77 wagoneer dd

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Topic author
superdave
Posts: 182
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Location: Indiana

Re: 77 wagoneer dd

Post by superdave »

will e wrote:The lever looks like it was used to select which fuel tank. Does it have a second fuel tank directly behind the rear axle?
Short answer no, and I didn't see anything when I replaced the lower fuel filler hose, but I pulled the carpet in back yesterday, and you can clearly see the marks in the floor where a tank used to sit. Interesting. I'll pull the lever and close the hole when I get to working on the the front of the floor. Thanks!
letank wrote:the loose red and white wire is the bypass wire used during cranking and goes on the unused post on the starter solenoid...

the other brown, needs to be tested for polarity, but i suspect the (+) for the compressor, see where is the other end of the compressor wire goes to... or the idle solenoid power, but test before, the idle solenoid is not fused, the compressor is fused at the fuse panel
Thanks, I'll do some digging. I'm slowly making some sense of the wiring diagrams, but it takes me a bit.
Dave Knoerzer
1977 Wagoneer 360/400/QT stock as far as I can tell

Topic author
superdave
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:18 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: 77 wagoneer dd

Post by superdave »

My plan was to drain and inspect the diffs yesterday, but I decided to start cleaning out the interior instead. It's funny- parts of the body look great, and parts right next to it look terrible. The area behind the rear fenders is rotted out so after pulling the passenger inside panel I could see the exhaust pipe. The floor looks good, but I see what everyone talks about with quality control and seam sealer. I'm nervous that the carpet and dirt underneath were holding the body together. I can see light between the floor and rear fenders. Lots to do to make it presentable and road worthy. ImageImageImageImageImage

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Dave Knoerzer
1977 Wagoneer 360/400/QT stock as far as I can tell

Topic author
superdave
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:18 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: 77 wagoneer dd

Post by superdave »

Side note- I wont be reusing the trunk area side panels or the stainless(?) floor strips, so if anyone needs them, or the 2 rear speaker grills, or the hardware off the back of the side panels, let me know. I'll get them cleaned up and post them in the ads section eventually. I also have a spare tire cover and the strip of carpet that goes on the ledge under the back seat.ImageImageImage

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Dave Knoerzer
1977 Wagoneer 360/400/QT stock as far as I can tell

letank
Posts: 4010
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:16 pm
Location: SF bay area

Re: 77 wagoneer dd

Post by letank »

superdave wrote:The area behind the rear fenders is rotted out so after pulling the passenger inside panel I could see the exhaust pipe.
Most of the 70's are like that, I suspect that the along the poor/lack body seams work, the spot welding on an moving line, some points did not made it, add the failing/drying body mount are not soft enough to smooth out vibration and body roll. Looking at Jap cars, the seam sealer looks like a big roller went 5" across most of any steel work. In fact the 85 wag transmission cover had so much seam sealer rolled on the edges that it took a long time to remove, unlike the 74 that had none.

There is a video about the line of the little cherokee, the line is moving and guys are trying to keep up to spotweld parts, it is amazing that vehicles made it after so many years...

could not find the video, but the later versions with the Renault production, check around 4:40 for the FSJ paint job, and at the end 7:48ish for the test...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-VC-g9-V-U
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (229 Kmiles... the running test lab)

Topic author
superdave
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:18 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: 77 wagoneer dd

Post by superdave »

letank wrote:
superdave wrote:The area behind the rear fenders is rotted out so after pulling the passenger inside panel I could see the exhaust pipe.
Most of the 70's are like that, I suspect that the along the poor/lack body seams work, the spot welding on an moving line, some points did not made it, add the failing/drying body mount are not soft enough to smooth out vibration and body roll.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-VC-g9-V-U
I'm slightly concerned it might all fall apart after I take the front carpet out! :P
Dave Knoerzer
1977 Wagoneer 360/400/QT stock as far as I can tell

1979bettywhite
Posts: 547
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:14 am

Re: 77 wagoneer dd

Post by 1979bettywhite »

I have the same issues with my Cherokee around the wheel well to floor seam, although the metal seems to be in good condition. The seam sealer is basically gone. What I am doing is pulling all of it out that I can, wire brushing, and cleaning. Then I am putting down some POR 15 with some fiberglass mat. Should keep the water out and seal things. Have thought about using a putty of some kind, but I am sure it will dry and crack down the road. Plus I had the POR 15 and fiberglass leftover due to repairing a couple other spots in the interior.

