'78 Cherokee S Budget Restomod

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Topic author
Bareass
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Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:21 pm

'78 Cherokee S Budget Restomod

Post by Bareass »

Hey all.
I impulsively decided to buy a '78 Chekokee after seeing how much my JK build was going to cost, pulled the trigger on a '78 Cherkoee S Levi Edition, 360 Auto.
$_59.JPG
As far as I know, I'm the second owner. It was the seller's uncles, and had been sitting in a barn, with the last plate sticker being from '93. Not knowing much more than what i could find from a wee bit of searching, I looked over the truck, and found it to bein surprisingly good shape for South Western Ontario. A bunch of surface rust all over the belly pan and frame, but no visible cracks and no visible holes. Floor looked solid from what I could see. and minor rust around the fenders, rocker panels, and rear gate. Nothing too major. The owner didn't have the keys and wasn't sure if it will start, so i took a bit of a gamble there, but for the price, I was ok with it.
IMG_2788.jpg
IMG_2784.jpg
I got the rig home and started to give it a bit more of a look through. looks like mice made a nice home in the air breather, but the resident raccoon seemed to keep them out of the cab for the most part. :banghead:
The crap stained interior was actually in pretty good shape, maybe even better than my '08! Tan Levi seats, with all the buttons present. A bit of carpet and some of the side panels is torn up from the bed area, and there's a whole in the headliner, but not bad considering. Pulled the spark plugs, sprayed some penetrating oil into the cylinders, and the next day was able to turn the crank with a ratchet. What a relief!

I removed the rear window lock cylinder, and brought it to a locksmith, to have some keys made. Then I was able to check through the electronics. Turned the key, and to my surprise, radio: working, headlights: working, tail lights: working, corners: working, wipers: working, rear window: working, starter: not so much.... but everthing else is good! Quick starter swap, and the engine now cranks.

My plan is a very budget Restomod. Fixing the rust, and getting it somewhat presentable. Making the Jeep a driver. Mild offroading, winter driver, and maybe somthing to use hunting. I'm thinking a 4" lift, and maybe 33s. Maybe swapping more later down the road.

I pulled the rear brakes, and ripped out all for the brake rusted through brake lines. Removed the rear axle, decided to drop the tank too. I am hitting as much of the belly and frame as i can reach with a wire wheel, and giving it a generous smothering with POR15. I have new brake lines ready to install as soon as the new proportioning valve comes in, and have ordered a new fuel sender, and pickup, an Edlebrock 600 cfm four barrel carb, and an electric fuel pump. I have new Doug Thorley headers on their way as well.

As it stands right now, I need to address how I'm going to get the fuel from the tank, thinking about using hose instead of hard lines, for simplicity. I to wire the fuel pump and the electric choke, and hope the tranny is good!
Basicaly just need to get the jeep to start, run, drive and stop.... almost there!
I would love to hear some input and advice from you guys. I'm pretty decent with cars and repairs, but have not been around old Cherokees before, don't know much about them specifically
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Last edited by Bareass on Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:38 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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66stepside
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Re: '78 Cherokee S Budget Restomod

Post by 66stepside »

Looks like a good start- welcome!


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letank
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Re: '78 Cherokee S Budget Restomod

Post by letank »

78 is a good year, no finicky distributor that was on the 75-76 years. You have the duraspark, recheck the ground wire between frame and engine at the engine mount. I added extra ground as needed.
The quadra trac is good, looks like an unconverted version, no locking hubs, so you need the special oil for the transfer case.
As for the fuel pump, you can position it on the frame, left side between tank and transfer case

Image

you can check my links for ideas
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (229 Kmiles... the running test lab)

Topic author
Bareass
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Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:21 pm

Re: '78 Cherokee S Budget Restomod

Post by Bareass »

i was actually thinking about just mounting the pump on the driver's side front fender, near the horns.
what kind of lines did you use for your fuel?
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tgreese
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Location: Medford MA USA

Re: '78 Cherokee S Budget Restomod

Post by tgreese »

Check out the Quadratrac page here - http://jubileejeeps.org/quadratrac/index.htm

I would read everything on this page, and old posts here and at IFSJA about the Quadratrac. Use Google or Bing to search, ie "site:fsjnetwork.com Quadratrac"

Flint, the author of the above page, reads this forum and likely will respond to questions about the Quadratrac.

