Modified $40 1.5" lift S.F. (w/ Pics + part #) from IFSJA

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Blazer3664
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:00 am
Location: Vandalia Il

Modified $40 1.5" lift S.F. (w/ Pics + part #) from IFSJA

Postby Blazer3664 » Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:26 pm

THIS IS A TRANSFER FROM IFSJA, SOME EDITING FOR LENGTH AND I DID NOT INCLUDE NAMES OF ALL POSTERS.

My original shackle buckets where questionable for something that will be abused, so complete replacement was in order. They where also limiting my droop as the shackle would bottom out on the front lip of the bucket before the spring stopped droping.

However there are two things I dont care for with the "normal" SF.

1- I only needed ~1.5-2" out of it.
2- I never cared for the shackles hanging way down below the frame out back, call me pickey.

After looking around and not finding what I wanted, I decided to do my own version of a shackle flip.

So a trip to the parts store for a set of 1998 Ford ranger rear spring hangers (~ 3/4 down page for part #), and $40 later I had the only parts I didnt have laying around. These buckets are about one thick washer wider where the shackle goes, so you will need to find a large thick washer to take up the gap if you keep the stock shackles. Mine seemed to line up best with them on the inside.

On to labor, get the grinder out (dont have a plasma yet) with a cut off wheel. Drill and a few sizes of bits leading up to 3/8. BFH pry bar and a few wrenches.
Take the spring and shackle out of the old bucket, good luck by the way. This was the most "work" involved in doing mine. Finally gave up that set of shackles as they are a permenent part of the buckets now. Luckily I had a spare set.

Cut hammer pry cut bang curse bleed whatever you got to do, but git rid of those stock bucket and clean the area up. Now would also be a good time to inspect the frame. I found mine a bit weak on the bottom of both sides, and will patch them later.

Next was VERY CAREFULLY lay out where the new bucket needs to go. I am not going to give measurements because my setup is a little different and my measurements probably wouldnt work for stock springs. I moved mine forward some, and almost got them to far. I knew I wanted the shackles pointing back at the bottom a bit more than most would consider right. I dont have a whole lot of stuff, and the springs also are not really high arched, so there is not near as much movement that way on mine. With stock springs or different tire/axle combos that may be different. I did however need a lot more room for the shackle to come forward at the bottom for droop. That is why I decided on the shackle angle I went with, though it went back a few degrees more than I planned under its own weight.
I did compress the suspension and it will hit the bump stop well before it runs out of room for the shackle to swing.

After you are sure about your marks, drill, bolt with the supplied bolts, and put the shackle and spring back together in the "new" position and you have it.

The stock shackle is ~3" eye to eye. My SF puts the eyes basicaly opposite where they are stock instead of flipping it around the "frame" eye. We all know a shackle lift gets you half the overall movement of the spring eye so 1.5" give or take, as you can mount the buckets up or down on the frame 1/2" or better.

So a crusty before
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/a...ostest0005.jpg

and after
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/a...ostest0001.jpg
Last edited by Blazer3664 on Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
1978 Cherokee chief AKA = Butt Ugly
Current status = BACK under construction
modified body w/TJ flares
AMC 360, junkyard TBI, 4L80e
NWF doubler w/ upside down 203
SOA D60/14B-FF
custom shackle flip w/F150 springs
H1 wheels + (for now) tires
-----Coming Soon-----
snorkels, home brew OBA+OBW

Blazer3664
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:00 am
Location: Vandalia Il

Re: Modified $40 1.5" lift S.F. (w/ Pics + part #) from IFSJ

Postby Blazer3664 » Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:27 pm

Before
Image

After
Image



Are those shackles and the mount strong enough for a Gwag? they dont look nearly as beefy as the stock ones. I like the Idea and I am now seriously thinking about doing this soon. I just want to make sure that it will hold up on the trail.
Last edited by Blazer3664 on Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.
1978 Cherokee chief AKA = Butt Ugly
Current status = BACK under construction
modified body w/TJ flares
AMC 360, junkyard TBI, 4L80e
NWF doubler w/ upside down 203
SOA D60/14B-FF
custom shackle flip w/F150 springs
H1 wheels + (for now) tires
-----Coming Soon-----
snorkels, home brew OBA+OBW

Blazer3664
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:00 am
Location: Vandalia Il

Re: Modified $40 1.5" lift S.F. (w/ Pics + part #) from IFSJ

Postby Blazer3664 » Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:28 pm

Are those shackles and the mount strong enough for a Gwag? they dont look nearly as beefy as the stock ones.


I looked at using ones for a F250, they are almost identical except wider where the shackle mounts at. Having one in hand they are pretty solid. The bends and such really make a difference, where our stock ones are mostly flat steel. The shackles are stock Wag.

