83 Cherokee education through restoration

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Florida83FSJCherokee
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83 Cherokee education through restoration

Post by Florida83FSJCherokee »

ok here begins the transfers. I changed the title for this forum because its closer to what it should be. This process is really turning out to be an amazing learning process for me....
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Re: 83 Cherokee education through restoration

Post by Florida83FSJCherokee »

Hello to everyone hear on the boards. Ive been reading for a while now and Im honestly excited to be able to post this thread and hopefully share this process with you folks.

This is my new 83 Cherokee , cost me $2500bucks drove it 3 hours home at 65mph.... and thats about all I know. LOL :)

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So to begin this process i am calling on all of you to help me with the what, who, and where's of the Jeep.

I know its Maroon, (i believe its the original color)
I know it has a 258 L6 and a 5 speed manual trans. (Personlly, I think this is a freak'n awesome combo!)
I know it was Nutmeg interior originally and is now a painted grey nutmeg interior with what appears to be two beautifully comfy waggy seats ;)

It runs and drives like a champ, starts instantly, stops good, and steers like my dads old boat. Got a flowmaster to!, score.

For a Florida Truck this thing is kinda great on the rust issues. Normally, floor pans, rockers, fenders, and anything metal are gone in a 30 year old truck , but this thing is almost clean....One small hole in the passenger floor board, which will be very simple to repair and the unfortunate worst issue it has is some rusting of the upper windshield piller joints. AHHH!!!!

So as I said, I am now calling on you all to help me with the rest. Ive restored a VW bus, a 69 Chevey Pickup and an 51 ford truck, but this is my first Jeep of anykind. (except for my college roommates wagoneer that i barrowed constantly and that is directly responsible for planting the FSJ seed in my brain, thanks Conor, :))

Questions :
What axels/and diff's do I have and how can I find out?
What kind of ignition does this look like? It looks like a GMC but does that cross over?
Carb?
Looks like its lifted a lil bit?
What the hell do I do to fix the rusted corner pillers?
What model Cherokee do we think it is? Looks W/T to me but ?

Anyway, Im going to post some pictures and I will photo document all the repairs and installations and post them as I accomplish them. Plans are to clean it up, paint it blue, replace all the seals, polish or replace the trim, and replace the original nutmeg interior.

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THANK YOU! for your input and any suggestions you may have

Jonathan P
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Florida83FSJCherokee
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Re: 83 Cherokee education through restoration

Post by Florida83FSJCherokee »

So I have complied a checklist/outline for the restoration process. For once the project doesnt need any major mechanical issues fixed first before I can start on the main body of the project list.

Below is the rough to do list. I will try to mark completed or aquired items as I accomplish and or obtain them, and will post pics when I do,


Cherokee Checklist:

Exterior/Body –
1. Remove Rear door/tailgate rust in lower driver side corner. (decided to buy a replacement as the current door is already a mix of rust and fiberglass)
2. Passenger floor panel rust repair
3. Hole in Cargo area floor /center by tail gate
4. Fabricate cover for fuel tank access panel under rear seat (completed)
5. Locate/acquire emblems and decals
6. Roof rack completion ( missing 2 horizontal support cross rails) (completed)
7. Window Pillar rust repair
8. Both driver and passenger vent window frames are rusting (replacements fell through...still looking)
9. Remove and Polish trim/replace any beyond repair
10. Remove and Polish bumpers
11. Remove grill and front end accessories/polish
12. Buy a Complete seal kit for all doors and windows
13. Sand and prep for paint…. (sorry pin striping, but goodbye flames)
14. Paint – full exterior and interior
Interior –
1. Strip it!
a. Seats out/ carpet out
b. Remove the Grey Paint from everywhere ( P.O., why? : / )
c. Panels off
d. Vacuum and clean/degrease

2. Locate –
A. Original Nutmeg interior
1. Driver and passenger seats (located and aquired )
2. Rear seat
3. Door panels (located and aquired)
4. Door arm rest and arm rest for rear passenger area (located and aquired)
5. Door pulls (loacted and aquired)
6. Passenger dash pull (repaired original)
7. Visors and fasteners ( located and aquired) Thanks rocklaurence! (need plastic covers!!!!)
8. Nutmeg Headliner trim (located and aquired)
9. Nutmeg Seat belts ( located and Aquired!)
10. Replacement nutmeg carpet set (Full , need to order )
11. Steering wheel
12. Headliner fabric
B. Original style gauge cluster (located and aquired)
C. Power window trim plates driver and passenger (located and aquired)
D. Interior cargo chrome strips (located and aquired)
E. Interior rear door chrome strips (located and aquired)
F. Interior accessories
1. Chrome bezels
2. Clock insert (located and aquired)
3. Overhead light/ installation
4. Ash trays for rear passenger area (located and aquired)
G. Door speakers/installation (aquired and installed)
H. Rear speaker up grade/ installation

Mechanical –
1. Fuel smell when accelerating (posting thread for HELP 12/26/12), (FIXED! posted results below in thread somewhere)

2. Exhaust - repair section immediately before, including ,and after the cat. (possibly just re run entire system)(repaired, but will be re-running the system when the motor is pulled for refurb)

3. Rear window – goes up slowly and sometimes needs help - power drain, simple grease issue , rear door switch?(fixed by replacing the door)

4. Address mechanical seals bumper to bumper (LOW PRIORITY nothing is leaking very badly)

5. Steering is loose so eventual front end re-furb needed

6. The unknown devil hiding and waiting for me to try and take a long trip...

7. Fuel sender unit replacement/ vent grommet seals (finished 2/3/13)

8. Additonal projects expected and unexpected....

1. Carburetor replacement ; ( (removed and awaiting return from rebuild shop) (completed)
2. Engine bay Clean up (completed)
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Re: 83 Cherokee education through restoration

Post by Florida83FSJCherokee »

So I followed the advice of the board, and did the fuel odor troubleshoot this afternoon. I’ve taken some photos of the different points of inspection and of the odors perpetrator.

