84 Grand Wagoneer- LT1/ 4L60E/ NP241/ Dana 60F/ Dana 70/ SOA

[Mustang Shooter]

Hi everyone!
My brother and I have finally collected enough parts to go ahead and get a start on rebuilding our 84 Grand Wagoneer.
The plan is to have a decent hunting and fishing rig that we can have some fun with.








Stock 84 with a 360 and TF727/NP229, Dana 44 front and AMC 20 rear.
When I got it, I had to install a new transmission pump. the engine had been pulled and when it was reinstalled, the torque converter was not put in properly and sheared the pump drive ears off.
I got it running and drove it around on our property for a year or so, but I the motor stopped running and I decided to swap rather than spend any more money on it.


This is the LT1 and 4L60E that was in my 94 Camaro. I bought it brand new off the showroom floor and eventually totaled it in late 2000. I had been hauling it through life for the last 14 years with the intention of putting it in another street rod. I finally decided to go ahead and use it for the Waggy.
Originally I was going to use the transmission and just convert it with the short output shaft. In order to change the shafts out, the price was going to be the same as a full rebuild, so I decided to get a used transmission from a K1500 truck.


I ended up getting a 4L60E from a 95 K1500.
The transfer case is a passenger drop NP241c from a 89 Suburban K1500.
My brother and I had been going back and forth on what we wanted to do regarding axles. If we left the stock 84 Dana 44 or managed to get a cheap Dana 60 from a 78-79 Ford we could use a driver drop 241.
If we went with Chevy or Dodge Dana 60 we would need the passenger drop.
Around here, you are not going to get a Ford Dana 60 for less than $1200. When a set of Dodge axles came up for much less than that, we made the design decision and jumped on the Suburban transfer case.



The axles we ended up with came from a 93 Dodge W250 3/4 ton. The front is a 93 Dana 60F and the rear ended up being a 98 Dana 70U. These have the 3.54 gear ratio. The gear ratio will eventually be 4.56, with carrier changes.
The rims and tires that came with the axles are 285/75-16, which converts out to be 33" tires on a 16" x 7" rim. The plan has been to use 35" tires, probably on H2 8 lug rims (but we'll see!).


Rear spring from a 95 K1500 Suburban. The suburban springs are 60" from eye to eye.

[Mustang Shooter]

In the shop with the front clip removed. I decided to take the front clip off because it should be easier to get the entire drive train out at one time.
When I had done it a few years ago I used the lift in the shop and dropped the transmission and transfer case from underneath and then pulled the engine, but this time we had a 66 Mustang Convertible on it, so out had to come out from the front.




The AMC drivetrain is officially removed.
I must have needed to take the picker arm 1 more setting out, to the 1/2 ton point, because I still needed to let the air out of the tires to get the tail shaft out of the chassis.




LT1 separated from the Camaro transmission.


Transmission and transfer case mated together.
The plan is to use the mechanical speedometer on the transfer case with the stock speedometer of the Waggy.
I will eventually use the speedometer kit from Advance Adaptors to send the 40 pulse speed signal to the LT1 computer http://www.advanceadapters.com/products ... put-shaft/.


I thought I had a pic of the new drivetrain assembled before I started the fitment process, but no.
The engine is sitting on the stock frame mounts in the Waggy. I am using a stock early style Chevy engine mount.
The mount locations of the AMC and Chevy are almost in the same location.
Before I pulled the 360, I made a mark on the frame that was in line with the union of the AMC360 to the TF727 (block to bellhousing). When I dropped the Chevy engine and transmission in, I lined the same point up.


I was trying to see how the clearance was as I set the drive angle. The engine was still sitting on the Waggy mounts and I was adjusting the angle with the floor jack.
When I did this, I made sure the chassis was level. I built an adjustable axle cradle several years ago that I use to mock up axle height. I set it under the rear frame rail at the bumper and set the front frame on jack stands.


This was the point I was worried about. I ended up cutting it off once I had things where I was pretty comfortable, since it isn't needed or used.
After removing the dog ear and adjustments, I can put my hand between the transfer case and the floor pan.