I strongly suggest you also get the TSM for 1978. They are inexpensive on CD-ROM from RockAuto. https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.ph ... 90&jsn=367

JMO - if I were on a tight budget, I would skip the engine mods for now. Also, headers are a poor choice for a Jeep, IMO. They are hot, noisy, fragile, short-lived, expensive, and leak a lot. Strictly race car tech. The factory iron manifolds are pretty good, and a free-flowing exhaust combined with those will work well and save a bunch of money and repair time. Suggest you get it running and driving, wheel it and sort out what you really need. If mine I would not front-load the project with changes that I had not demonstrated a need for based on my experience with the Jeep. These are real Jeeps, and will go a lot of places in factory trim. No need for a bunch of changes, given your description of what you want.

Do you have a low range?

I suggest the ammeter bypass.

Don't use hose in place of hard line. That's a recipe for a fire. BTDT (not my car, but I know). Buy bulk steel line (cheap) a good bender and make the fuel lines yourself. Not difficult.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/OE-Zinc-Automo ... 0005.m1851
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.

letank
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Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:16 pm
Location: SF bay area

Re: '78 Cherokee S Budget Restomod

Post by letank »

Bareass wrote:i was actually thinking about just mounting the pump on the driver's side front fender, near the horns.
what kind of lines did you use for your fuel?
Tim got it right, buy steel lines, it is inexpensive and last a long time.

As for the fuel pump mounting, on my latest project I found a smaller pump and mounted it below the horns, or on the lower end of the inner fender , very next to the frame rail... I had to bend the fuel lines a bit.
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (229 Kmiles... the running test lab)

Xplitive
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Location: York County, VA

Re: '78 Cherokee S Budget Restomod

Post by Xplitive »

Love it eh!
Erik
1989 GW, 31s on rancho front and general spring rear

Topic author
Bareass
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Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:21 pm

Re: '78 Cherokee S Budget Restomod

Post by Bareass »

i will look into hard lines and bending in that case. I just thought it would be easiest for getting the pump anywhere.
I also didn't realize that not all Quadratracs had low range, I kinda just assumed that was standard. I do have it though. Not sure if it works, but its there.
As for the headers, I am getting rid of the EGR as its all breaking apart. The right bank is in pretty lousy shape, I figured it would just be easier to swap out to new headers instead.
My budget isn't super tight, but i don't have the greatest of space to do a lot of the work, so body can't come off, and if it can't be done on simple stands, then it can't be done. I rather upgrade anything that needs to be changed, which is why i bought a new carb, headers, and going with a 4" lift instead of keeping the stock height

letank
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Re: '78 Cherokee S Budget Restomod

Post by letank »

Bareass wrote: I also didn't realize that not all Quadratracs had low range, I kinda just assumed that was standard. I do have it though. Not sure if it works, but its there.
Make sure to check the fluid level using the right fluid... as for shifting to low range, IIRC 78 has the lever on the floor by your right foot, not the lever under the dash / cigarette lighter level which are prone to rusting and hard to engage/disengage. If you cannot disengage, you can always turn off the engine, try again, then the next step is to crawl under the driver's side and use a 9/16 open end wrench and pull on the lever... This is what I have to do on the 74, really fun on a snowy, rainy , muddy day.... I carry a large piece of cardboard.

Also make sure that you have the right distributor, you should have the usual duraspark, but somebody may have installed the prestolite, which is easy to spot because of the dual white diaphragm... it is known have issues

78 could have the 3.54 gearing... check the tags on the pumpkins, either front or rear, as the tags sometimes are disposed during lube change

As usual you will need to lube the double cardan joint for the front driveshaft which is a real pita, as you need a needle adapter for the grease gun... probably all documented on Flint's site...

