Will's $600 Grand Wagoneer (440 Mopar Swap)

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twisted frame
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Location: Massachusetts

Re: Will's $600 Grand Wagoneer (440 Mopar Swap)

Post by twisted frame »

Those look cool - they remind me of some custom vans and trucks I used to see as a kid in the early 80s. I love real wood touches in cars and those look sweet already.
73 J4000. 360, MC 2100, T18A, D20, stock closed knuckle Dana 44 front, 60-2 rear. Warn Lock-O-Matics, Warn/Belleview electric winch, true duals with glasspacks, old-school front diff skid plate, used 265 Toyos on 16" AR wheels.

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WT91
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Re: Will's $600 Grand Wagoneer (440 Mopar Swap)

Post by WT91 »

Well, here is the finished door panel product:

Image

Its not too bad, considering I'm terrible at carpentry projects they came out better than I had hoped.

I tore into the transmission and installed a manual valve body to be rid of my shifting issues. I know for a fact it was the TV linkage that was causing problems, but considering neither the stock 440 linkage, the stock wagoneer linkage, or the Lokar cable setup would work 100% I was just fed up with it. Now, I can manually row the gears and it drives like I would've expected it to.

We're getting really close to putting the Wag back on the road so I can drive it to work, should be this month sometime. Until then, just tying up lose ends like fixing my loose tailgate window and going from there.
  • 1990 Grand Wagoneer
    440 swap, 727 MVB, NP208, D44 F/R 4.10 gears ZIP locker up front Detroit out back. So much other stuff. Check out the build.
  • 1994 Ford F350 Crew Cab Dually
    7.3 PS, ZF5, 6.0 Intercooler, KC Turbo

ShagWagon
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Re: Will's $600 Grand Wagoneer (440 Mopar Swap)

Post by ShagWagon »

I'll rate your Jeep BA.

For Bad Ass!!

Loved the burnout vid!
87 Grand Wagoneer Rebuilt 360 by S&J, Fitech GO EFI 600, Novak in-tank fuel pump, Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift, BFG AT KO2 30", Dynamax Muffler, MSD distributor, MSD ignition, Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake, Elgin perf cam, Oil tube mod, Roller rockers, chrome molly lifters, HD alum radiator, Powermaster 150/100 alt, Alum HD water pump, Serhills tailgate harness, Cowl screen mod, Evil Twin grab handles, Rstep's custom AMC door lock knobs, all electrical works.

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WT91
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Re: Will's $600 Grand Wagoneer (440 Mopar Swap)

Post by WT91 »

ShagWagon wrote:I'll rate your Jeep BA.

For Bad Ass!!

Loved the burnout vid!
Thanks, I never figured my jeep would be "bad ass" haha. It is the definition of causality, so many parts of this project only happened because the opportunities quite literally fell into my lap. Its funny how life works that way, if you would've told me 3 years ago this is where I would be today I never would've believed you.

Bonus pic of her after a bath yesterday. Its been beautiful out here in NJ, and I was bored. Not that washing it makes it look any better, haha.

Image

I was bored again today, and decided to embrace the oldest and most time honored of baby jeep traditions: Big ole lights. I had a set of these Australian "Lightforce" lights I had won at a Jeep raffle years ago and decided to toss them on the front. I also had a set of stock ZJ Limited foglights that my buddy had tossed in the trash, so I used those as reverse lights. Not bad. (Ignore the dangley orange hose...thats my breather line, which snapped off the axle tube when the shock got mangled by the log on the previous page)

Image

Image

Image
  • 1990 Grand Wagoneer
    440 swap, 727 MVB, NP208, D44 F/R 4.10 gears ZIP locker up front Detroit out back. So much other stuff. Check out the build.
  • 1994 Ford F350 Crew Cab Dually
    7.3 PS, ZF5, 6.0 Intercooler, KC Turbo

twisted frame
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Location: Massachusetts

Re: Will's $600 Grand Wagoneer (440 Mopar Swap)

Post by twisted frame »

Dig those lights! Cool.