First I checked the fuel filter and its return fuel connection. The photo shows the Y on the carburetor side of the filter and both these hoses appeared to be in decent condition. No leaks or odors were detected either at the idle or during engine acceleration. The fuel return line runs down into a second rubber hose and it was solid as well. From there it runs as a steel line into a central fuel line gathering point attached to the frame, and from there back along the frame and up above the fuel tank itself. None of these connections were wet or leaking so the mystery persisted.
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While inspecting the engine compartment I noticed that there were zero fuel odors in that area, but while there were no leaks detected, the cabin of the truck was steadily getting saturated with fuel odor. At this point I decided to remove the rear seat and inspect the access panel area. I was already aware of the absence of the cover to this panel but was surprised at what I discovered upon removal of the seat and carpet.
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The fuel sending unit had been repaired/replaced? By the PO, however it was here inside the access panel that I discovered the source of the leaking fumes. The photos show the two fuel lines entering the tank and an unknown rubber plug or seal just under the lip of the access panel. Two of the three connections we not secured. One of the fuel lines moves in and out of the tank, and the unknown plug is pushed up and will not seal. The white goop was apparently an attempt to close these openings ,but it had failed.  When the engine is running and even more so upon acceleration the access panel actually blows a breeze of fuel fumes out of the panel. Most of the flow comes from the rear plug but the entire unit looks wore and faulty.
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So….I believe I am correct in assuming that the tank will need to be dropped in order to repair this area and I feel like if I’m going to drop a 30 year old fuel tank I might as well put one of the replacement options from BJ’s offoad back in its place. (Who knows what kind of crap is developed inside the original tank). A replacement sending unit seems to be in order as well. If the pieces shown in the photo will not be included with either of those two replacements what other parts should I order?
I ask the boards advice for this next step…

So…. Mystery solved but still one issue other than the tank left and that’s the fuel access panel cover. Since I have to order the rest I figured I would fabricate a new cover so it is at least sealed off from the inside and might be slightly more tolerable until the replacements are ordered and installed.

I have included photos of this process. Not an overly complicated project but still a Saturday evenings worth of fun. I used stuff that I had in my work rig for shoeing horses so laugh away at the crossover of supplies. If anyone else is missing theirs here’s what I did….

1. Grabbed an aluminum plate ¼’’ thick

2. As a rubber seal I used a horseshoe pad 1/8th ‘’ thick, firm but moldable.
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3. Measure the diameter of the access panel but be careful to measure from the flat and not into the beveled edge of the opening.
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4. Use calipers and set them to half the distance of the diameter.
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5. Dig one end of the calipers into the plate’s rough center point and score the circle onto the plate. A three inch caliper yields a 6 inch circle. Etc.…
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6. I used some handy homemade vice grip grabber thingys and a 4.5’’ grinder/cut off wheel to knock off the excess from the corners (if you have a band saw this is probably easier to do with it but I don’t have a metal blade so this had to do)

(Also… the pliers are just cheap vice grips and a metal rasp cut and welded on top and bottom. The trick to making these it to use the cheapest vice grips possible, “harbor freight” , because the cheap ones are easier to weld on than the nice ones. )
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7. Use a grinder wheel and grind to your reference mark around the circumference of the circle. Once you have it dialed in use a fine grit belt and smooth the edges so they don’t rip you to pieces.

(Aluminum clogs belts so a good trick is to run a bar of soap into the grits beforehand, sound stupid but saves a lot of money in the long run from premature wear on belts)
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8. Bevel the edge of the plate to accommodate for the beveled edge around the panels opening. This allows a flush/ full fit.
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9. Check the width at the bottom of the plate and if correct trace and cut the rubber pad.
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10. I used a special adhesive that I use to glue horseshoes to horse feet when they have too much damage to nail into. It is honestly a ripped of version of auto body seam sealer, redesigned to cure at a lower temperature so it can be applied without harming the animal.
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11. It was cold so I used a hairdryer to jumpstart the chemical reaction within the glue. (This is an old hair dryer; I would not recommend using your wife or girlfriends. ; ) )

12. Set the pads edge to the same bevel as the plate

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13. Next measure the distance from the mounting surface to the center hole so you know how much distance you have to fasten your screws into. I use calipers to set the distance and then use another set of calipers to equally space the holes so I get an even seal. If you notice in the earlier pics the bottom is 6 inches but the top is 6 and1/8" because of the bevel. this accounts for the 1/8 inch needed to get your screws to bite at the same location/dpth as the factory holes.

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14. Use a drill press and pre-drill the holes through both the plate and padding.

15. I used self-tapping sheet metal screws and secured it to the panels lip. Notice I left out the area where the hoses run into the tank and I also made sure that I didn’t use to long a screw and penetrate the tank itself.
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So next is the new tanks and sending unit… hopefully this will cut down the odor enough to drive the rig without getting buzzed on fuel, but at least I have an answer.

Thanks for reading and if you have any comments or suggestions for fabing or replacing the tank and sender unit please chime in. All info is helpful!