The fuel pump I used, picked up what was in the store

Image

and installed, quick and dirty, people say that these pumps are pusher, so it should be close to the gas tank... I had no time to fiddle, so here it is

Image

and another , I slightly bent the fuel lines and added fuel hoses as needed, it completed the 50mile trip without a hiccup, beside the 2 collapsed intake lifters...

Image
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (229 Kmiles... the running test lab)
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tgreese
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Re: '78 Cherokee S Budget Restomod

Post by tgreese »

Bareass wrote:i will look into hard lines and bending in that case. I just thought it would be easiest for getting the pump anywhere.
Yes, easy in the short term. Dangerous long term.
I also didn't realize that not all Quadratracs had low range, I kinda just assumed that was standard. I do have it though. Not sure if it works, but its there.
The low range was an option, and not available with all drive train combos. It's a separate planetary transmission that bolts to the back of the transfer case. They can be added or replaced easily, but they are not typically a service issue. I'd really want low range regardless of how else the Jeep were equipped.
As for the headers, I am getting rid of the EGR as its all breaking apart. The right bank is in pretty lousy shape, I figured it would just be easier to swap out to new headers instead. ...
Do you have the TSM? Section 4A covers the emissions systems. The EGR is not related to the exhaust manifolds. There is air injection (Air Guard) on the manifolds. Most would plug the injection ports if deleting the air injection. Really, the main problem you will have is breaking the manifold bolts when you try and remove the exhaust manifolds.

I worked at a Jeep dealer back in the day, and the mechanics would get the manifolds rocket hot if they wanted to remove an exhaust manifold. This involved a high-speed run on the local freeway, into the shop, and a careful removal of the bolts. NB this was for cars that were fairly new, not 40 years old. Considering where you are, the age of the Jeep, and your level of experience, I predict you are going to break a few bolts removing the manifolds. The simplest (and most effective) way to deal with this is to take the heads off and have your local machine shop remove the broken bolts. If the manifolds don't leak now, I'd be very much inclined to leave them in place and instead attempt to remove the AI tubes and plug them. Lots of older threads about this here and on IFSJA.

Sorry to be such a buzzkill, but have you tested the compression? What's the hot idle oil pressure, and the cruising oil pressure? Adding performance accessories to a tired engine will be disappointing and may exacerbate other issues with the engine.

Also, my boss at the Jeep dealership ran his Jeepster race cars and other Jeep factory racers in the Baja and desert races. They all ran the factory iron manifolds. Likely there is a muffler shop near you that is well known for custom work, and they can build a sturdy dual exhaust that will stand up to trail use, be as quiet (or loud - ugh) as you want, and last a long time. Up to you - it's your Jeep.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.
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tgreese
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Re: '78 Cherokee S Budget Restomod

Post by tgreese »

Sorry if this seems like piling on, but if you want to get on the road quickly, the original mechanical fuel pump works fine. The electric pumps have some advantages, but they don't do much more than the mechanical pumps for carbureted engines. The usual objective with switching is to cure dry bowl syndrome, where the carburetor float bowl dries out from sitting, and the electric pump will fill the bowl without the engine running. Ask about it in the tech forum and you'll get lots of discusson, though it's been a recurring topic if you'd like to look at old threads.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.

Topic author
Bareass
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:21 pm

Re: '78 Cherokee S Budget Restomod

Post by Bareass »

Letank, that is the same pump I bought. I too have read that they are pushers, so I will look to see if there is a spot I like closer to the tank. I decided to go with the electric fuel because I have to change the lines anyways and the Jeep hasn't been started in 25 years. Not knowing if the mechanical pump works, I just wanted to remove it from the equation.
I'm not inexperienced with cars or modifying/rebuilding, I just don't know the specifics of this particular vehicle like I do my Wrangler or the couple of Alfa Romeos I have. Much more familiar with fuel injection than carbs.

letank
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Re: '78 Cherokee S Budget Restomod

Post by letank »

Bareass wrote:Letank, that is the same pump I bought. I too have read that they are pushers, so I will look to see if there is a spot I like closer to the tank. I decided to go with the electric fuel because I have to change the lines anyways and the Jeep hasn't been started in 25 years. Not knowing if the mechanical pump works, I just wanted to remove it from the equation.
I'm not inexperienced with cars or modifying/rebuilding, I just don't know the specifics of this particular vehicle like I do my Wrangler or the couple of Alfa Romeos I have. Much more familiar with fuel injection than carbs.
Alfas and Jeeps you are now a repeat offender.

