ChrisHager's 79 J-10 Build Thread

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Tatsadasayago
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Re: ChrisHager's 79 J-10 Build Thread

Post by Tatsadasayago »

Hey Chris, I recall being in a pinch and needing an FSJ D44 backing plate once and the donor vehicle was a 72-76 era Chevy pickup. The only difference I could detect was the closed off brake adjuster windows.
The GM and Jeep brake shoes are slightly different as well. IIRC the metal on GM shoes is thicker so the jeep adjuster ends and wheel cylinder rods won't fit without grinding on the shoe. Bad JuJu.
I learned this last summer when I was doing the brakes on my 77.

Hopefully you have access to a salvage yard there and can get a plate to compare.

That end on your E-Brake cable had some long tabs that expand and lock the cable to the plate when inserted. They are a real pain to release and the tabs tend to be rusted...which leads to breakage like you have.
I don't know if Dorman still makes them so you may have to source used. If you find a suitable backing plate, you could leave the cable attacked if the length is close to your original.
1977 Cherokee Chief - The Blair Jeep Project III
A collection of parts flying in close formation

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ChrisHager
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Re: ChrisHager's 79 J-10 Build Thread

Post by ChrisHager »

Thanks for the response!

I've been looking around and haven't come up with much yet. I have a "search" out right now and also have a friend near a pick and pull that may be able to help me out. I also have a list of vehicles that use similar backing plates but so far, what I'm finding is also discontinued.

I have the ability to attempt a repair on this if I have to. I'm saving this as a last resort.

Too bad I didn't have a pile of cash sitting around. If that were the case, I could go for a full disk conversion and be done with it! :D

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ChrisHager
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Re: ChrisHager's 79 J-10 Build Thread

Post by ChrisHager »

Update on the brakes:

Since I hadn't had any luck finding a new replacement backing plate, I decided to pull apart the passenger side (it needed updated as well) so I could use the good backing plate as a template to fix the bad backing plate.

Pictures for anyone wanting to see how the brakes are set up:

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When I pulled my axle shaft, I found fluid up at the bearing. I thought these axles had inner and outer seals... If that's the case, what's the recommendation here? I've heard some people recommend having good inner and outer seals while others recommend pulling the inner seal allowing the bearing to be bathed in gear oil.

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Since I'm this far in, I'm considering replacing the bearings and seals. My father-in-law and I are also toying with the idea of pulling and replacing the chewed up spider gears and limited slip clutches as well since I have the shafts out. I still haven't done that since my findings back in July of '14! I'll take any recommendations, tips, advice, etc.

As my final bit of info, my father-in-law called me last night and informed me he found a jeep junkyard in California that had a '78 J-10 with the backing plates still on it. The fella' out there is going to pull them and ship them to us. $75 each. My early birthday present.

Awfully nice of him!

:)
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az chip
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Re: ChrisHager's 79 J-10 Build Thread

Post by az chip »

Nice find on the plates. But mission creep gets all of us!
'81 Cherokee Chief 81 WT Chief/MSD 6/Holley Sniper/ Rusty 4" Spring lift/ Bulltear oil adapter/K&P Engineering Oil Filter/ NP 208/ Serehill Light Harness/KC LED Headlights/ Evil Twin Fab Roof Rack and sliders/ Ross mirror mounts.

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ChrisHager
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Re: ChrisHager's 79 J-10 Build Thread

Post by ChrisHager »

Thanks! Haha.

The more I've talked to my FIL, the more we're considering attempting the spider gear/LS clutches while we have it this far torn apart. It kind of makes sense...

Question - can you pull the inner seals from the sides or do you need to pull the carrier and yank them from the inside? I'm seeing that it's doable from the outside. We've decided to pull the inner seals and allow the bearings to be lubricate via gear oil. I'll still pack the bearings with grease for the initial 'break in' as well. How we've come to this decision:

1. Either method, lubricated by grease vs. lubricated by oil, are both acceptable yet lubricated by grease requires more maintenance.
2. If the inner axle seal is present but fails, it will leak enough to rinse the grease off the bearing yet not enough to sufficiently lubricate the bearing.
3. My inner axle seal on the passenger side is leaking as described in #2.
4. Again, we're already this far in. Why not?

Source for the information that lead me to this decision: http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewtop ... eal+inner#

We haven't started anything yet. I may dive in this weekend if time allows. I'm all ears on this discussion if anyone has anything to add.