Thanks JP
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Re: 83 Cherokee education through restoration

Post by Florida83FSJCherokee »

Yesterday I worked for hours at this next phase of the Cherokee's cleanup.

The PO's taste and my own are slightly different, so the custom rustoleum interior was in need of a facelift. (If liftable)...

If I was only going to use the jeep for off-roading and mudding I don’t think it would bother me as much, but it’s so cool and so nice that I think it deserves better than this.

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The plan is to put it back to the original interior; not to put a completely new/redone interior in it. So today’s goal was to clean up as much as would be cleanable, especially the parts and pieces that are no longer available for purchase.

The truck originally came with the nutmeg color option, and I was lucky enough to score these original seats from a local "parting out" add. They will be the basis for the rest of the refurb. All the replacement pieces will need to be in the same or better condition in order to have good continuity within the cab. Your job is only as good as the weakest link….

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I’ll have to order carpet, headliner, and some dash trim/instrument pieces, but I think I’m going to opt for the dash to be painted the same color I decide to paint the truck.

Used Door panels came with the seats but they were a little worse for wear and faded. Since they aren’t available anymore new, and fairly costly when gently used, I figured a good effort at reviving the originals was in order, painted or not.

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I’m going to use the extra sets boards as patterns since the originals are slightly!!!! disintegrated, and re-stretch the cleaned originals over them; hopefully getting a stronger, cleaner, longer lasting replacement. The passenger dash pull strap, steering wheel, horn button, chrome trim, and the assorted arm rest are also on the cleanup list since they also seem to be fairly difficult to locate.

Paint remover, a wire brush, and good old elbow grease will be the ticket for the panels , but I have a secret weapon in store for the chrome…

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Round 1 – Ding Ding ….
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Round 1 – Draw


Round Two –Ding Ding...
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Round 2 – Advantage Elbows

Round 3 – Ding Ding
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Round 3- rustoleum’s against the ropes!

Round -4 Ding Ding
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Round 4 – Winner by TKO ….Elbow power!

Unfortunatly it got dark : (

I removed the old rotten boarding and layed them flat to dry. Next time I get a chance to work on her I will cut new backing boards, restretch the covers, replace all the chrome trim, and try to do the steering wheel....
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So, here’s a little trick for the chrome trim…
New chrome and trim can be ridiculously expensive to buy and the little stuff is often irreplaceable. So, instead of spending money on the replacements (if they are even out there), go to your preferred home improvement store, and instead use that money to buy a small bench top grinder. I use a delta adjustable speed 1/3rd HP model ($80). Instead of installing the Stone Age grinding disc that come with them, get two cloth buffing wheels. You will need “rouge” as well, so get one mild polishing compound and one scratch free polishing compound. Play with the speeds and wheel loads on some scrap pieces and when you get the feel, gently and patiently work the trim items until you achieve the appropriate cleanliness/shine. For the cost of just a few replacement pieces you can have the ability to repair every piece on your rig to a cleaner almost new condition. Here are some before and after’s and below is a link to photos of what I’m talking about.

Before:
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After:
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Buffer/grinder links:

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http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Delta-Gr100 ... 3f208f60dd

http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-x-40- ... -RPM/H3379

http://www.grizzly.com/products/category/100010

Thanks for checking it out and I hope to have some finished panels by next week! Fingers crossed...
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Re: 83 Cherokee education through restoration

Post by Florida83FSJCherokee »

"response to a members question on what type of rouge I use to get the meatal scratches out and such a clean finish...

Relpy:
Its a scratchless jewelers pink. Google search "jestco products scratches pink jeweler buffing compound" . Its like like $ 10- $15 for a three pound brick. Use it as your final step and make sure the cloth wheel you dedicate to it never gets used for any other type.
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Re: 83 Cherokee education through restoration

Post by Florida83FSJCherokee »

So…. This week was a decent week for the progression of the Cherokee…
The parts hunt yielded great results at a time when my schedule is still flexible and based on holiday availability.

I managed to track down:
Headliner trim pieces that I was missing – they are in good shape but will need to be refurb’ed with the paint “CJ5” was so nice to share.
Rear door chrome trim and inner chrome trim
Visors
Rear door (zero rust, totally smooth functioning rear window with defrost..) the current door needs hours of body work and the window quite frankly sucks… lol
The roof rack and the cargo strips. These are going to need a few hours on the buffer, ; )
Extra set of door handles ( hopefully I can create 1 decent set of door handles from the 2 : ) I have…

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Hopefully I can get theses door panels redone this weekend...
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Re: 83 Cherokee education through restoration

Post by Florida83FSJCherokee »

So today I started fitting the cleaned panel covers to new backing boards.

This took way longer than I thought it would, but turned out decent.

At the local home improvement store I picked up some perforated panel board 1/8th inch thick , insulated backing material, spray adhesive, and some 5/16 by 8mm staples. (I actually got 3/8th by 10mm staples but they were to big/long and I had to go back for the smaller size).

To begin I chose the best back board from the two donor panels. Even it was missing a large section but it had the necessary layout of holes and attachments so it was good enough. It was carefully removed from the cover and used to mark out the new boards.
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A jig saw worked great for cutting the panels out and also for cutting the slots for the window controls and the door speaker. A hole drill was used to cut out the openings for the arm rest and door handle.
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Once back inside I pulled the cover onto the board to check that I had enough material to secure it. I needed to trim one of the panels about an 1/8th inch so I’m glad I checked.
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Using the old template I marked the locations of the door panel fastener holes. The hole size was determined from the template and was, I believe, 3/8th inch. These were inserted at this stage because I wasn’t sure if the leather would make attaching them impossible once it was covering the area.
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I realized at this point that I only had enough door panel fasteners to make one complete panel so I focused on finishing one panel completely and the other as far as was possible.
Tonight I will order some fasteners and the leather strap pulls since they didn’t clean up from the paint very well. Once they arrive I will knock the other panel out.

