 14.

Normally I was getting 10-11mpg depending. I haven't paid attention to my around town driving but will do so.
Well it ain't just the smoke and the traffic jam that makes me the bitter fool I am But this four-wheel buggy is A-dollaring me to death.
For gas and oils and fluids and grease, And wires and tires and anti freeze....And them accessories, Well honey, that's something else.

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Cataldo
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Re: MSD Atomic EFI: Tuning Tuning Tuning

Postby Cataldo » Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:16 am

Very congruent with my '75. I am usually 11-12 mpg Air Fuel ratio is set with a wideband.
Jay

1975 Jeep Wagoneer: 350 SBC, TH400, Q/T, D44's 3.54:1's. Hell Creek 4" lift with BFG KO2 33x10.5s.

1988 Jeep Wrangler: 305 SBC, TBI, 700r4, NP231c with SYE, 9" w/ Detroit and 4.11:1, 5.25" of lift, 31's. Done up as a Jurassic Park Jeep (Her's)

1973 Chevy Camaro: Vortec 350, 200-4r, GM 8.5 3.23's. 12.4 @ 108mph.

1965 Ford Mustang: Aluminum Headed 347, c4, 3.00:1 gears, High 12's (Her's).



Looking for 1 good factory Kidney Bean Mag in Southern California for use as a matching spare

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Dr. Marneaus
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Re: MSD Atomic EFI: Tuning Tuning Tuning

Postby Dr. Marneaus » Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:17 am

So, hoping to get the HEI installed this weekend. WIll begin working on Friday night. Unfortunately I need to run through a relay to give it 12v while cranking and running, so that's more clutter under hood.
Well it ain't just the smoke and the traffic jam that makes me the bitter fool I am But this four-wheel buggy is A-dollaring me to death.
For gas and oils and fluids and grease, And wires and tires and anti freeze....And them accessories, Well honey, that's something else.

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Dr. Marneaus
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Re: MSD Atomic EFI: Tuning Tuning Tuning

Postby Dr. Marneaus » Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:46 pm

HEI is in and running. Seems pretty decent, still felt the miss, got timing adjusted, haven't driven it yet, will get new quality plugs and gap appropriately tomorrow AM. Then time for a road test
Well it ain't just the smoke and the traffic jam that makes me the bitter fool I am But this four-wheel buggy is A-dollaring me to death.
For gas and oils and fluids and grease, And wires and tires and anti freeze....And them accessories, Well honey, that's something else.

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Tatsadasayago
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Re: MSD Atomic EFI: Tuning Tuning Tuning

Postby Tatsadasayago » Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:20 pm

Yanno...
That miss might not be caused by anything electrical. It's entirely possible it's mechanical, like a worn out rocker bridge/pedestal, bent pushrod, loose valve guide or even a lifter leaking down.

I'd love to put your jeep on an Allen Smart Scope for a few minutes and be there to hear the sounds.
Bet we'd find the cause in less time than it takes to swig a bottle of Mike's Hard Lemonade.
1977 Cherokee Chief - The Blair Jeep Project III
A collection of parts flying in close formation

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Dr. Marneaus
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Re: MSD Atomic EFI: Tuning Tuning Tuning

Postby Dr. Marneaus » Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:15 am

Alrighty!

So I drove it to town and back to pick up the rotors I had turned for the challenger.

I installed NGK platinum (they were like $.50 more than basic champion copper) and gapped to .045, cut crimped and installed some 8mm moroso wires.


It has felt a little weak. It was also stumbling if I stomped the gas from a stop or a roll. As flip had suggested earlier I've started playing with settings on my own a little to see how things go.

I reduced pump squirt from 20 to 15, which eliminated the bog/stumble on the pedal stomp. 10% was too low and it would almost die.

I also just barely lowered AFR to get the idle miss gone. Once everything was dialed In a bit better it was hardly noticeable when the AFR was 14 but I dropped it to 13.5 for idle and now I can't notice it at all.

