Brutus 2.0

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BRUTUS
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Postby BRUTUS » Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:57 am

Friday update...
Ordered spring bushings from BJ's Offroad using my raffle winnings from Ouray '16 for $8.00 each for the motor mounts.
http://www.bjsoffroad.com/Spring-Bushing-Front-of-Front-Spring-1974-1977_p_1355.html

Found out from Chris Thompson on Facebook that while the 5.3L was never offered with a manual trans, the 5.7L and the 6.0L were offered with a manual transmission... According to Chris the Ram 1550 flywheel is the most affordable on eBay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RAM-1550-Flywheel-Steel-168-Tooth-25-lb-Internal-Engine-Balance-Chevy-5-7L-Each-/182059229676?hash=item2a639361ec:g:r2gAAOSwr7ZW7LGC&vxp=mtr

I stopped at Autozone tonight and ran it through their computer and they came up with part number FW2711 from a LS1 Corvette.
http://www.autozone.com/drivetrain/flywheel-manual-transmission/brute-power-flywheel-manual-transmission/255699_0_0/

I checked my old clutch when I got home and it only has 6 bolt holes for clutch to pressure plate connection so I'm a little concerned with the Autozone flywheel with 18 tapped holes!

The prospect of finding a flywheel got me really excited so I put the 203 up to the 4500.
Image

So I cleaned up the shifting mess in the 203 nice and clean
Image

Then I dry fit the adapter shaft to the 203
Image

And finally, the last of the Mohicans patiently waiting on the bench with the other end of the adapter shaft.
Image

The adapter is still wrapped up because I didn't want to lose any parts. Soon enough though! Looking forward to a long weekend to do some more damage to this project!
Last edited by BRUTUS on Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
'74 J30 with some upgrades

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Grand_Wag_85
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Postby Grand_Wag_85 » Fri Sep 02, 2016 1:20 pm

Looking good. Can't wait to see Brutus 2.0!
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srobertsfsj
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Postby srobertsfsj » Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:05 pm

heck yeah Jason, looking good, cant wait to see it in person!!
Scott R.

'86 Grand Wagoneer "Super Chief" 5.3L drivetrain/ WT conversion / TT's Fabworks SOA and SF / 35x12.5x16 BFG M/T KM2 http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=294&p=3364

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BRUTUS
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Postby BRUTUS » Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:13 pm

Didn't get as much as I wanted done this long weekend... mother in law is in town and I took the "measure 250 times and cut once" approach to the 203 drill/tap operation but I made some progress and my excitement is growing by leaps and bounds now!

The weight of the transmission cantilevered off the engine wasn't too bad by itself but putting the 203 and 205 off that, the cantilever was going to be EPIC! To counter this problem, I installed a jacking bolt off the engine mount frame to provide additional support for the transmission.

Image

I was only able to center punch two of the six holes in the 203... the 10:00 and the 2:00 holes. After drilling and tapping these two, I thought I would outsmart this situation and used some old nail polish from my wife's cabinet to "mark" the entirety of the hole on the 203. This should have given me a good clean round indicator that I could drill out. WRONG! Apparently the bristles of the brush went between the flanges and made mushy goober marks on the 203.

Image

Rethinking it a bit, I decided to map all the hole locations on the output flange of the 4500 (knowing that I will need them down the road for the cross members anyways), draw them up in AutoCAD and then use my digital read outs (DRO's for short) to locate, drill and tap the remaining holes on the mill. I then used the mushy nail polish as a double check. Only the last hole was off and the nail polish paid off as I was able to correct the dimensions on the fly. All the bolt locations lined up relatively well and I didn't have to open any of the clearance holes up! Location tolerance on these holes had to be +- 0.025" for this to work so I think my DRO's did their job!

Image

Finally, as you can see above, I couldn't help but start putting the adapter together and installing it on the 203.

Image

I found out I am missing a 1/4" long by 1/8" diameter pin that holds a thrust washer in place on the output shaft. DOH! If the dealership can even sell them, I will buy one but otherwise, I will lathe one out of mild steel or get some dowel stock from McMaster Carr and cut it down. I also had to buy a few 3/8-16 set screws to plug the original mounting holes in the 203. I will get them installed with some RTV sealant the next time I pull everything apart. I'm hoping that I can get the 205 mounted this coming weekend but the wife wants to do a garage sale so once again, my time will get diverted one way or another.
Last edited by BRUTUS on Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
'74 J30 with some upgrades

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Re: Brutus 2.0

Postby Blake » Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:21 pm

I thought this was a 'family' site????

This thread is full of pornographic pics!!!

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j20brett
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Postby j20brett » Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:50 am

Sexy!
"Kaiser" - 1981 J20 115" WB - 5.3l/4l60E/np241c/hp60 spooled/14-bolt detroit/5.13's/42's

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BRUTUS
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Postby BRUTUS » Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:24 am

Grand_Wag_85 wrote:Looking good. Can't wait to see Brutus 2.0!


srobertsfsj wrote:heck yeah Jason, looking good, cant wait to see it in person!!