I marked the speaker location and got it cut out at this point so it wouldn’t be a hassle after the cover was mounted.
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The next step was to simply lay the cover out and place the backing board on top of it. Then starting at the corners and working back and forth around the panels’ edge I stretched the fabric tightly and stapled it in place.
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The insulated backing was an addition to the panel’s original design. It made sense to insulate the door and I think I will follow suit behind the kick panels and under/in front of the dash. I’m interested to know if I can use this on the roof in between the metal and headliner. Anyone ever done that before?
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Anyway, the insulation needed to be trimmed and I did that with a sharp pair of scissors. The speaker mounted easily though the upgraded panel material, and I pre-drilled 1/8th inch holes for the chrome strips to push through and fasten to.

Just to see what it would look like I laid the other trim pieces on…
So I’m happy that I decided to strip the paint, these turned out really great and I’m chomping at the bit to do some other projects.
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Next on the to-do list is to have the exhaust redone, and rebuild a working gauge cluster to replace the PO’s plywood version. The exhaust I will have to hire out, but I’m planning to order the replacement gauge inserts from BJ’s off-road and re-furb a cluster panel that I’m hoping to get locally (hint… hint… Rocky : ) )

Also, the fuel sending unit, seals, and vent grommets are on their way from BJ's, so as soon as they arrive I will get the fume leak taken care of. However, the access panel cap has completely removed the fuel smell from inside the cabin! So! Nice! To go cruising without that darn fuel smell.


Thanks for checking it out and chime in with any tips, info, or whatever.

JP

ohh!!! - this is kinda important. I registerd the jeep yeaterday!
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Re: 83 Cherokee education through restoration

Post by Florida83FSJCherokee »

First… Thanks to everyone for the advice and links of information,

I’m self-employed and my business revolves around a repeating five week cycle. The previous three weeks are my busiest and it unfortunately leaves very little time to work on outside projects. Coupled with that is my now 6 month old little girl, and a wife that deservingly needs a little adult interaction time when I finally do get home.

So in the time I do find for myself I have been taking full advantage of the forums archives and reading everything! I can. This thing is incredible, so much information and advice, from so many different peoples perspectives.

I was lucky enough to get a hold of some missing components over the last few weeks. The instrument panel and in dash clock were a huge score provided by fellow member “Centexjeeper”, and I appreciate his efforts in pulling the parts and carefully shipping them.

BJ’s off-road and Team Grand Wagoneer was sourced for some other parts, like the fuel sender unit and vent grommets (BJ’s), and the door handles and panel board fasteners (for the other door panel) from team grand wagoner. If anyone from TGW reads this, your packaging was horrible and luckily the parts inside were ok bouncing loosely inside the oversized box. Considering people will be/have been spending lots of money with you I’m surprised your shipping policy is so under monitored. BJ’s will be getting my business for everything I can get from them in the future. Unfortunately, I have found a few items only available from TGW but my purchases from them will be minimalized to only these pieces.

Another local find includes the seat belts in Nutmeg and hopefully, fingers crossed, the front vent windows. They are near perfect replacement condition but the gentleman isn’t sure he can get them out. In all honesty it’s a lengthy process considering the entire window assembly has to be removed first. If this falls through then Rocky (rock Laurence) I’m going to need your skills at acquiring these.

Other cool news includes that I took the jeep camping last weekend and it was a blast. This was made more enjoyable after a local shop welded the broken exhaust pipe leak and tuned my carburetor for me. $42 well spent. lol.

So here a photo of the most recently acquired plunder, guess the gauge cluster facilitates the needed replacement/ complete building of AC. But that admittedly will be well on down the road.
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On a side note, I have been reading the archives a lot. Matter of fact, if my required reading way back in high school English was on FSJ history and repair I would probably have read a lot more of the assignments than I did.
Anyhow, I came across this little section on decoding your vin # and I thought it was fun. I have wondered many times how it came originally and if it was still set up like that.? So here’s the history on my Jeep.

1 – United States assembly
J – Jeep corporation
C – Multipurpose vehicle
C – 258 I6 factory installed motor
N – T-5 five speed manual – part time 4WD
17 – Cherokee 2 door station wagon 109” wheel base / WT
D- Gross vehicle weight – 5975-6200lbs
7 – Check for correct listing items
D – 1983
T – Assembled Toledo Ohio
020407 – The 20,407th jeep made that year.

I also learned that in 1983 there were only 6,186 total Cherokees, and that was the second lowest production year.
The 258 I6 motor for that year had 110hp (LOL) and 210ftpdtorq, with a 2BB carter carb. D-44 front axle, AMC 20 rear, and the NP-208 transfer case.

I know this isn’t earth shattering info but I have noticed that every couple days or so somebody starts a thread on “what is this? or how did it originally come equipped?” so the link to this section is listed below.

Ref:
Archives Facts and Figures

http://www.ifsja.org/tech/figures/vin81-88.html

I have a horse show to work all weekend and that generally entails a lot of free time at my work rig so I’m going to bring along some projects to keep me occupied. Hopefully I can get some progress made and I will have more to report Sunday evening.

