Wife's Waggy "Walter"...

[REDONE]

Hey dizzy guys.... Stupid question. Is it possible to have the dizzy maybe one tooth off? Would it run at all even if poorly??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In truth your distributor doesn't care where the gears mesh. 360* rotation of the camshaft = 360* rotation of the distributor shaft. There are 13 teeth on the cam gear and 13 teeth on the distributor gear. The only difference is the cap will need to be rotated 27.7* (360*/13teeth) advance or retard to line up the cap with the rotor for 0* on the crank TDC-Compression.

[tedlovesjeeps71]

Blew my mind... Haha.
I guess I'm just lost and frustrated. It ran ok (ish) before the first carb died. Not horrible after the new/used one got swapped on. Did the timing chain and removed most of the emissions stuff and now no matter where I set the timing it runs weak. You know how trying to accelerate when your cat or muffler is clogged feels? It's kinda like that. Once it gets up in the rpm it goes a little better but something is definitely not right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[REDONE]

Remember that whole thread you started about timing chains? How does your dizzy gear look? You only need 5 minutes, a sharpie and a 9/16" to check it real quick.

[Nikkormat]

So is this thread going to be called Ted's Waggy Walter now?

Is your choke opening? Sounds stupid but it's a common issue.

[az chip]

Is that stupid exhaust heater valve stuck closed?

[tedlovesjeeps71]

Hmm... I don't remember it looking bad when I had it out. I'm still shooting to install the injection this weekend which requires replacing the dizzy.. I'll look then. And pray!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tedlovesjeeps71]

So is this thread going to be called Ted's Waggy Walter now?

Is your choke opening? Sounds stupid but it's a common issue.

We shall see. The down side to having been through that financial fiasco is both our credit scores took a massive hit. Unless I can make this thing super reliable and running better she will be (literally) terrified to drive it. That translates to us finding something she will be confident in and yes... Ted will adopt Walter.
As far as I can tell the choke is open when it warms up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tedlovesjeeps71]

Is that stupid exhaust heater valve stuck closed?

You mean the thing in the passenger side exhaust? I deleted that when I built the new Y pipe so that isn't it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[az chip]

Is that stupid exhaust heater valve stuck closed?

You mean the thing in the passenger side exhaust? I deleted that when I built the new Y pipe so that isn't it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I just wanted to put it out there to check that off the list. You are going to make one of us go up there and rip that thing apart to find the sluggishness!

[tedlovesjeeps71]

Is that stupid exhaust heater valve stuck closed?

You mean the thing in the passenger side exhaust? I deleted that when I built the new Y pipe so that isn't it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I just wanted to put it out there to check that off the list. You are going to make one of us go up there and rip that thing apart to find the sluggishness!

Lol! Thanks for the idea, they are all appreciated. And anyone who feels froggy is more than welcome to jump on this thing.
I wish I could describe it better. It feels restricted, like it doesn't want to spool up? You give it gas and it just kinda moseys along until it gets to about 2500rpm (guessing as there is no tac). Then just before it shifts gears it feels more awake. Shift happens and it's back to sloth mode until it builds rpm again. Last night I tried dropping and holding it in first to climb the big hill to our apartment. It pulls as long as the rpm is up. Drop it to second and it becomes a real dog.

Doesn't the dizzy control some of that? The vac moves something which gives more energy at low rpm and modulates it as the rpms change?

[az chip]

Timing/vacuum at idle, curb idle and full in timing is what you need to know. I have not seen or do not remember your initial timing curve or if you posted it up. My guess, between some vacuum issues and maybe vac advance and mechanical advance, something is off. You have a TSM?

[Nikkormat]

Zip tie the choke plate open a see if it changes. They rely on a oil pressure switch for power, and if they don't receive it that choke won't open while hot until the pull off diaphragm sees enough vacuum.

[tedlovesjeeps71]

Hmmm...
So I found this on the great google. Sounds suspiciously like what I'm dealing with:

"Jeep CTO Switch Interchange Chart

Properly-functioning CTO (Coolant Temperature Override) Switches on Full-Size Jeep engines are essential to proper engine performance; over time they leak vacuum or cease to function properly, causing a rough idle, poor fuel-economy and driveability problems. When you go looking for replacements at your neighborhood auto-part store, however, they look at you like you have three heads. What are you to do?
Well, first, everybody else in the world (besides Jeep) calls these parts "Thermostatic Vacuum Switches" (TVS for short), as they direct vacuum to different ports based on coolant temperature. Even if you ask for a TVS for your Jeep, the parts catalog will often show none available, or will list one, when in fact you have three to replace. The Jeep dealer is always an option, but unless you have the rare Jeep dealer who discounts parts to over-the-counter customers, you'll be paying a fortune; over $100 for the three switches for a later Grand Wagoneer alone!

Well, despite what they say, your local parts-store probably does have the CTO switch you want, in stock, at a much-better price than the dealer.In the chart below, I list the various CTO switches you may encounter on your Jeep, with the corresponding Jeep part number and the aftermarket equivalents. I have checked and double-checked most of these parts via online cross-references in many parts-lookup search functions, and have personally verified the compatibility of the Borg-Warner EC970 and Wells #'s E901 and E960 units with their Jeep counterparts.

