Lumpskie's "More Questions than Answers" build

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Lumpskie
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Re: Lumpskie's "More Questions than Answers" build

Post by Lumpskie »

dodgerammit wrote:Good on you for sticking to the do it right, and do it once motto.
Thanks, dodgerammit.

I put the new fan and clutch in. Felt for play and got some... think that the water pump is bad. Is that something that I can pick up locally? ( airtex, duralast, etc.) Or should I order from BJs?

Thanks for the help guys,
1989 Grand Wagoneer - Rebuilt 360, 2" Alcans, 10" travel Gabriel Guadian shocks.
1996 Land Cruiser - 1HD-T Diesel, Gturbo (23psi), Wholesale Automatics 442f, F/R ARBs, 35" Duratracs, ARB Rear Bumper, OME 2" lift, home built sliders and aluminum belly skid
2000 Honda Civic - Integra GSR engine, transmission, shift linkage and axles, 200hp, 33 combined mpg
2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 9 - 437hp/447ft-lb

Nikkormat
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Re: Lumpskie's "More Questions than Answers" build

Post by Nikkormat »

You want one of the Aluminum bodied pumps.
An airtex AW3401H, GMB 1101040AL, or GMB 1101040P

The cast iron pumps fit like garbage nowadays. The hose barbs are too large and the housing hits the harmonic balancer.
Gabe, "reformed" Jeep hoarder.
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Lumpskie
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Re: Lumpskie's "More Questions than Answers" build

Post by Lumpskie »

Looks like O'Reilly has a Murray aluminum body pump in stock. I had them set it aside for me. Any issue with running that one?

Thanks for the info!
1989 Grand Wagoneer - Rebuilt 360, 2" Alcans, 10" travel Gabriel Guadian shocks.
1996 Land Cruiser - 1HD-T Diesel, Gturbo (23psi), Wholesale Automatics 442f, F/R ARBs, 35" Duratracs, ARB Rear Bumper, OME 2" lift, home built sliders and aluminum belly skid
2000 Honda Civic - Integra GSR engine, transmission, shift linkage and axles, 200hp, 33 combined mpg
2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 9 - 437hp/447ft-lb

Nikkormat
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Re: Lumpskie's "More Questions than Answers" build

Post by Nikkormat »

Lumpskie wrote:Looks like O'Reilly has a Murray aluminum body pump in stock. I had them set it aside for me. Any issue with running that one?

Thanks for the info!
That should work! No problem, and good luck. :-bd
Gabe, "reformed" Jeep hoarder.
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Lumpskie
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Re: Lumpskie's "More Questions than Answers" build

Post by Lumpskie »

Nikkormat wrote:
Lumpskie wrote:Looks like O'Reilly has a Murray aluminum body pump in stock. I had them set it aside for me. Any issue with running that one?

Thanks for the info!
That should work! No problem, and good luck. :-bd

Thanks man! Turns out the guy set aside a pump for an XJ... I gave up and orderex from Rock Auto. I'm on track for the slowest radiator replacement in history!

And, it's not a build without pics so... BJ's Offroad stuff:

Image

Image

At least I know that the new stuff is quality.
1989 Grand Wagoneer - Rebuilt 360, 2" Alcans, 10" travel Gabriel Guadian shocks.
1996 Land Cruiser - 1HD-T Diesel, Gturbo (23psi), Wholesale Automatics 442f, F/R ARBs, 35" Duratracs, ARB Rear Bumper, OME 2" lift, home built sliders and aluminum belly skid
2000 Honda Civic - Integra GSR engine, transmission, shift linkage and axles, 200hp, 33 combined mpg
2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 9 - 437hp/447ft-lb
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Lumpskie
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Re: Lumpskie's "More Questions than Answers" build

Post by Lumpskie »

Thanks for all the help, Gabe!

Yesterday:

I got the old water pump out... man that was a pain! I was surprised by the fact that I had to loosen the alternator mounts, power steering and smog pump just to get the water pump bolts out.

Image

Getting the new one in with the gasket seemed a little tricky too. I didn't want to mess up the gasket on install so I used some tacky gasket sealer. I really hope that I don't develop leaks.

Image

I got the fan/fan clutch back in and tensioned all the belts.