I unbolted and cut loose the welds of the engine mounts from the frame.
I will build new mounts from a section of 2" X 2" X 3/16" wall and a section of 2" X 3" X 3/16" wall tubing.


I measured from the center of the balancer to the frame rail to make sure that the engine is centered in the chassis.


I also check the level of the engine, both front to back and side to side, eventually decided to stay with 2* tail down and level side to side.


When I was happy with the clearance of the transfer case to the floor, I fabricated a new transmission crossmember from 2" X 2" X 3/16" tubing and a section of 2" X 3" X 1/4" L channel.
I have enough room to fit my hand between the top of the transfer case and floor pan.
I am using the stock transmission mount for a Chevy K series truck.
I centered the output shaft in the chassis at 17 1/2".
There are 2 sets of mounting points on the frame. I used the furthest rearward.


I have seen in other threads where builders are notching the crossmember for the front drive shaft.
I decided to use a design that had its horizontal sections above the front output flange. The other side should give some room for the exhaust routing. Hope it works the way I envision it, I still have to get a front shaft built.



With the tail shaft mounted to the new crossmember, I set the engine mounts that I built.
I supported the engine with the engine hoist, again checking for center and angle. Once I was where I wanted it to be, I tack welded them into place.


When I took all of the supports loose, the engine is at 2*



I pulled the drivetrain out again and welded in the motor mounts to the frame.
When I am welding stuff like this, I use my Lincoln 225 wire feed and .035 wire.
My top horizontal and vertical welds usually turn out pretty good. Lower horizontal... I hate welding overhead!



While everything is out I welded up the crossmember that I had only tacked up.


Back in its new home.

[Mustang Shooter]

Its been raining constantly for at least 3 hours!
I think I will save the next segment until tomorrow.
Sorry if the posts have been long, they will be shorter real soon because I will be about caught up with my progress.
I will then be at the point where I will need questions answered and guidance from you guys that have done similar builds.
Thanks a bunch in advance!
Dan

[ElkyRacer]

Nice to see another LT1 build! I myself have a LT1 from a Caprice that I've been gathering parts for to drop into my Cherokee but with a nv4500/241/205 and Superduty Tons.

I vaguely remember something about the 94 model 4L60E's having a few differences than the 95+. You might check and verify that the 94 PCM will control the newer trans. It's been a few years so I'm a bit rusty on the LTX stuff. I'll definitely be keeping up with this build tho!

[ElkyRacer]

BTW, I see Texas plates on the Waggy. Where about?

[Road Trip]

Good to see you moving forward with the project. Also glad to hear you guys are having some rain. I am still planning to come see the shop when I get out there. Only reason I haven't is the drive, about 6 hours from home. Keep the write up coming.

[Mustang Shooter]

Hey Elky,
Thanks for the heads up on the transmissions! I did a quick search a little while ago, evidently there is a solenoid difference, but that there is a work around in the valve body. I still have to pull the everything again later on, so I will deal with it at that time.
Yeah, I'm in Texas. Man I thought it was on the avatar screen but its not. Ill change it in a bit.
We are just south of Harper, between Harper and Kerrville. Closer to Harper but miss the zip code line by less than a half mile, so we have a Kerrville address.
Dan

[Mustang Shooter]

HI Robert!
Thanks for checking out the build!
Yeah, it rained until 11:30 or 12:00 last night and then rained all morning. Pretty hard down pours too. I don't think we have checked the gauge today, but I bet we have probably had at least 3 inches.
I may have to get out and mow some around mid week. last year I think I mowed twice all summer. I have done a little trimming around the house, but not a full mow yet.
Gate is still open for you when able.
Dan

[81Cherokee Laredo]

Dan,

Great build so far! I am having a hard time focusing on it though, way to many cool old Mustangs in the back ground Am looking forward to seeing how you did your shackle flip in the back with the chevy springs.