What part of NJ are you in? I occasionally visit relatives in Ridgewood.
73 J4000. 360, MC 2100, T18A, D20, stock closed knuckle Dana 44 front, 60-2 rear. Warn Lock-O-Matics, Warn/Belleview electric winch, true duals with glasspacks, old-school front diff skid plate, used 265 Toyos on 16" AR wheels.

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WT91
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Re: Will's $600 Grand Wagoneer (440 Mopar Swap)

Post by WT91 »

twisted frame wrote:Dig those lights! Cool.

What part of NJ are you in? I occasionally visit relatives in Ridgewood.
I'm in the Atlantic City area, theres a nice little group of us scattered from New Brunswick on down to me in Atlantic County.
  • 1990 Grand Wagoneer
    440 swap, 727 MVB, NP208, D44 F/R 4.10 gears ZIP locker up front Detroit out back. So much other stuff. Check out the build.
  • 1994 Ford F350 Crew Cab Dually
    7.3 PS, ZF5, 6.0 Intercooler, KC Turbo
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Skerrvydog
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Re: Will's $600 Grand Wagoneer (440 Mopar Swap)

Post by Skerrvydog »

WT91 wrote:
twisted frame wrote:Dig those lights! Cool.

What part of NJ are you in? I occasionally visit relatives in Ridgewood.
I'm in the Atlantic City area, theres a nice little group of us scattered from New Brunswick on down to me in Atlantic County.
I'm in Jersey over by the Ben and The Betsy (the bridges to Philly for the rest of you...) and if I ever get mine runnin I'd sure like to meet up in the Pines someday


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
79 Wagoneer - "Sally" - Work in progress
((SOLD))87 Grand Wagoneer - "Benjamin Brown, Plow Dog": The brown helps disguise the rust.
99 XJ Cherokee - "Jack" - DD

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WT91
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Re: Will's $600 Grand Wagoneer (440 Mopar Swap)

Post by WT91 »

Skerrvydog wrote:
WT91 wrote:
twisted frame wrote:Dig those lights! Cool.

What part of NJ are you in? I occasionally visit relatives in Ridgewood.
I'm in the Atlantic City area, theres a nice little group of us scattered from New Brunswick on down to me in Atlantic County.
I'm in Jersey over by the Ben and The Betsy (the bridges to Philly for the rest of you...) and if I ever get mine runnin I'd sure like to meet up in the Pines someday


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

What's wrong with her? My group the Mid-Atlantic full size Jeep Club always talks about having wrench o thons to help members and new people get their trucks on the road. I can't speak for the others but I know that I would be willing to come up and turn some wrenches crack a few cold ones.
  • 1990 Grand Wagoneer
    440 swap, 727 MVB, NP208, D44 F/R 4.10 gears ZIP locker up front Detroit out back. So much other stuff. Check out the build.
  • 1994 Ford F350 Crew Cab Dually
    7.3 PS, ZF5, 6.0 Intercooler, KC Turbo

Topic author
WT91
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Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Will's $600 Grand Wagoneer (440 Mopar Swap)

Post by WT91 »

Well, small update. Truck was running pretty good after fiddling with the magnetic pickup in the distributor when we had a minor catastrophe. The distributor shaft snapped in half! I had pinned everything when I installed the EFI, and after countless running hours something inside the dizzy came free and jammed the whole thing up.

Whoops

Luckily for me, Central Jersey Motor Parts on EBay was about 1.5 hours north of me and had a rare-ish Mopar 440 "Lean Burn" distributor. This was a late 70's Mopar experiment to try and get the big blocks to pass emissions, it was an analog computer controlled distributor that has no mechanical/vacuum advance system. The reason why they are rare is because they never work properly and always end up in the trash. I drove up, gave the man $100, and dropped it in the Jeep. We were rolling again, and without any WT91 handiwork to potentially screw everything up.

At this point I was feeling confident enough to drive the Jeep on the street, and took it to work. Didn't have any real problems minus the tiniest trace of hiccuping from the engine and some odd noises from the transmission. The hiccuping on the Engine side of things I'm almost positive is magnetic pickup related in the distributor, but I lack a .006" non-magnetic feeler gauge to properly air gap it, so I gapped it using a folded over piece of paper to get it "close". I will have to see if a local buddy has a plastic feeler gauge I can use. The transmission noises I'm lost on and I'm currently trying to locate a decent transmission guy to get some advice, but most of the shops around here are just parts swappers who wouldn't know what to do with my frankentrans.