Thanks again for the support and keep plugging away on your own projects as well because I’m learning a ton from them. It’s a slow process sometimes, but done right is better than rushed along….
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Re: 83 Cherokee education through restoration

Post by Florida83FSJCherokee »

Finally able to get some things finished. I apologize for the low quality photos in this post. I forgot the camera this morning and had to use the phone.They are a little fuzzy...

So I Got the second door panel and the horn cap finished.
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These visors were picked up from Rocky ( rocklarence) here in Lakeland, and they were pretty dirty and had some nasty tar like substance built up on them. He gave me a great price so it was worth trying to bring them back around.
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The passenger visor included a vanity light and it was also pretty beat up. So I decided to take it off and refurb it as well. Figured why not? Gives me a chance to check the bulbs and wiring…
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It came apart real easy and cleaned up real nice. I should note that I used the paint stripper again to degrease the visors, but I learned while working on the earlier interior parts that the plastic based pieces DO NOT do well so I just used mild soap and water with a brush. Everything was coming along nicely until I tried to snap the mirror back into the tabs. I barely started installing it when, snap…….

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So the project took a little detour, it was the kind of break that went back together smoothly and barely noticeable so I decided to fix it. Once again I dove into the horseshoeing supplies and got some fast setting acrylic. It’s called “super-fast Instant Shoes” and literally cures so hard that I can’t drive a nail into it. That’ll show umm!.... except, I got it all back together and the darn thing snapped in three places on the other side. I have invested myself at this point, and I was not going to lose the mornings work over 30 year old plastic so I repaired that side as well.

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It came out pretty darn good and except for a few small seems you can’t even tell it was cracked. Considering it’s tucked up out of site and won’t ever get used it works just fine for my needs.

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I still need to do the carpet replacement and strip the dash, but Im waitng untill a later date for those projects. In order to fix the window pillars Im going to have to take the windshield and dash out of the truck, and i really dont want to do that untill Im starting the finally paint prep. So.... It means the next project is to repair the floor boards, my friend Kevin and I should be tackling that soon. The fuel sender unit and seals still needs to be done as well so I think I will do that before we start welding on the body. : )

I also have a question for you guys who are further along than myself. Is there a way for me to use a volt meter and/or test light in order to test the guages in the replacement instrument cluster? (Nevermind, used a battery from my boat and tested all the electrical stuff this afternoon, thinking I'm just going to replace the oil pressure and temp guages with new ones. Not that expensive and saves me having to pull the cluster later. 1/29/13 )

Thanks for checking it out, and Thanks for all the advice so far.
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Re: 83 Cherokee education through restoration

Post by Florida83FSJCherokee »

Today I finally got around to the fuel sender unit replacement and the vent rubber seal replacement. This was necessary because I’m planning to redo the floor pans over the next week or so and welding with the fume leak was obviously a bad idea. The existing fuel sender proved to be the most rigged part removed thus far. I can’t tell if my favorite part is the “custom” copper tubes or the window screen filter? I can’t believe this thing even runs, the carb has 2x4 t strapping holding the throttle spring at the right tension and there are alligator clips supplying power to the choke; or at least there were…
Guess thats a testament to simple, carburated power trains.

It was a pretty simple procedure. I used a replacement unit from BJ’s OFFROAD, and it went in without a hitch. The instructions are listed on their website, and I found them to be thorough and complete.

The only advice I have is that if you’re going to do the vent rubber seals like I did, DROP THE TANK! It took the better part of an hour and an assortment of screw drivers to get that seal into the right position. It’s hard to get the correct seat without being able to reach it.

here's a before: the white goo is caulking that was used to try and seal the gaps and hold the tubes at the correct depth.
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after removal it was a race for the shop vac because there was junk all over and everywhere!
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cleaned.
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original and replacements
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tightest fit ever!
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I didnt have any slip on elctrical connectors so i used the drill press and delicatly put an 1/8th hole for a screw to hold the ground wire. probably should have just planned ahead but at least this saved a trip to the store.
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Installed and tested wiring/float levels. I did have to take it out and adjust it once but at full tank it reads just under the F, so im happy with that for my purposes.
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So again I say, Never ceases to amaze me.

I was removing the rear seat to work on the sender and i noticed a dark tan color peaking out from a seem in the fabric.
Looks like Im gonna have another one to try and bring back from the dead!
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Ive been looking for a rear seat for a while and all the time it was right behind me. LOL
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Florida83FSJCherokee
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Re: 83 Cherokee education through restoration

Post by Florida83FSJCherokee »

Well it’s been another crazy few weeks at work, but finally got some time to work on the Jeep.

The original plan for this break was to cut and weld the floor pans but as the law of planning goes …there is no planning.

A few weeks ago the Jeep got really sick and as it turns out there were a few reasons that culminated into one big problem.

First - the carb had no working choke so when it got cold the engine couldn’t quite get out of bed.

Second - the acceleration dropped to zero and it would fall on its face as soon as you stepped on the gas. It would idle fine and rev at the carb fine but zero load tolerance. So no acceleration = no fun cruising time…

Third- I have been crazy embarrassed to open the hood around people because of how disgusting it was under there. Wires like spaghetti, hoses cracking, oil and Blow By (learned that term today, lol) on everything, clogged! Valve cover breather, Defunct carb, and a non-functioning PCV system.

Couple all that together and I had to postpone the floors and CLEAN UP the engine and carb!