Dan

[Mustang Shooter]

Hi Dan, thanks for looking!
Mustang restoration is what we actually do for a "living", so there are always cars here in our shop. They are all real deal Shelbys, except for the 66 Convertible, which is a resto-mod.
Hopfefully I can get time to load up the next update. I wanted to do it yesterday, but worked on a customer build that we are trying to finish.
I guess the last few weeks have caught up with me. By the time 4 p.m. rolled around I was real cranky and decided to take a nap. When I got up a few hours later, I just didn't have the motivation.
The next segment does deal with the axle swap and after that is when I have some questions.
Without pulling my map right now, where is Tuscola?
Dan

[81Cherokee Laredo]

Just south of Abilene

[ElkyRacer]

Hey Elky,
Thanks for the heads up on the transmissions! I did a quick search a little while ago, evidently there is a solenoid difference, but that there is a work around in the valve body. I still have to pull the everything again later on, so I will deal with it at that time.
Yeah, I'm in Texas. Man I thought it was on the avatar screen but its not. Ill change it in a bit.
We are just south of Harper, between Harper and Kerrville. Closer to Harper but miss the zip code line by less than a half mile, so we have a Kerrville address.
Dan

Good deal, I knew there was something funky. Keep up the good work!

I created this Tapatalk signature specifically for Jordan and Tobie!

[jpswapmohn]

You really have me thinking..
I got a kit from Novak to keep the 229. I think I was the first, and maybe only one they did. They sent me the 208 stuff the first time and there was about 3/4" gap left between it and the TC using the tail shaft they sent. They cut a spacer for me and all was well.
I guess I can easily go to a 208 now, but my transmission is a bit chewed up and I need to replace it. the inside of the housing was chewed up pretty bad and the case saver and sun shell haven't prevented a few hick-ups as I had hoped. I was thinking it would be simpler to go to a 241c setup as you have so I don't have to deal with swapping tail shafts and such. I also have the vss in the rear housing of the transmission and it would have to be transferred. I was actually hoping there was already something in the k1500 setup that took care of that. based on your comment, it doesn't appear to be..

I do like your crossmember setup! I moved and slightly modified the stock unit.

Keep the notes and photos coming..you may have me reworking some of my junk by the time it is said and done.

[Mustang Shooter]

This is where the suspension swap started. Stock 84 Grand Wagoneer front and rear springs, Dana 44 front and AMC20 rear on factory 15" x 7" wheels and 255/70-15 tires.


We removed the shocks from their upper mounts, leaving them attached to the axle; used a tie rod removal tool to remove the steering linkages from the stock pitman arm, pulled the front spring eye bolts from the stock hangars, removed sway bar from the frame mounts, removed the u-bolts, and then rolled the Dana 44 out from under the chassis.




With the front of the springs down, we were able to roll the Dana 60 into place.
Using a floor jack we raised the springs back up and reinstalled the bolts to the front shackles.
The distance in the separation of the spring pads on the two axles differs by like an inch. I will have to go back and check but I think the inside measurement on the 60 is 30" and the 40 is 29". We gave the springs a slight shove outward on each side so that they popped into the center pin receiver in the spring pads.



We are using the Dana 60 spring retainer plates to keep everything together. When we do the final assembly after the axles are cleaned up there will be new u-bolts and studs installed.



Some of you may notice that these two pics might be out of place in the project timeline, but evidently I never took any front shots after we got the front axle installed. OOPS!


Maybe we should put one of those thick stainless plates on and go make some sparks!
All.. my.. friends.. love a low rider...

[badaboom]

Kewl Looks like it getting a bit fat up front...

[Mustang Shooter]

Ok, let me start this section by saying that I owe Tad an apology.
I had inquired to him about using the 95 Suburban springs and said that I was going to get one of his rear kits.
Jerred and I talked about the subject and decided to build our own from material we had in the shop and put the money toward a high steer kit.
So Tad, I am sorry I did not get the kit.