Until next time.
  • 1990 Grand Wagoneer
    440 swap, 727 MVB, NP208, D44 F/R 4.10 gears ZIP locker up front Detroit out back. So much other stuff. Check out the build.
  • 1994 Ford F350 Crew Cab Dually
    7.3 PS, ZF5, 6.0 Intercooler, KC Turbo
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az chip
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Re: Will's $600 Grand Wagoneer (440 Mopar Swap)

Post by az chip »

Frankentrans. LOL.
'81 Cherokee Chief 81 WT Chief/MSD 6/Holley Sniper/ Rusty 4" Spring lift/ Bulltear oil adapter/K&P Engineering Oil Filter/ NP 208/ Serehill Light Harness/KC LED Headlights/ Evil Twin Fab Roof Rack and sliders/ Ross mirror mounts.

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WT91
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Re: Will's $600 Grand Wagoneer (440 Mopar Swap)

Post by WT91 »

So small project update...

The engine hiccuping is GONE! After a very frustrating trip out on some local trails fighting the hiccup, my mechanical engineer friend and I decided enough was enough and he wanted to see the Wag performing at its peak. So we limped her home and popped the hood and got started diagnosing. Well, turns out the ignition module was getting HOT. Super hot. For reference, it was mounted to a 6" piece of 2" aluminum angle, probably about 3/16" thick. That was bolted to the coil mount, which is on the AC compressor mount, which attaches to the front of the engine at the intake/water pump housing.

I've seen others mount theirs in similar spots, some mounted in even worse spots heat wise, and plenty of people say that the ignition module heat issue was blown out of proportion. Well, I'm not sure if its my cheapo Advanced Auto ignition module being overly sensitive or what, but on a hunch we relocated the module to the firewall by the windshield wiper motor. Holy cow, it's a whole new truck! For anyone keeping track of this and thinking about doing a TBI swap themselves, in this wrench turner's opinion you want to mount that sucker as far away from any heat source as possible and preferably to a good aluminum heat sink.

One issue down, two new ones arrive!

The alternator has been snapping belts since the Jeep first got back on the road, so we decided to address that issue next. The problem is the 160 amp alternator that I put in the Jeep is demanding more torque than 1 V belt can provide. So, we had to figure out how the motorhome belt system worked.

Time for a graphic...
Image

This is the motorhome belt routing. If you look towards the top driver side of the engine, there is an empty mounting plate there with 4 bolt holes. That is for an aftermarket York AC system that the Motorhome manufacturers used instead of the stock Dodge A/C system. The stock alternator had a 1 groove pulley, the stock PS pump had a 1 groove, the AC compressor a 2 groove, and the crank is a 3 groove.

:?: :banghead: How the heck does that even work?

So, we decided to space the alternator out from the engine a tad and toss a dual groove pulley on it. We luckily found a denso type alternator with a dual V belt pulley in the junkyard in a Ramcharger, so that was easy. We built a turnbuckle out of some rod ends and RH/LH nuts to tension the belt. We also mounted the alt so the mount sat behind the ear on the alt instead of in front, which gave us the push out from the engine we needed to line up both alt belts with both AC compressor belts. Bingo! Now we have 1 belt for Crank -> Water Pump -> PS Pump and two belts from Crank -> AC -> Alt. No more squeals and no more belt breaking!

But wait, I said there were 2 issues?

Well, the trans noises are getting more unfriendly. I am now hearing a buzzing sound that is dependent on engine RPM. Could be in any gear at any speed, but with higher engine RPM the buzz worsens. I'm beginning to believe my torque converter is on the way out. A local transmission guru who seems very knowledgeable about doing custom trans work (not just a parts-swapper) has agreed to toss the Jeep on his lift and give it a listen for me and go for a spin around the block to give me an idea at what I'm looking at. At this point, I'd be relieved if he said I had to pull the trans and replace a TC. At least we would know what was wrong and could fix it.