Flips suggestion on the weakness under load was give a bit more power valve so that's my next test. Will drive it a bit today and see how it fares.

Now I can finally go in and clean up/cover my wiring.
Well it ain't just the smoke and the traffic jam that makes me the bitter fool I am But this four-wheel buggy is A-dollaring me to death.
For gas and oils and fluids and grease, And wires and tires and anti freeze....And them accessories, Well honey, that's something else.

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Dr. Marneaus
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Re: MSD Atomic EFI: Tuning Tuning Tuning

Postby Dr. Marneaus » Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:54 am

Also the hunting issue has not been present since the hey went in
Well it ain't just the smoke and the traffic jam that makes me the bitter fool I am But this four-wheel buggy is A-dollaring me to death.
For gas and oils and fluids and grease, And wires and tires and anti freeze....And them accessories, Well honey, that's something else.

Flip
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Re: MSD Atomic EFI: Tuning Tuning Tuning

Postby Flip » Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:27 pm

Tatsadasayago wrote:Yanno...
That miss might not be caused by anything electrical. It's entirely possible it's mechanical, like a worn out rocker bridge/pedestal, bent pushrod, loose valve guide or even a lifter leaking down.

I'd love to put your jeep on an Allen Smart Scope for a few minutes and be there to hear the sounds.
Bet we'd find the cause in less time than it takes to swig a bottle of Mike's Hard Lemonade.



Mmmmmm! Mike's Hard lemonade! :-bd

I'd bet you are right on the miss. Going to 13.5 at idle is covering something up. I doubt it is anything major. Could also be carbon build up, or a bit of a leak on the EGR.
I'm betting Dr. M. will want to do an Edlebrock Power Pack with cam, heads, intake, along with some nice headers pretty soon. He'll probably want to do some bore and stroke work as well. So that would take care of any mechanical issues.
You know, just an evening or two's work, and a bit of beer money. :D

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Dr. Marneaus
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Re: MSD Atomic EFI: Tuning Tuning Tuning

Postby Dr. Marneaus » Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:32 pm

Flip wrote:
Tatsadasayago wrote:Yanno...
That miss might not be caused by anything electrical. It's entirely possible it's mechanical, like a worn out rocker bridge/pedestal, bent pushrod, loose valve guide or even a lifter leaking down.

I'd love to put your jeep on an Allen Smart Scope for a few minutes and be there to hear the sounds.
Bet we'd find the cause in less time than it takes to swig a bottle of Mike's Hard Lemonade.





Mmmmmm! Mike's Hard lemonade! :-bd

I'd bet you are right on the miss. Going to 13.5 at idle is covering something up. I doubt it is anything major. Could also be carbon build up, or a bit of a leak on the EGR.
I'm betting Dr. M. will want to do an Edlebrock Power Pack with cam, heads, intake, along with some nice headers pretty soon. He'll probably want to do some bore and stroke work as well. So that would take care of any mechanical issues.
You know, just an evening or two's work, and a bit of beer money. :D


Lol!!!!

I do know that this engine isn't going to be long lived. But as long as it's running mostly fine, I've got more pressing things to spend time and money on in life.

The wag it came from had 155k on it with no known rebuild (who knows tho) when I bought it. I bought the engine for $225 and figured it would hold me over as a bandaid until I rebuilt my original engine in the near future (which was given away for free to a scrapper when I moved to reno after sitting in my garage).

That was 6 years and about 20,000 miles ago lol!!! It's still kicking.

But yes, in all reality there is a new or rebuilt engine in the not too distant future but for now I'm hoping I can get this one running as good as possible and keep it that way.
Well it ain't just the smoke and the traffic jam that makes me the bitter fool I am But this four-wheel buggy is A-dollaring me to death.
For gas and oils and fluids and grease, And wires and tires and anti freeze....And them accessories, Well honey, that's something else.