We decided that if we were doing things big on this build we might as well do the 63" Chevy 1/2 ton spring swap.
I found a 95 K1500 Suburban locally that was being parted out. AWSOME! 1/2 ton Chevy springs and I got them at a great price.


What I found out after I got home and measured them is that they are actually shorter than the 1/2 ton truck springs. They measure eye to eye 60", pin centered in the spring at 30" each side.
Tad replied back to me and said that yes they would work.
I also found an old thread on IFSJA where Todd gave a break down of how he had RiverBeast at the time. He was using Suburban springs. Unfortunately there are no surviving images in that thread so I had nothing to go by.



I unfortunately do not have any pics of us taking the original rear axle and suspension out.
I think Jerred had called it quits and I decided to keep going.


The rear was a bit different than the front on removal.
We had our tallest jack stands supporting the rear of the Waggy on the rear frame rail.
We removed the upper shock from its mount on the frame, disconnected the rear brake line and park cables, took the wheels off of the axle, and removed all 4 spring eye bolts but, when we removed the rear, we removed the shackle hanger and kept them with the spring. We then slid the axle assembly out from the driver side.


If you are doing a swap like this, at this point get your engine hoist if you have one and hook it up so that you can support the back of the truck. I use a set of axle strap tie downs and a spreader bar that I built to pull engines and other things with.
We originally were going to use jack stands in front of the front spring pocket. When we took the support out from under the axle, it wanted to teeter to the rear, so we went a different way.
We probably did it completely wrong but, we installed the entire Dana 70 assembly as 1 unit, the same way we took the AMC20 out. Only difference is that we left the tires on so we could roll it around some to get it positioned.

While I was doing the engine swap the previous week, Jerred built the new front spring pocket and rear flip bracket. He used 3/16" X 3" strap and some 2" X 3" X 1/4" L channel. They were just straight cuts and drilled bolt holes with no shape. We just wanted to see what they would do. We did the initial axle placement with them in this form.

If you look close, you can see that the spring hangar bracket and front pocket are just straight cut.



When Jerred was originally working on the brackets for the front, he decided to not cut the lower section of the box off as is done during the install of Tads kit. This is so that if we need to undo something, at least during our mock up stages, we can go back to a "base starting point".
When I started to adjust for placement, I used a speed square and made a mark perpendicular to the bracket top surface, against the squared side of the spring eye bolt. I then used the square to line up the bolt in the new mount with a bolt in the original mount.
I then used a section of 1/4" plate to clamp the two exteriors in alignment and set some tack welds.
Once we were OK with the placement of all brackets, I came up with a contour shape I could live with, then went back and cut and shaped them.



I pretty much did the same alignment procedure for the rear flip brackets. I tried moving them around some but I couldn't really tell if I made any changes. This is the position they are currently in, but I still have them clamped in, I have not done any tack welds.



This is where the axle sits in the wheel well. it has moved the axle back @ 4".



This is how it sits now.
Jerred is 5'-10" and we are still using the complete 4 leaf spring pack and the overload.


I am not sure if the method is right, but I measured the shackle angle with a string line going straight from eye to eye and then up to the hangar bracket. I had seen instructions stating center to center to center, but top to top and along the same side should be the same. I ended up with @ 53*.



The rear pinion is @ 5*.



The front is @ 2*


From the bottom of the frame, the center of the tail shaft on the transfer case is 8".


Here is where I need some input. With what I am showing, are we in the ball park or seriously screwed?
I can get other measurements if needed, just let me know.

Dan

[twisted frame]

I don't have any input for you on the axle swap since I don't have the experience, but, I really dig those motor mounts! They look great.

[Mustang Shooter]

Hey everyone!
Wow, 7 months since the last post. I'll try to get this caught up with where I am currently at.
When I made the last post in May, I also contacted one of the driveline shops and gave them all of the measurements and info that I posted.
They said that everything that I sent looked good and that my concerns with the drive shaft angles can be adjusted out. Whew! Man did that news take some stress off!
Eventually, I will rotate the front and rear pinions and add a slip yoke eliminator for the rear output.