Until next time, here are two pics from that offroad trip mentioned at the top:

Image

Image
  • 1990 Grand Wagoneer
    440 swap, 727 MVB, NP208, D44 F/R 4.10 gears ZIP locker up front Detroit out back. So much other stuff. Check out the build.
  • 1994 Ford F350 Crew Cab Dually
    7.3 PS, ZF5, 6.0 Intercooler, KC Turbo

Berettaguy
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Re: Will's $600 Grand Wagoneer (440 Mopar Swap)

Post by Berettaguy »

Cool pics! Keep up the progress; you know the old saying that sometimes the journey is the destination.
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shimniok
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Re: Will's $600 Grand Wagoneer (440 Mopar Swap)

Post by shimniok »

Great rig and great pics esp the one of the mud yacht. :)

I have my GM HEI ign module on the driver fender with angle aluminum. Sounds like I might want to improve on that...? Thanks for the tips.

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Broken Photobucket image in my post? PM me.
'86 GW "Troubled Child" tc.wagoneer.org
360, TBI, 4" Skyjacker, 33" BFG MTs, WT D44+ARB, WT AMC20 + LockRight, CB 2m 6m 70cm, K0FSJ
The world's first Robotic Full Size Jeep!

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WT91
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Re: Will's $600 Grand Wagoneer (440 Mopar Swap)

Post by WT91 »

shimniok wrote:Great rig and great pics esp the one of the mud yacht. :)

I have my GM HEI ign module on the driver fender with angle aluminum. Sounds like I might want to improve on that...? Thanks for the tips.

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk
I'm not so sure why my module seems to be so sensitive to heat, plenty of others have them mounted straight to the intake->tbi adapter which in my opinion would be one of the hottest places to put it.
  • 1990 Grand Wagoneer
    440 swap, 727 MVB, NP208, D44 F/R 4.10 gears ZIP locker up front Detroit out back. So much other stuff. Check out the build.
  • 1994 Ford F350 Crew Cab Dually
    7.3 PS, ZF5, 6.0 Intercooler, KC Turbo

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WT91
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Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Will's $600 Grand Wagoneer (440 Mopar Swap)

Post by WT91 »

Not much to report on. I've been busy building this thing:

Image

Jeep has been sitting. Needs a new starter and still needs to get to the trans shop to figure out what the noise is. Will get to it once the camper is finished. That turned into a complete rebuild, whole new frame and all. Pretty much built a whole new camper.
  • 1990 Grand Wagoneer
    440 swap, 727 MVB, NP208, D44 F/R 4.10 gears ZIP locker up front Detroit out back. So much other stuff. Check out the build.
  • 1994 Ford F350 Crew Cab Dually
    7.3 PS, ZF5, 6.0 Intercooler, KC Turbo
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az chip
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Re: Will's $600 Grand Wagoneer (440 Mopar Swap)

Post by az chip »

Parked in front of a NAPA. Perfect.
'81 Cherokee Chief 81 WT Chief/MSD 6/Holley Sniper/ Rusty 4" Spring lift/ Bulltear oil adapter/K&P Engineering Oil Filter/ NP 208/ Serehill Light Harness/KC LED Headlights/ Evil Twin Fab Roof Rack and sliders/ Ross mirror mounts.

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WT91
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Will's $600 Grand Wagoneer (440 Mopar Swap)

Post by WT91 »

Very minor updates to the Jeep over the past few weeks. Mainly been putting all time and energy into finishing the Camper before winter. Finally gave up trying to get the 130amp durango alternator to work. Other mopar enthusiasts use them all the time, but with my RV belt pulleys and accessory brackets it was too much trouble for what it was worth. So out came the wallet and $150 later we have a stock replacement Powermaster 100amp alt that charges great and actually keeps the belt on. She's been running pretty good as of late, but on the way home from my buddy's shop yesterday toasted a wheel bearing. Luckily was right in front of my other buddy's house, so pulled in and parked it behind his garage for now. Waiting on a parts delivery to change all 4 bearings and fix a leaky axle seal up front.