Image

Hopefully, I'll have time after work to get the coolant lines and radiator in.
1989 Grand Wagoneer - Rebuilt 360, 2" Alcans, 10" travel Gabriel Guadian shocks.
1996 Land Cruiser - 1HD-T Diesel, Gturbo (23psi), Wholesale Automatics 442f, F/R ARBs, 35" Duratracs, ARB Rear Bumper, OME 2" lift, home built sliders and aluminum belly skid
2000 Honda Civic - Integra GSR engine, transmission, shift linkage and axles, 200hp, 33 combined mpg
2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 9 - 437hp/447ft-lb
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az chip
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Re: Lumpskie's "More Questions than Answers" build

Post by az chip »

I hope you patterned your bolts in some cardboard. That puzzle is a class 1 b**ch to put back if you don't.
'81 Cherokee Chief 81 WT Chief/MSD 6/Holley Sniper/ Rusty 4" Spring lift/ Bulltear oil adapter/K&P Engineering Oil Filter/ NP 208/ Serehill Light Harness/KC LED Headlights/ Evil Twin Fab Roof Rack and sliders/ Ross mirror mounts.
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Lumpskie
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Re: Lumpskie's "More Questions than Answers" build

Post by Lumpskie »

az chip wrote:I hope you patterned your bolts in some cardboard. That puzzle is a class 1 b**ch to put back if you don't.
I did number the bolts so I could put each one back in its specific location. But, even with the care I took... FAIL.

Image
1989 Grand Wagoneer - Rebuilt 360, 2" Alcans, 10" travel Gabriel Guadian shocks.
1996 Land Cruiser - 1HD-T Diesel, Gturbo (23psi), Wholesale Automatics 442f, F/R ARBs, 35" Duratracs, ARB Rear Bumper, OME 2" lift, home built sliders and aluminum belly skid
2000 Honda Civic - Integra GSR engine, transmission, shift linkage and axles, 200hp, 33 combined mpg
2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 9 - 437hp/447ft-lb
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Lumpskie
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Re: Lumpskie's "More Questions than Answers" build

Post by Lumpskie »

Ok... quick question for you guys. I'm guessing I somehow mangled the gasket on the water pump and that's why it's leaking. If that's the case, can I use some water pump gasket maker in there? What would you guys suggest?
1989 Grand Wagoneer - Rebuilt 360, 2" Alcans, 10" travel Gabriel Guadian shocks.
1996 Land Cruiser - 1HD-T Diesel, Gturbo (23psi), Wholesale Automatics 442f, F/R ARBs, 35" Duratracs, ARB Rear Bumper, OME 2" lift, home built sliders and aluminum belly skid
2000 Honda Civic - Integra GSR engine, transmission, shift linkage and axles, 200hp, 33 combined mpg
2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 9 - 437hp/447ft-lb
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az chip
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Re: Lumpskie's "More Questions than Answers" build

Post by az chip »

I used that red gasket sealer, forget the name. Really thin and red, no leaks so far.

edit Permatex high tack. Brush top can.
'81 Cherokee Chief 81 WT Chief/MSD 6/Holley Sniper/ Rusty 4" Spring lift/ Bulltear oil adapter/K&P Engineering Oil Filter/ NP 208/ Serehill Light Harness/KC LED Headlights/ Evil Twin Fab Roof Rack and sliders/ Ross mirror mounts.
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Lumpskie
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Re: Lumpskie's "More Questions than Answers" build

Post by Lumpskie »

az chip wrote:I used that red gasket sealer, forget the name. Really thin and red, no leaks so far.

edit Permatex high tack. Brush top can.
Hey AZ Chip,

I used that stuff, but I only applied to one side of the gasket. Maybe that's the problem? At any rate, I decided to check the leak one more time before I tore anything apart yesterday. Since the leak appeared to be at the water pump, I pulled the hose from the thermostat and poured into that.

Image

I poured a water bottle full of liquid in... no leak. Then I decided to fill the radiator to see if the issue had magically fixed itself. No such luck. But now I had 1-2 drips every second rather than a steady stream of liquid. I pulled the fan shroud and fan/fanclutch off for a better look. I found this(look really closely at the center of the picture and you'll see I snapped the picture mid-drip):

Image

So, now I knew that the seal between the pump and the engine was the source. So, I decided to recheck the torque on all the bolts to make sure everything was nicely cinched down. I thought the torque spec was roughly 50 in-lbs for these front bolts... At any rate, I found that the following bolt was a little loose. I pulled the outer nut off so I could retorque the inner one. Tightening it up made a little difference. Now I had one drip every 3 seconds or so.