Topic author
superdave
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:18 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: 77 wagoneer dd

Post by superdave »

1979bettywhite wrote:I have the same issues with my Cherokee around the wheel well to floor seam, although the metal seems to be in good condition. The seam sealer is basically gone. What I am doing is pulling all of it out that I can, wire brushing, and cleaning. Then I am putting down some POR 15 with some fiberglass mat. Should keep the water out and seal things. Have thought about using a putty of some kind, but I am sure it will dry and crack down the road. Plus I had the POR 15 and fiberglass leftover due to repairing a couple other spots in the interior.
Thanks, that's pretty much what I had in mind. I'll garage it for the winter and my plan is to do the entire floor and ceiling, behind the side panels, the entire underbody, and the frame. It's going to see a lot of snow and salt once I start driving it full time, so I need to do my best to seal and protect everything possible.
Dave Knoerzer
1977 Wagoneer 360/400/QT stock as far as I can tell

1979bettywhite
Posts: 547
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:14 am

Re: 77 wagoneer dd

Post by 1979bettywhite »

Good luck. I was underneath mine yesterday, thinking about doing the same. It's a pretty daunting task to undertake doing all the underbody with the body still on the frame. But snow and salt will cause some havoc for your exposed steel frame. Don't forget it's always better if you can get back to bare metal before doing something like that. And as you know, most of our rigs have pretty good layers of dirt, grime, grease etc.

Topic author
superdave
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:18 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: 77 wagoneer dd

Post by superdave »

1979bettywhite wrote:Good luck. I was underneath mine yesterday, thinking about doing the same. It's a pretty daunting task to undertake doing all the underbody with the body still on the frame. But snow and salt will cause some havoc for your exposed steel frame. Don't forget it's always better if you can get back to bare metal before doing something like that. And as you know, most of our rigs have pretty good layers of dirt, grime, grease etc.
Yea, if I can get to it soon enough before the weather changes, I might look into rolling the frame out from under, but that means booting the wife's car out of the garage, and I'm not sure I can fit a frame, body, and air mattress in my tiny garage...

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Dave Knoerzer
1977 Wagoneer 360/400/QT stock as far as I can tell

1979bettywhite
Posts: 547
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:14 am

Re: 77 wagoneer dd

Post by 1979bettywhite »

Air mattress in the back of the jeep. Problem solved.


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Topic author
superdave
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:18 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: 77 wagoneer dd

Post by superdave »

1979bettywhite wrote:Air mattress in the back of the jeep. Problem solved. Image


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Brilliant! I can rent it out on Airbnb as a "rustic experience" to pay for jeep parts too.

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Dave Knoerzer
1977 Wagoneer 360/400/QT stock as far as I can tell

Topic author
superdave
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:18 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: 77 wagoneer dd

Post by superdave »

Well I didnt get much done this weekend other than clean and organize the garage, but now that I can get the Jeep back in the garage the battery was dead. I'll pick up a charger tonight. That brings me back to wiring questions...

Looking at the bulkhead connection, are they all melted or is that some sort of funky old grease? If it's melted, how bad is it?Image

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Dave Knoerzer
1977 Wagoneer 360/400/QT stock as far as I can tell

1979bettywhite
Posts: 547
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:14 am

Re: 77 wagoneer dd

Post by 1979bettywhite »

Same as mine. I think maybe it was some sort of 70s era "waterproofing"?