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Dr. Marneaus
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Re: MSD Atomic EFI: Tuning Tuning Tuning

Postby Dr. Marneaus » Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:40 pm

Anyway, drove it more today. Doesnt feel as sluggish, my butt dyno test provided the same result as previous, about 9 seconds to go from 50mph to 60mph on my hill near my house. Thats good.

I was noticing more of the hot start bog/stutter problem though. park, go into store, come out, fire it up, put it in gear and it would stutter, any time you gently or quickly pressed or tapped the gas it would bog for a sec. I came to a stop in one parking lot about 30 seconds after starting it up, and it stalled. Fired back up instantly.

Seems like within the first 60 seconds it was unhappy on hot starts, it still idled smooth, but if you tried to go, it was getting too much fuel or not enough or something.

I backed the displacement down to 390CID, and drove it some more this afternoon it seemed better.
Well it ain't just the smoke and the traffic jam that makes me the bitter fool I am But this four-wheel buggy is A-dollaring me to death.
For gas and oils and fluids and grease, And wires and tires and anti freeze....And them accessories, Well honey, that's something else.

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babywag
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Re: MSD Atomic EFI: Tuning Tuning Tuning

Postby babywag » Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:27 am

Again just my .02, fudging the numbers shouldn't be needed to tune it. As I said in a different post if it wants more fuel, give it more.
Personally I wouldn't do it by increasing CID.

babywag wrote:I would agree, but would just reset CID to 360, and bump fuel pressure up 5psi.
Increasing the CID depending on their programming might cause other issues.
Depends on how they calculate fuel needed, and generate the fuel map.
Telling it you have a 400 vs. a 360 will generate a fuel map that probably wouldn't be ideal.
Too much fuel could make it fall on it's face @ high load.
-Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag) '90 GW (aka JunkBucket) both fuel injected.

Flip
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Re: MSD Atomic EFI: Tuning Tuning Tuning

Postby Flip » Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:16 am

babywag wrote:Again just my .02, fudging the numbers shouldn't be needed to tune it. As I said in a different post if it wants more fuel, give it more.
Personally I wouldn't do it by increasing CID.

babywag wrote:I would agree, but would just reset CID to 360, and bump fuel pressure up 5psi.
Increasing the CID depending on their programming might cause other issues.
Depends on how they calculate fuel needed, and generate the fuel map.
Telling it you have a 400 vs. a 360 will generate a fuel map that probably wouldn't be ideal.
Too much fuel could make it fall on it's face @ high load.



Would only take about 15 minutes to do this, then some driving time.
Write down the tweaks as it is now, and you could almost A-B the change. :)
If nothing else, it will provide more insight to the way the ECU is programmed, and how the engine responds to the changes.

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Dr. Marneaus
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Re: MSD Atomic EFI: Tuning Tuning Tuning

Postby Dr. Marneaus » Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:43 am

Okay. Next time I have somewheres to drive, I'll adjust, but its been tucked back into the garage for the week, and I don't think I have anywhere to go other than work, so it'll prolly be this weekend.

On a side note, i've already put well over 1000 miles on it since submitting my registration which was in mid July, which is actually kind of a lot for me. Especially seeing as I can only drive it an average of 400 miles per month without passing my limitations for classic vehicle.

The flip side of that is that my real vehicle (not my company car) sits around so much that it has multiple black widows living up under it parked in the driveway. I think i ought to let it winter over before i have to do any repairs to it.
Well it ain't just the smoke and the traffic jam that makes me the bitter fool I am But this four-wheel buggy is A-dollaring me to death.
For gas and oils and fluids and grease, And wires and tires and anti freeze....And them accessories, Well honey, that's something else.

User avatar
Dr. Marneaus
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Re: MSD Atomic EFI: Tuning Tuning Tuning

Postby Dr. Marneaus » Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:35 pm

P.S. now my radio sounds like crap, super fuzzy and weak, fades in and out, and that super irritates me.
Well it ain't just the smoke and the traffic jam that makes me the bitter fool I am But this four-wheel buggy is A-dollaring me to death.
For gas and oils and fluids and grease, And wires and tires and anti freeze....And them accessories, Well honey, that's something else.