Image

But, in the end, I couldn't get everything sealed up. So, I am going to start pulling everything apart and redo the install. Do you guys have any good advice on installing this the next time? I was considering trying the Permetex Water Pump gasket maker. Any opinions on that?

Thanks for the help,
1989 Grand Wagoneer - Rebuilt 360, 2" Alcans, 10" travel Gabriel Guadian shocks.
1996 Land Cruiser - 1HD-T Diesel, Gturbo (23psi), Wholesale Automatics 442f, F/R ARBs, 35" Duratracs, ARB Rear Bumper, OME 2" lift, home built sliders and aluminum belly skid
2000 Honda Civic - Integra GSR engine, transmission, shift linkage and axles, 200hp, 33 combined mpg
2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 9 - 437hp/447ft-lb
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az chip
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Re: Lumpskie's "More Questions than Answers" build

Post by az chip »

All I can say is I used the hi tack then let it sit for a couple of days before I added any water. No leaks. Check both surfaces for being flat.
'81 Cherokee Chief 81 WT Chief/MSD 6/Holley Sniper/ Rusty 4" Spring lift/ Bulltear oil adapter/K&P Engineering Oil Filter/ NP 208/ Serehill Light Harness/KC LED Headlights/ Evil Twin Fab Roof Rack and sliders/ Ross mirror mounts.

Nikkormat
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Re: Lumpskie's "More Questions than Answers" build

Post by Nikkormat »

I'd say a blue paper gasket should do the job on it's own. But when I did my first one I used a smearing of ultragrey on either side of the paper gasket.
Gabe, "reformed" Jeep hoarder.
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Lumpskie
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Re: Lumpskie's "More Questions than Answers" build

Post by Lumpskie »

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I know that the install instructions said to use hi tack. I did, but only on the gasket-engine side... not the gasket to pump side. The hi tack said to use it "on all surfaces" so I'm wondering if that is a contributor. At any rate, I'll have some time tonight to pull the pump. I'll do that and see what it looks like. I'm thinking that I'll either use hi tack on both sides of the gasket or use some ultragrey like Nikkormat mentioned. Thanks for the help and I'll keep you posted!
1989 Grand Wagoneer - Rebuilt 360, 2" Alcans, 10" travel Gabriel Guadian shocks.
1996 Land Cruiser - 1HD-T Diesel, Gturbo (23psi), Wholesale Automatics 442f, F/R ARBs, 35" Duratracs, ARB Rear Bumper, OME 2" lift, home built sliders and aluminum belly skid
2000 Honda Civic - Integra GSR engine, transmission, shift linkage and axles, 200hp, 33 combined mpg
2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 9 - 437hp/447ft-lb

csuengr
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Re: Lumpskie's "More Questions than Answers" build

Post by csuengr »

I typically will work blue RTV onto/into the gasket with my fingers. It is messy, but you get the correct amount of RTV (nothing squishes out) on the gasket, plus the gasket will stick to the timing cover making installation of the pump easier.
1977 Cherokee S, Ford 5.0, 5 speed, BW 1356, 33 x 10.50 BFG's. No longer my DD.
2007 Mercury Milan, 2.3L, 5-speed, now my DD. 29 mpg average.
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Lumpskie
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Re: Lumpskie's "More Questions than Answers" build

Post by Lumpskie »

csuengr wrote:I typically will work blue RTV onto/into the gasket with my fingers. It is messy, but you get the correct amount of RTV (nothing squishes out) on the gasket, plus the gasket will stick to the timing cover making installation of the pump easier.
That's a good idea. I wonder if I'm stuck because I already put the hi tack on one side....
1989 Grand Wagoneer - Rebuilt 360, 2" Alcans, 10" travel Gabriel Guadian shocks.
1996 Land Cruiser - 1HD-T Diesel, Gturbo (23psi), Wholesale Automatics 442f, F/R ARBs, 35" Duratracs, ARB Rear Bumper, OME 2" lift, home built sliders and aluminum belly skid
2000 Honda Civic - Integra GSR engine, transmission, shift linkage and axles, 200hp, 33 combined mpg
2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 9 - 437hp/447ft-lb
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Lumpskie
Posts: 1320
Joined: Wed May 14, 2014 4:33 pm
Location: New Hampshire

Re: Lumpskie's "More Questions than Answers" build

Post by Lumpskie »

Looks like I should have used tacky sealer on both sides.