I worry more about pulling the bolts through the frame. Once I get it out to the farm I plan on welding them on and adding a "backer plate" on the inside of the frame. I may add a little bracing as well (or may just try as is and see), but I dont think they will be a problem.
I have a plasma cutter coming in the near future so it shouldn't be to bad to make a cardboard template and then trace it on some 3/16 plate to reinforce about a 2' section there.

Jim
1978 Cherokee chief AKA = Butt Ugly
Current status = BACK under construction
modified body w/TJ flares
AMC 360, junkyard TBI, 4L80e
NWF doubler w/ upside down 203
SOA D60/14B-FF
custom shackle flip w/F150 springs
H1 wheels + (for now) tires
-----Coming Soon-----
snorkels, home brew OBA+OBW

Blazer3664
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:00 am
Location: Vandalia Il

Re: Modified $40 1.5" lift S.F. (w/ Pics + part #) from IFSJ

Postby Blazer3664 » Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:30 pm

after I posted last night I did some looking into the 80-98 f150-f350 hangers. I found them online for $22 a piece. they are designed to work with 3'' leaf springs and if they can hold an 80s f350 i know the Wag will be good to go. thanks for such a great affordable idea. Im thinking about setting it up like you explained, I only need/want 1.5'' out of the s/f but the real gain will be in spring droop gained by maxamizing the action of the shackle. I was also thinking about pairing the BJs 1'' shackle in the front to help keep the truck level and add some much needed flex to the front end. after this im goint to be looking for 33s




Quote:
Originally Posted by blazer3664

and after
Image





Did the shackle flip cause you to bend your leaf spring? or is that from the old shackle bucket?


Its not bent, just a different spring all together.

The first pic was before I did anything, then I swapped in 97-03 F150 springs (4-5" lift) thinking it would be enough. Originally I planned on going SOA up front and bringing it back down 2-3" with different springs to keep COG low.

After I swapped the D60 in SOA on factory springs flipped (end for end) to move it forward 2" I liked where it sits, and it needs the extra room to flex. And HELLO FLEX it does.
I used one of my big billy bad ... ratchet straps to suck one side down, then jacked the other side till it was almost off the ground. When I measured to get a rough est. for shocks I found I may need limiting straps. Over 14" if it flexes that much on the trail. Longer travel shocks get $$$$ real fast.

Back on topic, after that I knew I needed to do something with the rear buckets cause they limit flex, and I needed more lift without blocks.

This was my solution.

Jim
Last edited by Blazer3664 on Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
1978 Cherokee chief AKA = Butt Ugly
Current status = BACK under construction
modified body w/TJ flares
AMC 360, junkyard TBI, 4L80e
NWF doubler w/ upside down 203
SOA D60/14B-FF
custom shackle flip w/F150 springs
H1 wheels + (for now) tires
-----Coming Soon-----
snorkels, home brew OBA+OBW

Blazer3664
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:00 am
Location: Vandalia Il

Re: Modified $40 1.5" lift S.F. (w/ Pics + part #) from IFSJ

Postby Blazer3664 » Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:37 pm

When you did the SF on the rear of the rear spring, did you lower the front mount(of the rear spring) also?
thanks


I dont see the need to move the front mount down unless you want more lift. And if you want more lift then get a shackle flip kit from BJs. The whole point of this shackle flip is that it provide no more than 1.5-3'' of lift, and you get ALOT more droop (compared to stock) during articulation. Not to mention its hard to beat the price!





Yep, what he said. I left the front hangers alone.
Only needed 2~3" more, and a fix for the OEM set-up binding. I also wanted to keep the shackles from hanging down below the frame very far.

Jim

blazer3664 this was a great idea! this is a great mod for guys like me who want to keep the stock axle set up but maximize flex. I made my mind up a long time ago i wouldn't go SOA without upgrading the axles. This Shacke flip is going to allow me to flip the rear shackle and gain all the benefits of flex without all the extra lift that I don't need. Thanks for the GREAT idea


My idea was inspired by another member here who used them for a stockish replacement. I shared my idea in hopes of providing a solution, or inspiration, for others here. I know I have "borrowed" a lot from other members, so I need to do my part "loaning"as well.

Jim
1978 Cherokee chief AKA = Butt Ugly
Current status = BACK under construction
modified body w/TJ flares
AMC 360, junkyard TBI, 4L80e
NWF doubler w/ upside down 203
SOA D60/14B-FF
custom shackle flip w/F150 springs
H1 wheels + (for now) tires
-----Coming Soon-----
snorkels, home brew OBA+OBW

Blazer3664
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:00 am
Location: Vandalia Il

Re: Modified $40 1.5" lift S.F. (w/ Pics + part #) from IFSJ

Postby Blazer3664 » Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:38 pm

Blazer I am very interested in seeing more about this SF, so wondering if the other members who you borrowed the idea from have any posts about their swaps.