For the fuel pump,I forgot to mention that the 40 miles where at a steady 60-65 mph with a little push at 70... and 90F day.

You can run a short rubber line on the frame rail with a pre filter as I did on the above pictures.

The edelbrock fuel pump is nice because it is encased in plastic, so it is fairly quiet unlike the carter ipreviously mentioned that need to be mounted on a isolated rubber stand provided in the kit.

The mechanical fuel pump are nice, but when they fail, you may dump raw fuel inside the timing cover and contaminate your oil which is not good for your bearings. Yes our carb seems to drain because of the reformulated gas, and on a hot day, the gas evaporates. With the E pump, a little prime for 5 to 8 sec and even after 6 months the engine will crank right away.

TIm has a good point on the header and how to remove the current exhaust manifold
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (229 Kmiles... the running test lab)
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243
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Location: Texas

Re: '78 Cherokee S Budget Restomod

Post by 243 »

I am partial to NT Cherokee's, especially 78's.

You will need a regulator if that was not mentioned earlier. I agree with Tim, the stock mechanical pump is fine.
1978 Cherokee NT, 5.3/4L60/NP241 in Progress

Topic author
Bareass
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Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:21 pm

Re: '78 Cherokee S Budget Restomod

Post by Bareass »

Suspension question....
Is there anyway to get the rear springs off without removing the rear shackle?

If not, I thought I hear that the xj shackles are the same as the fsj, and that the front and rear are the same, is this true for '78?
Thank you

1979bettywhite
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Re: '78 Cherokee S Budget Restomod

Post by 1979bettywhite »

You can remove the springs from the higher mount of the rear shackle if you just want to replace the rear springs. Should be able to access that bolt pretty easily. No need to remove the whole shackle. Although I will say if you are going to the trouble of replacing springs, go ahead and get the shackles out of there to replace the bushings, or just replace the whole shackle. Yes, it may require cutting the bolt out. But you don't want to have to be back in there replacing bushings a couple months down the road because the jeep is wandering in the lane on you due to worn out shackle bushings.

I did not replace mine when I did my lift, but looking back, I wish I had. Still may go back in there and replace mine when I finally get the motivation to struggle with those rear springs.....

Topic author
Bareass
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Re: '78 Cherokee S Budget Restomod

Post by Bareass »

I figured that as well. I tried just removing the spring, but the head of the bolt butts up against the frame, and i cant rotate the shackle enough to try to get it to clear. I ordered new shackles, but I can't get the shackle bolt to budge at all. Not sure how I'm going to tackle that, but it might be waiting until the spring.
Its funny how some of the easiest jobs are the biggest problems! I still can't get the front passenger wheel off! :P
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bwwhaler
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Re: '78 Cherokee S Budget Restomod

Post by bwwhaler »

About the electric fuel pump... buy a spare, and carry it with you, they always seem to fizzle at the worst time, ask me how I know... I always carry a spare with me now, they are cheap, Chinese pumps.
1987 GW 360/727/229 Performer intake Holley 670 32's 4" BJ's Springs CS-144 Serehill's light and tailgate harness
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FLeetFox
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Re: '78 Cherokee S Budget Restomod

Post by FLeetFox »

is that an old Mack B73 in the background of the first pic? Love the Cherokee, good unadulterated condition.

Fleet Fox
I do things my way, and I pay a high price.... JCM

Topic author
Bareass
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Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:21 pm

Re: '78 Cherokee S Budget Restomod

Post by Bareass »

it is an old Mac, i think he said it was a '56, but not sure the model. i thought about it lol.
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