Image

Looking closely, the gasket was no longer in great shape. So, I bought Permetex Water Pump Gasket Maker. I followed the instructions which instructed to use a 1/4" bead, finger tight, wait an hour, torque, then fill after 24 hours. No leaks!
Image

I'll finish up the belts, trans lines etc. now. Hopefully, I'll be back on the road soon!
1989 Grand Wagoneer - Rebuilt 360, 2" Alcans, 10" travel Gabriel Guadian shocks.
1996 Land Cruiser - 1HD-T Diesel, Gturbo (23psi), Wholesale Automatics 442f, F/R ARBs, 35" Duratracs, ARB Rear Bumper, OME 2" lift, home built sliders and aluminum belly skid
2000 Honda Civic - Integra GSR engine, transmission, shift linkage and axles, 200hp, 33 combined mpg
2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 9 - 437hp/447ft-lb
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Lumpskie
Posts: 1320
Joined: Wed May 14, 2014 4:33 pm
Location: New Hampshire

Re: Lumpskie's "More Questions than Answers" build

Post by Lumpskie »

The plot thickens... I got everything buttoned up yesterday and had my wife turn the motor over while I watched it. I noticed that the smog pump belt was slipping. So, I tightened it to a good and tight tension. Still slipped. So I pulled the belt off and tried to spin the pulley with my hand... no go. The smog pump feels totally seized. I replaced it a couple of years ago, so it was a surprise.

At any rate, it has me thinking. I wonder if it seized, then threw it's belt which hit the fan/fan clutch and caused them to break and hit the radiator? What do you guys think?

For now, I've pulled the belt off the smog pump. Is there a draw back to running the Jeep that way while I burp the system and make sure that I'm not having any coolant leaks?
1989 Grand Wagoneer - Rebuilt 360, 2" Alcans, 10" travel Gabriel Guadian shocks.
1996 Land Cruiser - 1HD-T Diesel, Gturbo (23psi), Wholesale Automatics 442f, F/R ARBs, 35" Duratracs, ARB Rear Bumper, OME 2" lift, home built sliders and aluminum belly skid
2000 Honda Civic - Integra GSR engine, transmission, shift linkage and axles, 200hp, 33 combined mpg
2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 9 - 437hp/447ft-lb
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az chip
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Re: Lumpskie's "More Questions than Answers" build

Post by az chip »

For now, I've pulled the belt off the smog pump. Is there a draw back to running the Jeep that way while I burp the system and make sure that I'm not having any coolant leaks?
Less O2 in the exhaust stream. That is all I see. Doesn't do anything to engine.
'81 Cherokee Chief 81 WT Chief/MSD 6/Holley Sniper/ Rusty 4" Spring lift/ Bulltear oil adapter/K&P Engineering Oil Filter/ NP 208/ Serehill Light Harness/KC LED Headlights/ Evil Twin Fab Roof Rack and sliders/ Ross mirror mounts.
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Lumpskie
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Re: Lumpskie's "More Questions than Answers" build

Post by Lumpskie »

az chip wrote:
For now, I've pulled the belt off the smog pump. Is there a draw back to running the Jeep that way while I burp the system and make sure that I'm not having any coolant leaks?
Less O2 in the exhaust stream. That is all I see. Doesn't do anything to engine.
Good. I'll just (hopefully) finish burping the system tonight and get some miles on it. Then, I can worry about a replacement. FWIW, that 2747 fan clutch sure makes more noise than the stock one!
1989 Grand Wagoneer - Rebuilt 360, 2" Alcans, 10" travel Gabriel Guadian shocks.
1996 Land Cruiser - 1HD-T Diesel, Gturbo (23psi), Wholesale Automatics 442f, F/R ARBs, 35" Duratracs, ARB Rear Bumper, OME 2" lift, home built sliders and aluminum belly skid
2000 Honda Civic - Integra GSR engine, transmission, shift linkage and axles, 200hp, 33 combined mpg
2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 9 - 437hp/447ft-lb
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