Gabe's FSJ Diary (formally Grand Wagoneer build thread)

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REDONE
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Re: Increasingly simple, do almost anything Grand Wagoneer build.

Post by REDONE »

Well, I look forward to witnessing your Journey of Discovery. ;)
79 J-10 (Honcho Mucho) KE0LSU
304/Performance Fuel Injection TBI/MTA1/SP2P/Magnum rockers
T18/D20/D44s&4.10s/33" Mud Claws
Grizzly Locker Rear
4" front spring drop, 5" rear shackle flip
Chevy style HEI (ECM controlled)
Dolphin "Shark" gauges in a fancy homemade oak bezel
3/4 resto, rotting faster than I've been fixing it.
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tedlovesjeeps71
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Re: Increasingly simple, do almost anything Grand Wagoneer build.

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

I'd think this is very doable provided you have a normal air filter assembly. The only issues I ever encountered with the ones used on a 4.0 were the lines broke, the grommets hardened and cracked, or the vacuum lines to the intake became carbon plugged. All due to lack of maintenance and normal age. I hope you make a thread with pics for this as you go.


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Nikkormat
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Re: Increasingly simple, do almost anything Grand Wagoneer build.

Post by Nikkormat »

REDONE wrote:Well, I look forward to witnessing your Journey of Discovery. ;)
Hopefully you can critique it in person in Ouray.
Gabe, "reformed" Jeep hoarder.

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Nikkormat
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Re: Increasingly simple, do almost anything Grand Wagoneer build.

Post by Nikkormat »

tedlovesjeeps71 wrote:I'd think this is very doable provided you have a normal air filter assembly. The only issues I ever encountered with the ones used on a 4.0 were the lines broke, the grommets hardened and cracked, or the vacuum lines to the intake became carbon plugged. All due to lack of maintenance and normal age. I hope you make a thread with pics for this as you go.


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I'll let you all here in this thread know.
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tedlovesjeeps71
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Re: Increasingly simple, do almost anything Grand Wagoneer build.

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

Sweet!


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Nikkormat
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Re: Increasingly simple, do almost anything Grand Wagoneer build.

Post by Nikkormat »

Is there any advantage to pulling air from the valve covers vs the crank case?
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REDONE
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Re: Increasingly simple, do almost anything Grand Wagoneer build.

Post by REDONE »

Well, you're gonna want an arduous baffle after you hole-saw your way in there. The inside of your rocker covers will be coated with oil just about any time your foot is in the throttle.
79 J-10 (Honcho Mucho) KE0LSU
304/Performance Fuel Injection TBI/MTA1/SP2P/Magnum rockers
T18/D20/D44s&4.10s/33" Mud Claws
Grizzly Locker Rear
4" front spring drop, 5" rear shackle flip
Chevy style HEI (ECM controlled)
Dolphin "Shark" gauges in a fancy homemade oak bezel
3/4 resto, rotting faster than I've been fixing it.
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tedlovesjeeps71
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Re: Increasingly simple, do almost anything Grand Wagoneer build.

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

I wonder if you could put some from 4.0 valve covers into the V8 ones? Have to check clearances but they may be able to be spot welded in?


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Re: Increasingly simple, do almost anything Grand Wagoneer build.

Post by Nikkormat »

Ok I picked up the LS pcv valve and it is standard 3/4" on one end! That makes things potentially very easy. I can see no particular benefit to pulling oil from the valve cover vs the crank case. So assuming I can find a cap that is a breather and suitably baffled I can use a SBC pcv grommet to stick the LS valve in the stock intake.

Also heard back from the Machine shop. Crank was turned .010 and .010 so I went ahead and ordered bearings, rings, and incidentals. They only want $30 to hone it so I'll throw rings in for cheap insurance. I think they've talked me into letting them do the oil line mod too. Which reminds me, I forgot freeze plugs. Crap!
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az chip
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Increasingly simple, do almost anything Grand Wagoneer build.

Post by az chip »

One off pcv question answered on Summit FB site:

Jeff Smith: Sometimes the smallest details can make a big difference in a daily driver. Not everybody is concerned with peak horsepower. Often, it’s just a matter of getting the car to perform the way you want. Let’s start with a quick review of what the PCV system is and how it works.

Before 1962, cars merely dumped crankcase vapors overboard. If you look at old photos of the freeways in Los Angeles from the early ‘60s, you will see a black stripe of oil centered in each lane from the oil dumped on the road from these road draft tubes. The very first emissions device was the positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) valve. Its job was to direct a measured amount of vacuum from the intake manifold into the crankcase, pulling oil vapor into the intake manifold where the oil was burned.