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ChrisHager
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Re: ChrisHager's 79 J-10 Build Thread

Post by ChrisHager »

I almost forgot to update my progress! I've been quite busy lately with other projects but I have had enough time to removed the carrier. It's DEFINITELY time to replace the spider gears.

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I've been doing some research on different ways to replace the clutch pack and spider gears. If I clamp an axle shaft in my vice (wrapped in a towel first), I may be able to spin the gears out by rotating the carrier without having to compress the clutches. Installation would hopefully work the same. If that doesn't work, I'll have to use the bolt trick to compress the clutches enough to slide out the shims behind the spider gears then spin them out. My first order of business, though, is to remove the cross shaft. Mine isn't held in with the recessed bolt. Instead, it appears to have two clips on either side holding it in. I haven't really given it a good look but while tinkering around in the garage, my brother and I glanced at the clips. They appear to wrap most of the way around the cross shaft. If this is the case, how do I remove them? Is there something I'm missing? Any advice is appreciated! I hope to get back at it on Saturday.

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ChrisHager
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Re: ChrisHager's 79 J-10 Build Thread

Post by ChrisHager »

More pictures of the "clips" on the cross shaft. The first two are from one side, second two from the other side.

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I looked the carrier over well. There is no bolt or pin holding the shaft in. Now, I did open my rebuild kit. It shipped with a completely different cross shaft which is set up for a pin. Assuming I can figure out how to get this one out, when I swap the spider gears and LS clutches, can I re-use my old cross shaft?

Pin inside one of the spider gears. Looks like I'll need to clean up a little surface rust...

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Cross shaft:

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ChrisHager
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Re: ChrisHager's 79 J-10 Build Thread

Post by ChrisHager »

I may be on to something...

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Service manual for a Dana 44 Trac-Lok: http://www2.dana.com/pdf/5313-3.pdf

Full list of Dana Service Manuals: http://www2.dana.com/expertforms/depdf.aspx?prod=AXL

Please chime in if you have more information/experience with this.

:-bd

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ChrisHager
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Re: ChrisHager's 79 J-10 Build Thread

Post by ChrisHager »

Well, I was able to remove the clips using the FSM method (screwdrivers). They really weren't that bad to remove. In fact, the entire removal process went quite well!

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I'm now trying to reassemble everything. I'm down to installing 1 more shim behind one of the spider gears. I only had one bolt to compress the clutch packs. I attempted using a C clamp on the other side but bent it. After I pick up another bolt/washers, hopefully the other shim will slide in. Man is it tight. I'm slightly nervous. At the moment, I'm not sure how all this is going to spin. My FIL advised me to put it all together and remove the bolt setup before I start worrying about it. Good advice I'd say.

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ChrisHager
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Re: ChrisHager's 79 J-10 Build Thread

Post by ChrisHager »

I've finally had time to work on this again. I was able to easily get the shims in once I used the bolt trick on both sides. No problem! :)

I now face two large problems:

1. I can no longer turn the case. I have the axle shaft clamped into my bench vice with a cloth wrapped around it to protect it. With enough leverage, the shaft moves in the vice without the gears turning. Something's wrong.
2. The new kit came with a new cross shaft designed for a roll pin or bolt style case. Since my case isn't drilled for this, I re-used my old pin and clips. The side gears are a smidge wider which won't allow for both of the clips to seat on the cross shaft.

I'm going to call up a local 4x4 shop and discuss my options. I'm open to any discussion here as well. I'm pretty sure the kit I have is not necessarily correct for my 79 D44 BUT I also don't think a kit exists for the 79 D44 when using a case that's built for a clip style cross shaft.

:cry:

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ChrisHager
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Re: ChrisHager's 79 J-10 Build Thread

Post by ChrisHager »

I just got off the phone with the 4x4 shop. He seemed to understand what my problem is. I'm going to swing out to the shop after the holiday season so he can take a look at it and come up with a fix.

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ChrisHager
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Re: ChrisHager's 79 J-10 Build Thread

Post by ChrisHager »

After some leg work, and a couple "I know what you need but can't do it here. Call this guy." situations, I ended up about 45 minutes away at a machine shop out in the middle of nowhere. The ultimate consensus was to widen one of the grooves in the pin to allow the clip to fit in. I was charged $15 so I gave the guy a $20 for his time and for letting me wander around his shop.