I owe Rocky (rock Laurence) a huge! Thank you for helping me rig the carb enough to limp it home a few weeks ago.

I also owe the board a huge! thank you for their help this morning in trouble shooting my Blow by issues. I hope you guys know how amazing it is to be able to get help with something you know nothing about, and by the end of the day have a total plan to diagnose and fix the issue.

I was urged to skip trying to rebuild the carb myself and found a great deal on getting mine refurbished.

I sent my carb to “Gronkperformance”… $150 plus return shipping and I had a completely rebuilt (not just cleaned) carb in my mail box. I got it with a manual choke conversion, and it came with all the hardware, mounting adapter plate, and extremely easy to follow online instructions, photos, and information. I would also like to mention that “Gronk” was available for technical support when questions arose. Over all this was a great experience!!!
His email and web address is listed below if you would like to contact him about an upgrade kit…
gronk@gronkperformance.com and his web site is http://www.gronkperformance.com

So I broke this into two sections… The choke conversion, and the cleanup.
Some of the before and afters are downright embarrassing. ; )

Choke Conversion:
This wasn’t crazy hard but was sort of intimidating when I opened it up.

Carb kit! so exciting
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Choke conversion bits and pieces
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original choke retaining bracket
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removed and ready for manual assembly
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new housing cap
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inserted "catch tang" technical term.. lol...
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set depth and check for clearance and full open/close motion
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set inside pin
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insert and check set outside pin...
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assemble the collar and cable tension pin
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align internal fork in the choke tang
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remount using the original bracket and check for clear range of motion
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the cable goes on after the carb is fully functioning on the truck and runs through the fire wall up under the dash. It has a simple two screw bracket and pull/push rod that alows you to set the choke. I didnt get that far this wekend but when I get it monted Ill add a pic of that as well.

so yes ... silly... but...not everyone is ready to pull there engine(myself included) so this was quite the accomplishment for me. LOL

On to BIGGER AND MORE NASTY THINGS

The PO's (i cant blame this on one) had all put and or removed there input on the wiring system so it looked like this.
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funny thing... the computer ignition mod was removed with the upgraded ignition and Carb switch out so most of those wire are either loose, or dead ends. I cut them out!!! LOL , such a liberating feeling! capped the ends and cleaned up the needed? ones with hose wrap and some good old fashion tape..
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If you look back a pic you will notice that many of said wires were sitting directly on the valve cover, behind the valve cover, and even a few were melted to the exhaust manifold, so i used an un-needed bracket from the choke conversion kit, my vice, and a hammer to make the niffty wire bundle hanger. Its the little things....
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went ahead a replaced the rear heater hose and after some very heavy usage of penetrating spray and a hammer i was able to tighten the rear exhaust manifold bolts. Actually got rid of 90% of the leak I was hearing. Dont know how long it will last but yet another small victory....

So the carb....
here it is all ready to go...what you dont see is me freaking out at the fact I have never done this before. LOL
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Carb Intake mainifold gasket and adapter plate installed ... so far so good
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Used "Gronks" tip and sprayed the paper carb gaskets with WD-40 , also dounble stacked! ...confidence is building.... ; )
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Mounted the carb and took some time to redo the heater hose, fuel lines, fuel filter, and vacuum advance hose. Zip ties are so awesome! Im quite proud of my "three deep" line up
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New PCV valve and hose, plus more awesome zip tie action with the vacuum advance line!
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Carb installed, tested, throttle linkage hooked up, return spring added, and the air cleaner jewlery in place.
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I should mention that it took alot of cranking and manual throttle work to get her going the first time. The idle had to be reset and I did a genaric mixture setting of "all the way in , two rotations out..." for test purposes. I also let her get warmed up and then used some starting fluid around the base of the carb to check for any acceleration when I sprayed it around it. Luckily I didnt have any because if you do....its all coming back off because you have an vacuum leak...

New rear valve cover breather cap, valve cover gasket, and a much nicer engine...
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This morning "(Serehill)" posted a very embarrasing engine pic from a previous post of mine. Hew also helped me understabnd what "Blow By" was with the pic....Which is more important, feelings or education.... but here it is and here it is after. Just so I feel less embarrased... ; )

Thanks to (Strode182 - Brad) , the "poor mans steam cleaner" was a huge success!!!! my wife thought i was nuts and it was almost as fun as cleaning the truck.
If you havent read his build thread ... the "poor mans steam cleaner" is when you hook your garden hose to the hot water heater on the highest setting and run it through you pressure washer! GENIOUS!
Mine happens to be in a closet inside my kitchen so it took two hoses. HA!

Before:
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After:
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MUCH BETTER.... took it for a drive and it ran like ive never felt it before! 10 times the power.... valve cover didnt leak ,yet, either.... plus the new grommets and PCV system seem to be working....fingers crossed.

Some time this week my buddy and I are going to run a compression test to determine the severity of my Blow By issue and he is also going to teach me how to set the timing on the engine. Both with my new vacuum gauge (im becoming so ligit, LOL) and a timing gun as well.
I got a new altenator and starter solinoid to install next weekend as well. Plus new belts... after that I will have knowcked out most of the stuff i needed toaccomplish in order to feel pretty comfortable on longer trips. Plus I can keep the stuff ive been taking off in a tub as backups. Crazy...fixing things before they break. what a concept...

Thanks again for all the help!
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Florida83FSJCherokee
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Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:53 pm
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Re: 83 Cherokee education through restoration

Post by Florida83FSJCherokee »

[QUOTE=Strode182]Wow, nice progress. It's great to hear it's running good and you've made a big improvement.