At one time there were probably hundreds of different PCV valves – all specific to individual engines. But today, the valve has been consolidated to perhaps a few dozen applications. The idea is great but sometimes these valves just don’t work, or if they do, they do the barest minimum job of pulling engine vapor from the crankcase.

It’s also possible for a PCV valve to work too well. If the PCV valve pulls too much oil, this can be worse than not pulling enough. Often pulling too much can be caused by how the PCV valve is positioned in the valve cover. There should always be a small housing or vapor separator chamber between the PCV valve and the open portion of the valve cover. Without a baffle, a good PCV valve will pull liquid oil directly into the engine which is obviously not good.

With a baffle in place, the routing of the PCV valve circuit is important. It starts with a filtered, fresh air inlet. Most factory systems route a line from inside the air cleaner to an opening in the valve cover. On the opposite valve cover, a PCV valve is routed with a hose over to manifold vacuum source – often found on the back side of the carburetor. So the system pulls a small amount of vacuum from the intake manifold, past the PCV valve and pulls in fresh air from the air cleaner. This creates a full circuit that will purge combustion vapors out of the crankcase.

This assumes that the PCV valve is doing its job. It might take experimenting with several PCV valves to find one that actually works well. We ran across a small company called M/E Wagner Performance out of Pennsylvania that sells an adjustable billet aluminum PCV valve. This might seem an odd thing to do but engineer Matt Wagner discovered that many PCV valves really don’t do their job.

Matt and his dad Gene designed a PCV valve that is adjustable, allowing the end user to create the ideal amount of ventilation through the engine. The valve is not inexpensive at $129 but it will certainly do the job.



This is M/E Wagner’s billet aluminum and adjustable PCV valve. It allows you to custom tailor the amount of vapor pulled from the engine.

Often, pulling a large volume of vapor out of the engine will also mean that inevitably some liquid oil will accompany the vapor. This can mean employing a vapor separator or catch can in between the PCV valve and the connection at the engine. Moroso makes a really nice aluminum air/oil separator (PN 85481, $139.97 Summit Racing) that features a valve opening at the bottom to drain the collected oil. Inside this separate is just some steel mesh that helps separate the oil from the vapor.

We got to thinking about this, and I think if you were handy, you could make your own vapor separator. My buddy Tim Moore’s idea was to use an AC system’s large aluminum receiver/dryer canister. These are generally filled with a desiccant that removes moisture from the refrigerant. His idea was to find a suitable unit at the junkyard for $5 and cut it in half with a band saw, dump the desiccant, and then make a retainer that would be filled at the top with coarse steel wool. Then drill the unit for inlet and outlet fittings along with a drain plug at the bottom. To re-assemble the unit, you could have it TIG welded – or we thought you could glue it back together with a high-strength epoxy. I think JB Weld would do the trick since this can isn’t highly pressurized.

These are just some ideas for how to build a well-designed PCV valve that will operate the way it’s supposed to. The best part is that this system will keep the inside and outside of your engine clean at the same time.

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'81 Cherokee Chief 81 WT Chief/MSD 6/Holley Sniper/ Rusty 4" Spring lift/ Bulltear oil adapter/K&P Engineering Oil Filter/ NP 208/ Serehill Light Harness/KC LED Headlights/ Evil Twin Fab Roof Rack and sliders/ Ross mirror mounts.

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Re: Increasingly simple, do almost anything Grand Wagoneer build.

Post by Nikkormat »

OK after a month without updates...

Waggy has survived the wettest part of spring without wet floors. 8-)

PCV valve is going to remain in the stock location but the hole will be enlarged to 1.25 inches to accept a SBC pcv valve grommet.

And the last order of parts is inbound from summit. Final compression ratio calculations put me at 9.6:1 with .046 quench.
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tedlovesjeeps71
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Re: Increasingly simple, do almost anything Grand Wagoneer build.

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

Cool! What did you do to raise(?) The compression ratio??


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Re: Increasingly simple, do almost anything Grand Wagoneer build.

Post by Nikkormat »

tedlovesjeeps71 wrote:Cool! What did you do to raise(?) The compression ratio??


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Thinner head gasket with a smaller bore. So 0.027 compressed thickness with a 4.250 bore cometic vs the felpro, Edelbrock, ROL, head gasket at 0.050 and 4.75 inch bore.

The downside is that they cost right around $180 for a pair. But I'm willing to spend that much for a point of compression!
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tedlovesjeeps71
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Re: Increasingly simple, do almost anything Grand Wagoneer build.