We did run into a problem though - When the machinist was removing the C clips, he sprung one somewhere into Narnia. We couldn't find it. He made a replacement out of a copper U-Joint C clip (squeezed one tighter to snug around the pin) and figured it'd hold just fine since there isn't a whole lot of side to side pressure. I made a few phone calls to see about purchasing a replacement clip and found they no longer exist. One helpful gentleman informed me there were a two to three year span of corvettes in the 80s that had these and if I scrounged around, I may run across someone with a few on hand. Seems like a tough search to me!

Anyway, does anyone see any issues with running the homemade copper C clip? I can snag a picture or two and post them up if that would help.

Thanks!

SJTD
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Re: ChrisHager's 79 J-10 Build Thread

Post by SJTD »

I'd find the right clip considering the catastrophic failure if the clip come off and the shaft works its way out.
Sic friatur crustulum

'84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.

Topic author
ChrisHager
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Re: ChrisHager's 79 J-10 Build Thread

Post by ChrisHager »

After pondering on it, looking it over, and discussing the issue with a few people, we decided it wasn't worth the risk to leave the homemade clip in. I figured it was time to do some leg work when I remembered my father-in-law found me the impossible-to-find backing plates at a junkyard out in California - J&W Jeep. I called them up to see if they had some. Sure enough! They're shipping me 4 (because you know another one will go missing someday) today or tomorrow for $22 total! I'm much more comfortable with this.

Website: http://www.jwjeep.com/

:-bd

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ChrisHager
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Re: ChrisHager's 79 J-10 Build Thread

Post by ChrisHager »

I never posted a followup. I have it back together and so far, so good! I ended up with this C-clip as the fix. It's not ideal but it's better than nothing! J&W Jeep looked for a week and didn't end up finding what I needed.

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The brakes were interesting to install as well. Some of the hardware was bent and needed massaged back into shape. I had to fabricate a little as well.

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So, it's all back together and I've had it on the road a couple times. I've bled the brakes quite a bit and they're decent but I'm not completely satisfied yet. I need to adjust the rear brakes again then re-bleed the system. Hopefully that firms up the pedal a bit more.

Once I have the brakes to my liking, I'm turning my eyes to the front end. I noticed on my test drive Saturday that I'm walking back and forth on the road quite a bit. I also have a small dead spot in the steering. I think it's time to look at the TREs, ball joints, and power steering system.

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ChrisHager
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Re: ChrisHager's 79 J-10 Build Thread

Post by ChrisHager »

Small update - the brakes and differential seem to be holding up well! I had some time to tinker and test drive and found the slop in the steering is likely a failing power steering pump. I've burped it well with new ATF which helped with the slop but it didn't completely resolve the issue. Plus, it makes noise and is hard to pull the wheel when turning left. Since I can get one with a reservoir for $35, I'm going to go ahead and replace it.

Besides that, I'm strongly suspecting I need new engine mounts and a transmission mount. After I did the clutch job, I noted my clutch pedal will now move under a heavier load. Tatsadasayago mentioned a few pages back that I likely stretched my engine mounts while doing the clutch job and the engine is now rolling while under load causing the pedal to move. If I recall, my transmission mount was a bit rough looking as well. I can snag all 3 for pretty cheap so I figured I'd change them out to see if that helps.

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ChrisHager
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Re: ChrisHager's 79 J-10 Build Thread

Post by ChrisHager »

I've been working on the steering lately. Here's a thread with more details: http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewtop ... 10&t=10162 Next on the list is a new pump.

Charles Kline
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Re: ChrisHager's 79 J-10 Build Thread

Post by Charles Kline »

Dang dude, awesome thread.

I love the color, the original photos are great, it was the exact opposite of my Honcho. You gotta get those stripes back on!

-Charles

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ChrisHager
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Re: ChrisHager's 79 J-10 Build Thread

Post by ChrisHager »

Small Update - The truck has been kind of on hold lately but I'm diving back in. I'm in the process of figuring out the steering shaft upgrade. Here's a new thread, if anyone has any thoughts: http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewtop ... 10&t=10928

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ChrisHager
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Re: ChrisHager's 79 J-10 Build Thread

Post by ChrisHager »

The steering shaft issue is pretty much resolved. The link above has the results.

Aside from that, another project rolled into the garage Saturday. It snugged right in next to the Jeep!

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