One thing you're gonna want to do is rotate that fuel filter. Right now, your return is at the bottom. Rotate it so the return nipple is at the 12 o'clock position. You might have to extend the rubber fuel line to the return line.

Keep it up :thumbsup:[/QUOTE]


ok ran new hose and flipped it.... Better?

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Is the reasoning for this flip so more fuel is availble to the Carb line?

It came off running return on bottom so that was how I re-installed it. So thanks for catching it. I thought it was to let fuel drain off after shutting down the engine. ; )
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Florida83FSJCherokee
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Re: 83 Cherokee education through restoration

Post by Florida83FSJCherokee »

Not a bad day today!


Did the compression test today...

Ran it three different ways:

Didnt pay attention to the instructions and got all excited(this was mostly due to the push button remote start switch, I LOVE!!! that thing). Then realized I hadnt warmed the engine up about half way through the first dry test. Finished the test anyway,... and then proceeded to reinstall plugs and hook it all back up. Warmed engine completly, took it all back apart, and did the 2nd dry and 1st wet test...

FYI: all plugs were out, and throttle held wide open... used a screw in guage not a push guage... engine was turned over 5-6 times per cylinder and compression was consistantly low on first revolution then spiked significantly upon second revolution and made small gains upon final revolutions to max out the guage.

First dry test (cold):
1 cyl. - 163lbs
2 cyl - 165lbs
3 cyl - 162lbs
4 cyl - 168lbs
5 cyl - 167lbs
6 cyl - 166lbs

Second dry test (at temp):

1 cyl. - 168lbs
2 cyl - 170lbs
3 cyl - 169lbs
4 cyl - 174lbs
5 cyl - 169lbs
6 cyl - 171lbs


Wet test (at temp) with each cylinder getting 11cc's of 10w40 oil:

1 cyl. - 205lbs
2 cyl - 200lbs
3 cyl - 200lbs
4 cyl - 205lbs
5 cyl - 200lbs
6 cyl - 205lbs

I feel like this was a good result. High compression and consistant...

best 100$ ive spent yet. Vacuumm Gauge, Compression test kit, and remote starter switch.
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Took the advice from other threads/post and labled everything.
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Had to remove the distributor in order to get to #4. Its also recommended that you disconnect the power to it before you begin testing to prevent sparks arching on accident.
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You need to set the throttle at Full open. This somehow disconnects the fuel pump so you dont pump your carb full of fuel the entire time your turning over the engine. I suppose if you have an electric fuel pump this would also be a needed step or you could just unplug it as well.
I used some extra throttle return spings from the packet I bought a while back to hold it open...
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This beauty is the remote starter switch. If I was a kid and had one of these I would probably be in jail for blowing things up. It just look like a detonator to me... you can have a second person turn over the engine while you watch the guage but this is a great tool to have when you are frequently working alone as I am. Thanks Board for recommending this...
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The wiring is simple but important. You dont want to connect the positive battery to the main post on the solenoid. Instead you need to use the smaller 'S' post on top...
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solenoid attachment location
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Last you want to hand screw the hose into the spark plug threads. Dont use a wrench because if you go to deep you can damage the engine.
Once the hose is in place you snap the guage onto the hose and push your "detonator"... I let the engine crank untill it read the highest compression reading and stayed there... Usually 5-6 cranks. keep your results written down according to cylinders and repeat.
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I was told in another thread about Compression testing that you want consistancy and levels higher than 150lbs. If you do the dry test and achieve those results the wet test isnt really necessary but I went ahead and performed one anyway. To do this you add clean oil to the clyinder through the spark plug hole. I used 11cc's for each (thats right at 2 tablespoons..another recomendation..) then you re-thread and do the test over again. I personally feel that the amount of oil in each cylinder needs to be the same to control the variables and get an accurate test.. but i just learned this today so I could be full of it. : )

I also kept my spark plugs organized and numbered so I could compare results with each plugs wear. Easy enough to do...... since they all came out for the test I bought new ones to go back in. These were bosch plugs and were NOT gapped. you can apparently buy them pre-gapped but I would recommend getting one of these .99cent gap gauges and checking them anyway. The gap for these plugs was .035 and I cross referenced this fact with the old plugs just to double check.
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As a driveway technician(just made that up. ;0 ) I am trying to keep pictures of these experiences and lessons learned. I realize that this is really basic stuff and probably boring to most of the people on this forum, but
Im 100% learning as I go. Hopefully if somebody else is in the same position this can speed the process a lil bit, and take some of the scary hesitation out of moving forward... I got an adrenaline rush today doing this project..ridiculous...

I hope to one day be able to read these threads on pulling cranks, engines rebuilds, and axles upgrades and understand them, but for now its quite simply starting at the basics. basic knowlege and basic tools. HA!
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another project for this weekend was to pull the carb and re-install. It developed a vacumm leak mid week and wouldnt idle below 1000rpm even with the set screw all the way out. In reading another thread i realized it was a vacumm leak and re-did the previous carb photos steps with RTV gasket compund in between the new gaskets. I havent restarted the engine yet but when I do Im gonna use that vacumm gauge I got to see if I fixed it....

Picked up a new rear window wipe set, heater vacuum controll, and some more interior parts this week as well so pleanty more to work on next week.


Thanks for the advice over the past couple weeks and i look forward to more post and chances to learn from everyone on the forum!