There may be some big changes coming in the future if I land a new job I am currently one of the top applicants for, which will mean a small downtime on the Jeep as we relocate from NJ to Ohio and then we'll be getting back to it with more enthusiasm (and funds!). We are thinking of adding more motor goodies (performer rpm intake, comp cams roller cam, maybe 440source aluminum heads), cleaning out the rest of the electrical system, swapping to manual window doors and a manual tailgate window, and paint. Until then, nothing crazy to report.
  • 1990 Grand Wagoneer
    440 swap, 727 MVB, NP208, D44 F/R 4.10 gears ZIP locker up front Detroit out back. So much other stuff. Check out the build.
  • 1994 Ford F350 Crew Cab Dually
    7.3 PS, ZF5, 6.0 Intercooler, KC Turbo

Topic author
WT91
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Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Will's $600 Grand Wagoneer (440 Mopar Swap)

Post by WT91 »

So it's been almost 3 years since I last posted here. Got divorced, been concentrating on some other hobby stuff ( Renodemona you know what I'm talking about ) but for the last 6 months I've been slowly working on the Wag.

She's been a bitch the whole time I've owned her. Reliable is not a word even remotely used with my jeep, and it hasn't been for a long time. The 440 itself is fine, the TBI has always been janky, and the transmission gave up after about a year behind the big block. The truck hasn't moved since the very end of 2017, the Transmission came out at the end of 2018, rebuilt the trans with a friend in my garage and a youtube series by some australian guy as a guide (so we have no idea if it works or not).

Tired of half fixes and idiot college kid duct tape rig jobs, I wanted to really give the Jeep the love it deserved to try and fall back in love with it. Four major projects were in order at the start of this "falling back in love with the Jeep" endeavour:

First, the Cosmetics. My Jeep has never looked good. Honestly, its a woods truck, I don't care that it doesn't look good. But I wanted it to not look like a POS. I spent September -> November of 2019 chemically and mechanically stripping the truck down to bare metal, priming it with Red Oxide Farm Implement primer, then painting it with Valspar Tractor paint in Ford Blue. Originally I was going to use Massey Ferguson Grey (MF'ing Grey, hah) but after a very scientific trial comparing colors on the Jeep and asking my friends/extended family/etc to vote, I decided on Ford Blue. Then it was two-toned with Duplicolor Bedliner because I like the fine texture vs the thick globs of others. This part was the lowest priority, but I needed to work on what I wanted to work on...not what the Jeep necessarily needed to be driving again. Some people may think that's silly, but some of you absolutely understand what I mean.

My most recent exterior pic, with all the lights/etc back on:

Image

Yes, the pie plates are not chrome. They're actually 3d printed plastic, and yes the screws are in the wrong spots and I don't care. :-bd

Another pic with a better view of the paint job, slightly older:

Image

The custom decals I had made to try and emulate the 440 Magnum badges you'd find on an older Chrysler muscle car:

Image


Second, the Great Replumbening. All fluid lines have been replaced with Summit Racing 3/8 aluminum hardlines and -6AN stainless braided flex hose with black anodized fittings. I wanted this to be clean and last, the money spent wasn't a big deal to me if it produced a quality end product. Also as part of this was a return to carbureted, due to issues with the DIY TBI system. Eventual goal is a Pro-Flo MPFI kit, so the whole plumbing project is built with that in mind, hence the expensive billet fuel pressure regulator which was the cheapest I could find to go from 4~PSI up to 65PSI.

Image

Image

Image

The underside pic shows off my ugly motor mounts, the wiring rats nest everywhere, the surface rust on literally everything. Please ignore. The Jeep hasn't been moved in 2 years, give it a break. The motor mounts (like many things on this Truck i'm currently trying to address) I'm not happy with and I want to completely do-over, I'll get there.

The Third thing that needed doing was the transmission. Its been rebuilt and is currently re-installed, but I have no clue if it works right. It's got fluid in it and isn't leaking yet, so that's a plus.