Like yourself I am not interested in the lift that is associated with shackle flips, I am just looking to replace the old boxes and get a little more flex at the same time. As you mentioned the extra lift in the back can be offset by a set of 1" shackles from BJs so you have me very interested.

I would love to hear how they work for you, and any further comments you have regarding this swap, and any other posts along the same line.

Thanks in advance


Here is where I got the idea, post 12
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=140547

Quote:
I would love to hear how they work for you, and any further comments you have regarding this swap, and any other posts along the same line.

I am still a 205, doubler kit, and a couple H.A.D. drive shafts short of driving my rig yet.

I have flexed it in the driveway with a BIG ratchet strap and a highlift jack to see how it does. Much better than the questionable stock set-up. No binding of the shackles at all, just have to make sure the bolt in the spring end of the shackle don't stick out much at all. if it does it can catch on the bucket. I may turn mine around later, so the head of the bolt is toward the frame. The bad side, on mine anyway, I wont be able to put that bolt in or take it out unless the shackle is un-bolted from the bucket first, there isn't enough room.

When I get things finished up I will update this thread with my (hind sight) thoughts on this mod/fix. May be a while though, I am not getting any overtime anymore, and may be looking at some reduced hours over the winter.

Jim
1978 Cherokee chief AKA = Butt Ugly
Current status = BACK under construction
modified body w/TJ flares
AMC 360, junkyard TBI, 4L80e
NWF doubler w/ upside down 203
SOA D60/14B-FF
custom shackle flip w/F150 springs
H1 wheels + (for now) tires
-----Coming Soon-----
snorkels, home brew OBA+OBW

Blazer3664
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:00 am
Location: Vandalia Il

Re: Modified $40 1.5" lift S.F. (w/ Pics + part #) from IFSJ

Postby Blazer3664 » Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:41 pm

I put 4dr Exploder springs in mine and during my research found that F150 springs would probably work too but would give more lift than I wanted.
While it's not any easier to get these out of a U-pull-it, it was cheaper and I didn't have to cut anything off.
If you follow what I did (I don't remember who suggested it, but it's not *mine*), get springs from two different Fords and make sure they're both on the left side. The right side had much, much more corrosion and rust and was so much harder to remove.

ETA: It's right there (maybe why I subscribed to this thread since I never posted in it before?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by blazer3664
I swapped in 97-03 F150 springs (4-5" lift) thinking it would be enough.



Ran across this today, thought it might be handy for those thinking of doing this, or some other hanger mod.

Image

It will still be a while before I can test the function, as I have ran into some $$$ problems with work slowing down.
Unfortunately that means the Jeep is on hold again/still/longer
Still getting the hours to keep bills paid, just got to be VERY mindful of every cent right now.
.

On the good side, I did just trade a 700R4 I had laying around, for a 4L80e.
Yep OD trans and doubler should have a gear for every situation now.

Jim
1978 Cherokee chief AKA = Butt Ugly
Current status = BACK under construction
modified body w/TJ flares
AMC 360, junkyard TBI, 4L80e
NWF doubler w/ upside down 203
SOA D60/14B-FF
custom shackle flip w/F150 springs
H1 wheels + (for now) tires
-----Coming Soon-----
snorkels, home brew OBA+OBW

Blazer3664
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:00 am
Location: Vandalia Il

Re: Modified $40 1.5" lift S.F. (w/ Pics + part #) from IFSJ

Postby Blazer3664 » Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:46 pm

Quote:
I plan on doing this early next year to get rid of the blocks on the rear axle.

This shackle flip would work well to get rid of 1.5"-2" blocks in the rear, depending how you set it up. Done this way, longer shackles will lift it more now as well.
Quote:
What would happen if you used this in conjunction with the BJ's 1.5" shackle lifts front an back and combine it with an existing lift?

The shackle wont care if the springs are stock or lifted. You would gain an extra 1.5" of height. Sounds like a good thing to me, but 1.5" lift shackle would be 3" or so longer than stock. Thats starting to put a lot of leverage/stress on the mounts and frame( think pry-bar).

Might be OK, depending on your use. If you plan on beating it on the trail, I would probably stay with a little shorter shackle, like the 1/2" lift or MAYBE the 1" lift ones BJ's sells.

I dont care for long shackles for one of the same reasons I dont like blocks.
Why give your rig more leverage to tear itself apart? Shackles are a necessary evil (read as "pry-bar"), that I dont like making much worse (longer). That said, they are also one of the easiest parts to use for tuning the action/final ride height (within reason) of leaf spring suspension.

Quote:
What would that do to the driveline angles? Would a high steer be needed in the front in addition to a dropped pitman?