Topic author
superdave
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:18 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: 77 wagoneer dd

Post by superdave »

1979bettywhite wrote:Same as mine. I think maybe it was some sort of 70s era "waterproofing"?
Thanks. I didn't think they'd all be burned up and melted, but I thought I'd ask.
Dave Knoerzer
1977 Wagoneer 360/400/QT stock as far as I can tell

Topic author
superdave
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:18 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: 77 wagoneer dd

Post by superdave »

Ok I need some electrical help here. 2 weekends ago I completed the ammeter bypass on Saturday, following this thread:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=105253
Fired up like a champ when I was done. I did not do anything under the dash yet. The next day, I started it and moved it to pull out some carpet, then didn't touch it all week. This past Sunday, I finally cleaned the garage back up to park it inside again, and it wouldn't start. The seatbelt warning light and radio came on and I got a click from the starter solenoid, but no crank. I tried jumping it with my car, but still no crank. Monday I grabbed a charger and left it on over night, Tuesday and today it's completely dead, no signs of life.

Could I have messed up somewhere in the ammeter bypass? I'm not sure where I could go wrong. One idea I have is I have a pretty good oil leak somewhere on the back of the engine that's running down by the starter - could it have shorted there and drained the battery? My other idea is there's something wrong under the dash. PO kept blowing fuses on the cluster lights and I haven't been able to get them working at all. Could a short under the dash have drained the battery like that?
Dave Knoerzer
1977 Wagoneer 360/400/QT stock as far as I can tell

1979bettywhite
Posts: 547
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:14 am

Re: 77 wagoneer dd

Post by 1979bettywhite »

Check the starter solenoid. You can bypass it by using a set of jumper cables. May have gone bad on you as they tend to do. I had the same symptoms as you the other day. At least that is where I would start my discovery. Especially if it has already fired up after the bypass.

A short could definitely drain the battery. Check it with a multimeter to see if you have 12+V. Also, as always, check your grounds while you are at it. And get that valve cover gasket replaced/fixed ;)

Topic author
superdave
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:18 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: 77 wagoneer dd

Post by superdave »

1979bettywhite wrote:Check the starter solenoid. You can bypass it by using a set of jumper cables. May have gone bad on you as they tend to do. I had the same symptoms as you the other day. At least that is where I would start my discovery. Especially if it has already fired up after the bypass.

A short could definitely drain the battery. Check it with a multimeter to see if you have 12+V. Also, as always, check your grounds while you are at it. And get that valve cover gasket replaced/fixed ;)
Thanks. I'll pull the battery, charge it, then see about testing that. I'm taking it to my friend's house that's a mechanic next week for him to tear down and reseal the engine, but I need to get it there!
Dave Knoerzer
1977 Wagoneer 360/400/QT stock as far as I can tell

1979bettywhite
Posts: 547
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:14 am

Re: 77 wagoneer dd

Post by 1979bettywhite »

Did you check the voltage of the battery before you put it on charge? Or does the charger tell you the current voltage?

Topic author
superdave
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:18 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: 77 wagoneer dd

Post by superdave »

1979bettywhite wrote:Did you check the voltage of the battery before you put it on charge? Or does the charger tell you the current voltage?
I did not. I suppose I can do that first.
Dave Knoerzer
1977 Wagoneer 360/400/QT stock as far as I can tell

Topic author
superdave
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:18 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: 77 wagoneer dd

Post by superdave »

So I've been digging around looking under the hood and looking at the tsm's to sort out what's what and take inventory. Turns out the only thing left of the emission systems is the passenger side air tube and a disconnected egr valve. Indiana has some basic emissions so my plan is to add back egr, pcv, and a cat and see if it will pass. Any input there will be appreciated.

Also found some fun things, including a strange plastic box stuck to the fender with a magnet by the horn as well as a wooden golf tee plugging what I assume is a vacuum port on the carb.

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Dave Knoerzer
1977 Wagoneer 360/400/QT stock as far as I can tell
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