So the next thing we decided to jump onto was getting a high steering system picked out and mocked into place.
I found a company on E-bay that had a Northwest Fab kit at a price that I was comfortable with.
It came with two 60"x.25"x1.5 tubes, springless steering arms, mounting studs with tapered nuts, spring eliminator, threaded tie rod inserts, 1 ton Chevy tie rod ends, and a dropped pitman arm.













I decided to leave the existing Dodge steering link in place while I am assembling the new components and ready to get the front end aligned.
First was the removal of the spring caps.





I then installed the new studs and metal disk for the spring cap eliminator.





I slid the new arms over the studs and installed the tapered nuts.



Thread down the tension shaft.





I then pulled the stock pitman arm.



I have a kit that has several tools in it that are used to remove ball joints and pitman arms.
This sucker was on very well. I shot some penetrating oil on the threads and the base of the splined shaft for the steering box. After I let it set a while I used a wrench to hold the pitman arm and my impact to loosen the retaining nut. When the nut was off, I installed the puller and began applying pressure to the tension bolt. I will also use a hammer and tap around the edge of the arm, eventually the arm will come loose with a loud POP!







The new arm does not have any alignment splines. I made sure that I compared the new drop arm with the original so it would be in the same position.







I put the end links on and started to set up the center links.
I figured that if I left 1/2" between the jamb nut and the end of the threads while I was building, I should have room to make adjustments for the steering alignment.





I measured between the flats on the inserts, and cut the tubing to that length. I did this for both the center link and the steering link.



I used an old blast shield insert to scribe a cut line around the tubes.





I used a cut off wheel to cut the tube. I could have used my chop saw, but the blade flexes and moves more than I wanted for this job.
I did make my cut a bit over the line so I could use a grinder and shave it down to the line.



I ground a bevel on the edges of the tubes so I could get a good fill when I welded the threaded ends to the tubes.
I also measured the ends that slid into the tubes.
I decided to take half of the distance and drill four 3/8" holes for plug welds.







Assemble, weld and grind.







We installed the new links and gave the steering wheel a turn in both directions. Cool it worked!





Later I will come up with what to do about sway bars. I'm thinking of trying one from a the same series Dodge that the axles came from.



Everything will be pulled back off, once the axle modifications have been made, blasted and painted.

[BigJ200]

Your project is going well. Looking good.

I've done these swaps many times, so just a few thoughts...

It appears that the rear is much higher than the front now. It needs to sit level before any driveshaft angles can be finalized.

So, 2* down on the motor.. Close to perfect.
5* up on the rear pinion.. 3* difference. 1* difference is the ultimate target. 3* shouldn't cause driveshaft vibrations. If it does, I recommend cutting the perches, rotating the axle and re-welding rather than using shims. If you do use shims, use steel, not aluminum. Aluminum shims don't belong on vehicles.

I also assume the the front pinion is pointing upward at 2*. If so, you have a 4* difference, which could be problematic. Another issue comes into play with a 4-6" lift if you are planning to run a CV joint like the original Waggy had. The front pinion will no longer be inline (at the same angle) with the front driveshaft. This will cause big vibrations in four wheel drive. The only way to correct the issue is to eliminate the CV joint and CV yoke on the transfer case then install a standard yoke/u-joint. The other option is to cut and rotate the Dana 60 inner C's to achieve the right pinion angle. But unless you like kicking your own ass, I would avoid it.

BTW, you will want to double check front driveline to transmission clearance. I have had a few clearance issues with the 4L60e and passenger side drop 241's. The front 60 pinion may be too far to the driver's side causing the driveline to hit the trans case when the suspension compresses. This problem can easily be missed until it's too late.

Hope this makes sense.

Keep the updates coming...

[Mustang Shooter]

Thanks for looking BigJ200 and the info.
We haven't been completely slack over the last few months so there is still a little more to come.
I just hve to be freed up to do the updates.
I'd like to post the info on the drivelines later and maybe you can give soem more thoughts.
Thanks again.
Dan