Not enough info for me to try and answer that part here.
Post up in the off-road section, with your current specs, and what you are thinking of doing. Link this thread so they know what SF you are referring to, and I'm sure everybody will be able to help you figure out the best way to get what you want done.

Jim


Someone talk to me about the Explorer or F150 spring thing. What years fit? How much lift over stock? Bolt in? Do they move the axle position?
Thanks
__________
____

Not sure on the Exploder springs, but ...... again the F150 info

Quote:
Originally Posted by blazer3664
I swapped in 97-03 F150 springs (4-5" lift) thinking it would be enough.


Different (metric) bolts and I shaved the front spring bushings with a grinder to make them fit.

The bolts,
pick a size, either open up the bushing or use washers welded to the frame to make the holes smaller.

The F150 bushings have a sleave that is just a little longer that ours stock. A few light passes with an angle grinder. Swipe, test fit, swipe ..........................
I left mine where you have to wiggle and tap them in, dont want them loose.
Also, mind the heat you are making when grinding. Dont want to ruin those bushings. I am going to see if I can find some replacement bushings that fit the spring, and have our bolt size later.

I used th F150 shackles, so cant speak to how they fit in the stock shackles.

Jim
1978 Cherokee chief AKA = Butt Ugly
Current status = BACK under construction
modified body w/TJ flares
AMC 360, junkyard TBI, 4L80e
NWF doubler w/ upside down 203
SOA D60/14B-FF
custom shackle flip w/F150 springs
H1 wheels + (for now) tires
-----Coming Soon-----
snorkels, home brew OBA+OBW

Blazer3664
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:00 am
Location: Vandalia Il

Re: Modified $40 1.5" lift S.F. (w/ Pics + part #) from IFSJ

Postby Blazer3664 » Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:51 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepfan93
Someone talk to me about the Explorer or F150 spring thing. What years fit? How much lift over stock? Bolt in? Do they move the axle position?
Thanks

I'm happy with the Exploder spring. Yes they bolt in easy enough, I may have had to take the grinder to them slightly, but nothing huge. Axle moves forward a tiny bit, I can't recall off the top of my head, it's not enough to notice once the wheels are mounted.
My only piece of advice is if you're buying used springs, take one from the left side of two different vehicles (unless you live in a country that drives on the wrong side of the road, in which case, two right side springs) because the crap that collects on the curb side makes more rust and thus it's more difficult to remove.

ETA: get new U-bolts, I got mine bent by a local big rig supplier for $28. I had to turn the bolt that holds the leaf stack around and I would suggest replacing that with a new one as well. IIRC these were $3 ea.


Well I'll see. I have a new pair of rear springs, but looking for a bit more flex or softer ride in the rear. I deal with a spring manufacturer directly so prices aren't a concern for new stuff. I thought if the Explorer or F150 had thinner leaves but more of them, I could get a better ride. Then again, I have 2 RC front springs with 2.5 AAL front and rear so I'm sre anything would ride better. But to be honest, my ride is pretty good. All the extra weight helps. Gearing up for an SOA so if anything I would rather the rear axle go back an inch. Just to not cut the door side of the wheel well.


I know bupkis about vehicle suspension.
The Exploder spring has an overload leaf, here's a comparison photo to the stocker for an 82 Limited:
Image


Just curious about the Exploder rear springs, it looks like 1st and 2nd gen exploders would probably all have the same rear suspension ('91-'01)
Is that what these springs came from?
1978 Cherokee chief AKA = Butt Ugly
Current status = BACK under construction
modified body w/TJ flares
AMC 360, junkyard TBI, 4L80e
NWF doubler w/ upside down 203
SOA D60/14B-FF
custom shackle flip w/F150 springs
H1 wheels + (for now) tires
-----Coming Soon-----
snorkels, home brew OBA+OBW

Coreyw454
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 7:54 pm

Re: Modified $40 1.5" lift S.F. (w/ Pics + part #) from IFSJA

Postby Coreyw454 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:11 pm

for guys that have done this... did you have to make any adjustments to the pinion angle?

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REDONE
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Re: Modified $40 1.5" lift S.F. (w/ Pics + part #) from IFSJA

Postby REDONE » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:23 pm

I didn't, but I have a truck and I also dropped the front spring mounts and used longer shackles. I actually felt it looked more better, since the pinion points slightly up, and the transfer case points slightly down.
Image
Image
79 J-10 (The Money Badger) KE0LSU
304/Performance Fuel Injection TBI/MTA1/SP2P/Magnum rockers
T18/D20/D44s/33" Mud Claws
Grizzly Locker Rear
4" front spring drop, 5" rear shackle flip
Chevy style HEI (ECM controlled)
Dolphin "Shark" gauges in a fancy homemade oak bezel
3/4 resto, rotting faster than I've been fixing it.


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