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babywag
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Re: MSD Atomic EFI: Tuning Tuning Tuning

Postby babywag » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:21 am

Dr. Marneaus wrote:P.S. now my radio sounds like crap, super fuzzy and weak, fades in and out, and that super irritates me.


How did you ground the relay for the HEI? Could have caused a noisy ground loop?
Maybe try switching it to an engine ground if you used a body ground.
You can also pick up a noise filter from a stereo shop or online if that doesn't take care of it.

I've heard that some people experience speedo problems in cases like yours? They oddly just stop working.
-Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag) '90 GW (aka JunkBucket) both fuel injected.

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Dr. Marneaus
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Re: MSD Atomic EFI: Tuning Tuning Tuning

Postby Dr. Marneaus » Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:00 am

babywag wrote:
Dr. Marneaus wrote:P.S. now my radio sounds like crap, super fuzzy and weak, fades in and out, and that super irritates me.


How did you ground the relay for the HEI? Could have caused a noisy ground loop?
Maybe try switching it to an engine ground if you used a body ground.
You can also pick up a noise filter from a stereo shop or online if that doesn't take care of it.

I've heard that some people experience speedo problems in cases like yours? They oddly just stop working.


I used a body ground. I'll try move it.

And yeah on the speedo. The crazy thing is how loose the connector on the back of the dash is. I mean... It's totally able to just fall off on long trips. It's so frustrating....it's the worst that I can't get my hand up in there to get it tight enough or apply loctite or anything....oh well I'll just have to make sure it doesn't fall off to often and fix it really quick if it does ;-)
Well it ain't just the smoke and the traffic jam that makes me the bitter fool I am But this four-wheel buggy is A-dollaring me to death.
For gas and oils and fluids and grease, And wires and tires and anti freeze....And them accessories, Well honey, that's something else.

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Tatsadasayago
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Re: MSD Atomic EFI: Tuning Tuning Tuning

Postby Tatsadasayago » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:28 am

The body/fenderwell grounding is often problematic because the metal to metal contact is somewhat precarious. There should be a 12 gauge ground wire coming off the negative battery cable to the core support or fenderwell. These connections are often compromised with age and create a resistance to ground. I've found that adding braided ground straps (Robbed from ex-cop Diplomats and Crown Vics) between the core support, fenderwell/fender, fenderwell to frame and engine, hood and doors to body were needed to kill RFI when running HF radio mobile. Similar principles apply for the DC ground path.
The same goes for the grounding lugs under the dash frame. They like to rust and corrode often, especially if the windshield or A-Pillar leaks water down the backside of the heater controls to the ground point.
Nothing a few minutes with a scuffing pad or wire brush and sealant won't cure.
1977 Cherokee Chief - The Blair Jeep Project III
A collection of parts flying in close formation

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Tatsadasayago
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Re: MSD Atomic EFI: Tuning Tuning Tuning

Postby Tatsadasayago » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:32 am

Dr. Marneaus wrote:And yeah on the speedo. The crazy thing is how loose the connector on the back of the dash is. I mean... It's totally able to just fall off on long trips. It's so frustrating....it's the worst that I can't get my hand up in there to get it tight enough or apply loctite or anything....oh well I'll just have to make sure it doesn't fall off to often and fix it really quick if it does ;-)

You might try a trick I've used in the past to keep the connector from falling off:
Push it on, then add a dab of RTV silicone on the outside between the connector and cluster and let it sit for a day.
If you need to remove it, it will come apart easily enough, but not come loose when driving and wheeling.
I lay on the driver's seat upside down, add a glob of RTV to a finger and reach up in there and dab away.
1977 Cherokee Chief - The Blair Jeep Project III
A collection of parts flying in close formation


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