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

Nikkormat wrote:
tedlovesjeeps71 wrote:Cool! What did you do to raise(?) The compression ratio??


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Thinner head gasket with a smaller bore. So 0.027 compressed thickness with a 4.250 bore cometic vs the felpro, Edelbrock, ROL, head gasket at 0.050 and 4.75 inch bore.

The downside is that they cost right around $180 for a pair. But I'm willing to spend that much for a point of compression!
Cool. I was just curious as I was pondering a way to bump compression a little on crossed fingers. Won't be boring anything so I guess I'm stuck with stock. I'm already wondering if the bigger cam will cause other issues like push rod length.


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Re: Increasingly simple, do almost anything Grand Wagoneer build.

Post by Nikkormat »

tedlovesjeeps71 wrote:
Nikkormat wrote:
tedlovesjeeps71 wrote:Cool! What did you do to raise(?) The compression ratio??


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Thinner head gasket with a smaller bore. So 0.027 compressed thickness with a 4.250 bore cometic vs the felpro, Edelbrock, ROL, head gasket at 0.050 and 4.75 inch bore.

The downside is that they cost right around $180 for a pair. But I'm willing to spend that much for a point of compression!
Cool. I was just curious as I was pondering a way to bump compression a little on crossed fingers. Won't be boring anything so I guess I'm stuck with stock. I'm already wondering if the bigger cam will cause other issues like push rod length.


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To be clear, the bore of the head gasket is just the size of the hole in the gasket. You could use the same gasket on your 360.

As for the pushrods I am unsure, I've decided to cross that bridge when I get everything assembled. My current pushrods are some sort of aftermarket hard push rods that we're in the 401 with the little crane cam. I'm hoping that with the thinner head gasket they will be good enough for the Summit cam. If not I'll have to measure and order some in.
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tedlovesjeeps71
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Re: Increasingly simple, do almost anything Grand Wagoneer build.

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

Nikkormat wrote:
tedlovesjeeps71 wrote:
Nikkormat wrote:
Thinner head gasket with a smaller bore. So 0.027 compressed thickness with a 4.250 bore cometic vs the felpro, Edelbrock, ROL, head gasket at 0.050 and 4.75 inch bore.

The downside is that they cost right around $180 for a pair. But I'm willing to spend that much for a point of compression!
Cool. I was just curious as I was pondering a way to bump compression a little on crossed fingers. Won't be boring anything so I guess I'm stuck with stock. I'm already wondering if the bigger cam will cause other issues like push rod length.


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To be clear, the bore of the head gasket is just the size of the hole in the gasket. You could use the same gasket on your 360.

As for the pushrods I am unsure, I've decided to cross that bridge when I get everything assembled. My current pushrods are some sort of aftermarket hard push rods that we're in the 401 with the little crane cam. I'm hoping that with the thinner head gasket they will be good enough for the Summit cam. If not I'll have to measure and order some in.
If you have to order new pushrods are you going with smaller inside diameter ones to keep more oil in the bottom of the motor??


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Re: Increasingly simple, do almost anything Grand Wagoneer build.

Post by Nikkormat »

On the pushrods, I do not know. I would like to but it will depend on availability.

Need to start putting my nose to the grind stone on this thing, been spending too much time partying and fixing other people's cars. Going to run out of time before Ouray. The goal is to have the block at the machine shop Thursday. Mocked up the intake last night and all looks good! I was worried about air cleaner to hood clearence, coil bracket, and oil filler to radiator hose clearence. But as the pics show it all fits like a glove. With gaskets the nut on the air cleaner will be the same height as stock, the Machine intake is taller than the regular stock intake and with the 1 inch spacer I was really worried about hood clearence.

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tedlovesjeeps71
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Re: Increasingly simple, do almost anything Grand Wagoneer build.

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

What's that big black thing to the passenger side of the oil fill... An ignition coil??


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Re: Increasingly simple, do almost anything Grand Wagoneer build.

Post by Nikkormat »

tedlovesjeeps71 wrote:What's that big black thing to the passenger side of the oil fill... An ignition coil??


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Yep, Ford TFI coil.
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tedlovesjeeps71
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Re: Increasingly simple, do almost anything Grand Wagoneer build.

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

Nikkormat wrote:
tedlovesjeeps71 wrote:What's that big black thing to the passenger side of the oil fill... An ignition coil??


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Yep, Ford TFI coil.
Gotcha. So what is a "machine intake" vs a regular 4bbl? It doesn't look all that extreme, what am I missing?
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