The final thing is electrical. I hate all the electrical stuff in this Jeep. I long for the simplicity of manual windows and locks. Currently I'm at this stage of the project. I am using the 1990 TSM to trim out unused circuits all over the Jeep and remove superfluous equipment like the fire hazard rear wiper and defroster, the overhead console junk, the electric mirror crap that never worked, etc. All wires are being removed "properly" all the way from their beginning to their end including pins in master connectors. The engine bay is being rewired with this guy I got on Ebay/Amazon (Amazon sells it but due to COVID it was faster shipping to get it from ebay)

https://www.amazon.com/ONLINE-LED-STORE ... 07MR64XK1/

The idea is to use the original Jeep "yellow wire" to act as a relay trigger, instead of getting spliced 47 times to feed different key on loads. So in that 6 gang relay box will be Fuel Pump, Electric Choke, Ignition Coil, Alternator Field, and thats all I can think of right this second. Two extras could be used for accessories. In the future when I go back to EFI, the Choke circuit can power the EFI computer.

Thats all for now. Dont know how often I'll be back here to update, but I will drop in from time to time.
  • 1990 Grand Wagoneer
    440 swap, 727 MVB, NP208, D44 F/R 4.10 gears ZIP locker up front Detroit out back. So much other stuff. Check out the build.
  • 1994 Ford F350 Crew Cab Dually
    7.3 PS, ZF5, 6.0 Intercooler, KC Turbo

bigun
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Location: Mountainair, NM

Re: Will's $600 Grand Wagoneer (440 Mopar Swap)

Post by bigun »

Thanks for the update someday I need to take a picture of the motor mount my dad and brother made to put a 289 in my 64 F-100. They didn't know you could order a universal from JC Whitney

Topic author
WT91
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Will's $600 Grand Wagoneer (440 Mopar Swap)

Post by WT91 »

I've been really pushing hard on the wagoneer the last two weeks with this Corona virus situation keeping me around the house. Yesterday was the first time putting the rebuilt transmission in gear and it successfully moves forward and backward.

Got the new wiring system pretty much buttoned up. Using a combination of blue sea systems fuse panels and online led relay box to try and make the engine bay a little bit more tidy and a little bit less likely to catch on fire. The trucks original fusible links which were cut out by the previous owner now run to 30 amp fuses. The original yellow wire from the stock ignition system which is the main key on signal now is used to trigger a number of Bosch relays to supply power instead of being spliced four times to direct feed the loads. There are key on relays for the Mopar voltage regulator which powers the power master alternator, the ignition module, and the electric fuel pump. There are three empty relay spots for future add-ons, one of them is already set aside for the electric choke circuit once I get those parts for my Edelbrock 1406 carburetor which is currently missing the choke housing and linkages.

Ignition was originally going to be provided by a summit racing Mopar electronic ignition kit designed to drop into older Mopar big blocks that may have come originally with points. After a lot of headaches we couldn't get the truck to run right so I climbed up into the attic above the garage and came down with a handful of four-pin GM HEI modules. We ripped out the Mopar junk and wired the HEI module up and she purrs like a kitten now.

I am constantly amazed at how poorly these trucks were built from the factory. When going through the electrical wiring I could not believe the kind of stuff that passed QC back in 1989. It's no surprise that this truck had constant burnouts with how haphazard the wiring was. Now everything is properly fused and protected and the wiring circuits make a little bit more sense.

Just ordered my complete set of ABS interior panels from meninblack here on FSJN. Can't wait to get those in. Looking at a headliner that I found on eBay from a company called REM. My truck when I very first got it 10 years ago the headliner board was moldy and disintegrating and disgusting so it was ripped out and I have not really had a headliner since. Even if the REM headliner is not the best for how cheap it is it will definitely be better than nothing.

I will come back and update this post with pictures. Today's project is to go over the brake system and make sure that the truck is actually safe for its first real test drive around the block.
  • 1990 Grand Wagoneer
    440 swap, 727 MVB, NP208, D44 F/R 4.10 gears ZIP locker up front Detroit out back. So much other stuff. Check out the build.
  • 1994 Ford F350 Crew Cab Dually
    7.3 PS, ZF5, 6.0 Intercooler, KC Turbo
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