If you have any additions, corrections, questions, or further cross-reference information or sources, e-mail me!

I have listed the CTO switches by the number of ports, the most common factory color, and the temperature at which it swtiches vacuum sources (when such information was available). I have also listed an approximate price; this is not necessarily the best price, or the price you will pay, but rather a price that I have seen somebody charge or be charged.

Description Jeep Part # Miscellaneous Borg-Warner NAPA/Echlin Everco Filko Standard Wells
3-port red
220 deg vac J5358881,
3200853
$23.00 N/A EC970
$9.99 CRB21000
$14.99 H1934
$13.01 38-116
$23.42 N/A E900
$14.99
3-port yellow/white
155 deg J3235917,
3229450,
3216448
$42.26 Tomco
13303
$16 EC945
$18.35 CRB229035
$26.49 H2942
$19.52
or
H2944
$19.87 38-112 PVS10
$19.49 E901
5-port b/w
115deg 33001669,
3238932
$ 45.71 GP-Sorenson
7791837
$29.99
Niehoff
FE462 EC957
$25.23 CRB229048
$34.99 N/A N/A PVS61
$29.76 E960
2-port J3241675 N/A EC2916
$17.05 N/A N/A N/A PVS121
$16.89 E9041
2-port black/white 115deg 3228288,
3225912 N/A N/A CRB21084
$17.99 H1908 38-118
$22.37 PVS17
$26.18 E907
$19.99
2-port black 92-98deg 3226361, 3228894 N/A N/A CRB21187
$26.99 N/A 38-100
$26.29 N/A E903
2-port EGR 3218940 N/A N/A CRB229049
$42.49 N/A N/A PVS9
$11.43 E930
5-port orange 3241784 N/A EC958
$27.27 N/A N/A N/A N/A E956
4-port black
spark evap 8953003010 N/A EC960
$11.33 N/A N/A N/A N/A E958
$14.99
Necessary Legal Disclaimer: Of course, I make no guarantees about the accuracy or useability of the information of this chart; any risk, damage, loss, injury or other thing that you don't like that may happen as a result of using, employing, reading or thinking about the information on this page is entirely your fault. Hey, I'm just trying to help here, so don't sue me...

RETURN TO TECH PAGE"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ferrum]

I spent some time studying CTO's a while back. This is due to having idle issues after converting over to TBI. I tried manifold vacuum to distributor advance for a while and then ported vacuum for a while. I even tried switching source using spark CTO. This was due to hesitation/bog down when engine was not up to operating temp. Long story short, spark CTO was source of vacuum leak and I now use ported vacuum to distributor and CTO is taken out.
If you are suspecting carb issues, I would recommend that you do the TBI conversion and once it is running, ODB diagnosis will tell you if you have vacuum leak by driving IAC closed. If you don't have myte vacuum tester, you should get one. My vacuum hoses to QT normal/emer switch were cracked, Someone had used fuel line with clamps for hooking up vacuum line to TH400 vacuum modulator. Even with all these leaks it ran much better with TBI then carb.
Once I had vacuum leaks fixed and new program I got from Hamilton FI, it is running great. IMO, you should do TBI conversion sooner.

[tedlovesjeeps71]

IMO, you should do TBI conversion sooner.

Hopefully I'll start Friday and get it all on and running by Sunday. Lord willing!

[dodgerammit]

I don't share the hate for the 4.7. There's 131 4.7L GCs on Craigslist in the springs. There's only 95 with any of the 6 cylinder options (up to the current model). Granted, this comparison doesn't account for survivor bias, but if they're as bad as their internet reputation suggests, they'd all be in a junkyard by now.

Do a search for jeep grand cherokees under auto parts. See how many bad 4.7s you find. You can search Dodge rams as well and discover similar instances.

[REDONE]

That's the survivor bias I mentioned. At the same time you can look at any parking lot in real life and see how many 4.7s are running around just fine. The internet is full of information, but it's not a reliable source for truth.

[dodgerammit]

Not just internet sourcing. I also personally know 2 people that have had 4.7s blow up on them. Seems the 150K mile mark is the test. I would think the ads on CL speak for themselves as far as longevity issues. The motors that fail seem to be timing chain failures or slung rods. Yes, there are those that make it just fine. That is why I said reliability was hit and miss. Given that info, is why I suggested the 4.0 or earlier magnum motors. Personally, I wouldn't take that gamble if I was needing something dependable for several years. Just my 2 cents.

[tedlovesjeeps71]

So I was talking to one of my school's instructors who is an AMC fan about how Walter runs. Discussed the CTO etc. He gave me an idea about where I have the dizzy vac plugged in. What if it's drawing vac "backwards". I mean, if it's drawing vac for advance at idle but when I give it gas it's actually retarding the timing, wouldn't that account for the crappy acceleration and horrible fuel milage??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ProTouring442]

So I was talking to one of my school's instructors who is an AMC fan about how Walter runs. Discussed the CTO etc. He gave me an idea about where I have the dizzy vac plugged in. What if it's drawing vac "backwards". I mean, if it's drawing vac for advance at idle but when I give it gas it's actually retarding the timing, wouldn't that account for the crappy acceleration and horrible fuel milage??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The vacuum advance works only in those instances where the there is high vacuum. In essence, it does retard the ignition when you hit the gas.