Thanks

JP
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Florida83FSJCherokee
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Re: 83 Cherokee education through restoration

Post by Florida83FSJCherokee »

It was a really big day for myself and my business today.

I leased a 2100sq ft warehouse/office/shop.

My business has grown out of its roots... The backyard 10x12 shed just wasnt big enough for inventory, tools, work truck, and the additional gear having helpers requires.

So I found this beauty. A big air conditioned office with storage and small kitchen, Locking! inventory supply room, and room for my blacksmith shop and tools. It has two lofts for storage in the main area, room for the welding supplies, and I can finally get my BIG air compressor. Even has a bathroom..!!!!with an exhaust fan!!!!!

What does this have to do with my jeep you ask...well, I finally have a shop that I can start a project and not have to worry about finishing it before it gets dark , or rains, or its too cold outside...etc...etc...

It means i can spend time with my family during the day and evening, and since I have lights (its the little things) I can work on the jeep at night or all night if I want to.

I used to drive 2 hours to practice my journeyman skills test at my buddies shop. Up at 4am on a sunday just so I could practice till 10am and be home for lunch and family time by noon. This place is 6min from my driveway.

The jeeps possibilities just became up to my minds wishes instead of the limitations of time and weather...

I'm sorry to ramble and sorry to put non jeep specific stuff in the thread. I promise I'll do some cool metal work later to make up for it.

JP


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; )
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Florida83FSJCherokee
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Re: 83 Cherokee education through restoration

Post by Florida83FSJCherokee »

Worked through the carb idle tuning process tonight. Quite daunting at initial thought but its actually not that complicated...

First- the Engine has to be at normal operating temp. 15-20 min run time.

Second - if you have any Vacuum or mechanical issues there is no point in moving forward.

Third - Hook your vacuum guage to a manifold vacuum port. An example of this is the small cupling on the lower intake where the brake booster comes off of. Manifold vacuum is strongest at idle and weakest at wide open throttle.
The opposite of manifold vacuum is ported vacuum. An example of this is the distributor advance port on the carb body. Ported vacuum is lowest at idle and highest a wide open throttle. Use your vacuum guage on a manifold vacuum connection and set your idle to the desired rpm with the idle set screw. (big one facing up behind the throttle linkage on a 2100MC). I set mine to 750rpm.Take note of your vacuum gauge reading and check for consistant steady readings. Mine locked in at 16in lbs at 750rpm. Im not sure if thats ideal but I was able to determine that my system wasnt leaking because it maintained the same vacuum reading at idle. This was important to me because it meant i could proceed to setting the mixture.

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Fourth - I started with a bench setting of 3 rotations out from full in. Both the screws need to be adjusted equally and no more than a 1/4 turn every 10 seconds or so. Most carbs will have lean as rotations inward and richer as rotations outward. The general idea is to set the mixture as lean as possible without affecting engine rpm/performance.

(my buddy was teaching me to do this and I got in trouble at this point. when my RPM dropped i adjusted the idle set screw again and you DONT readjust that screw, because if you move it you throw off the mixture and have to adjust it all over again)

Fifth - to truly set the mixture perfect you need a rpm guage that measures really small changes. Since I dont have one of those I used the guage in the truck and in all honesty, my hearing. I could hear the changes without having to run and look at the guage. So...I worked the screws inward untill the rpm started to drop a little. Then I turned them back out(richer) 1/4 turn untill the rpm went back to my idle set screws 750 setting. This should be pretty close to a balanced lean/rich mixture setting. Running richer wont affect the fuel delivery anytime other than idle. It only means more fuel at idle... I personally didnt realize that...it also apparently makes it harder to pass smog testing but we dont have that in florida so i dont usually consider stuff like that.

So apparently thats all there is to it. Its more about the prep work getting strong vacuum and mechanical soundness than the actuall screw turning.

tonight was fun, learned something new...

I also installed a "peace of mind" filter today. Its a metal screen fuel? filter I picked up at napa. Installed it inline on the PCV valve hose that runs to my intake manifold. I was concerned about the amount of blow by coming into the intake so this filter will catch the vaporized oil and collect it on the bottom of the filter before it enters the intake.

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Only issue is my peace of mind was short lived because I drove it from my house 6 min to the shop and the filter had alot in it already. Im going to research the forum and ask some of the more experienced guys what I need to be looking into. My compression test was pretty good so im kinda perplexed at how this much is being ejected through that hose. In the interum so I can continue the use of the jeep I am going to install a different filter similar to the ones air compressors use to remove water. This will allow me to drain the container at regualar intervals until i can figure out a plan for most likely haveing the engine rebuilt... : (


Well some good and some not so good but Im learning alot and its fun!

Thanks

JP
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Florida83FSJCherokee
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Re: 83 Cherokee education through restoration

Post by Florida83FSJCherokee »

Its raining so bad tonight that the inside of the jeep would usually be soaked, but the beast is happy and dry in its new enclosure. Now that it will be out from under the oak tree i guess I should wash it.


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JP

CherokeeCraig
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Re: 83 Cherokee education through restoration

Post by CherokeeCraig »

Great post and really nice Jeep!
79 Cherokee
81 CJ-7
82 CJ-8 Scrambler
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jaber
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Re: 83 Cherokee education through restoration

Post by jaber »

Beautiful Jeep. I am jealous of the dry work area.
Keep up the awesome work. Image
Jeff

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lindel
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Re: 83 Cherokee education through restoration

Post by lindel »

Very nice! Love the paint job, and the transformation of the interior back to stock.
Lindel
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