Blake wrote:I thought this was a 'family' site????

This thread is full of pornographic pics!!!


j20brett wrote:Sexy!


Thanks guys. I am really happy with the progress. As with any project though there sure are a lot of delays. I called my local GM dealer yesterday and asked about the thrust washer pin and they don't sell it... referred me to a local AAMCO shop... they don't sell it. So McMaster is next, http://www.mcmaster.com/#97395a606/=142vhvj! At least I get 10 of them so that one can work!

Placed the order for the spring bushings on Sept 2 and I suspect that they have not shipped yet as I don't have a tracking number or shipping confirmation. Apparently another item on my order is not in stock so the order is being held until it is acquired.

I am debating at this point having a shift lever machined or just purchasing one online. I might just get it quoted and see how it compares to the online price. This is the cheapest one I can find online: http://www.bearingkit.com/NV4500-Shifter-Lever-p/nv4500-28f.htm but I kinda wanna make it out of stainless so I don't have to worry about scratching the paint when I put some controls on the shifter.

Also, I have set up a folder on my photobucket for all the pictures as I am only posting the "highlights" here... http://s196.photobucket.com/user/brutus74/library/Powertrain%20Swap
'74 J30 with some upgrades

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BRUTUS
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Postby BRUTUS » Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:48 pm

Didn't have a very great weekend... Had to pull the 203 to assemble the adapter plate in a flat orientation and somehow the topmost bolt on the flange to the tranny output flange stripped the bolt threads off and left them in the 203. I knew I should have anti-seized those bolts before installing but I was just too excited. Then I had to locate the hole back on the mill to drill out the remainder of the bolt threads that were left behind and the re-tap the hole to make new threads. The first three or four threads into the 203 are completely gone too so I will have to use a longer bolt on the top only. :banghead:

I also was able to machine the retainer pin for the thrust washer that I lost above. I took this picture of it on the face of the output shaft... pin is 1/8" dia x 3/8" long. Luckily I had some 1/4" round stock hanging around and a 1/4" collet for my lathe.
Image

Works like a charm!
Image

Then I was able to get all the roller bearings installed in the adapter shaft 203 side:
Image

Just need to get some RTV gasket maker and assemble the 203 and the adapter plate in this orientation:
Image

Parts order from BJ's offroad showed up so now I can get my motor mounts designed and fabricated. Halfway home already!
Image

Finally, I took a long hard look at the throttle cable assembly and I think I know how I am going to make an alternate cable attachment for the hand throttle. Should work pretty slick!

While I was searching the interwebs I found this interesting article that provides an alternative solution to the $600 Advance Adapters clutch/flywheel solution that I will need to investigate further:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-0810-engine-transmission-swap-gen-3/

I even figured out a way to save 10% on the purchase of the engine without a coupon!

This weekend should bring the 205 Lowmax to the party! Fingers crossed! :evil: :fsj:
Last edited by BRUTUS on Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
'74 J30 with some upgrades

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BRUTUS
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Postby BRUTUS » Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:15 pm

After a couple small setbacks, nearly busting a hernia, a full tube of ultra black Permatex... Finally it is together!

Image

Image

Motor mount parts are cut and bushing tube is ready to be bored out. Refinance closing is tomorrow! Ordering some more parts today!
Last edited by BRUTUS on Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
'74 J30 with some upgrades

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j20owner
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Postby j20owner » Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:07 pm

That is one long drive-train. Looks hot, though.
Tatsadasayago wrote:And here i thought Capitalism was hitting the Shift Key...

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j20brett
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Postby j20brett » Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:52 am

Very nice! Do yourself a favor now and get a set of LS-6 manifolds to help with driveshaft/frame clearances. Got mine for $40 on craigslist. O! And think about an oil pan skid design now. I mounted mine to the engine mounts and back oil pan bolts
"Kaiser" - 1981 J20 115" WB - 5.3l/4l60E/np241c/hp60 spooled/14-bolt detroit/5.13's/42's

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Re: Brutus 2.0

Postby BRUTUS » Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:37 am

j20owner wrote:That is one long drive-train. Looks hot, though.


Thanks. Its not really how long it is that matters, but how you use it! LOL

j20brett wrote:Very nice! Do yourself a favor now and get a set of LS-6 manifolds to help with driveshaft/frame clearances. Got mine for $40 on craigslist. O! And think about an oil pan skid design now. I mounted mine to the engine mounts and back oil pan bolts


LS6 exhaust manifolds? I had read somewhere that "block hugger" exhaust manifolds were the thing to get. Same thing?

Oil pan skid, really? The way I figure, the oilpan is essentially above the front axle and the passenger side is somewhat protected by the front driveshaft. Is the worry that you will get rogue rocks between the front axle and the oilpan? How does that affect your ability to do an oil change with the filter on the back driver side of the oilpan? Or did you make a clearance in the pan to access the oil filter? Do you have any pictures of your guard?
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Postby j20brett » Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:03 am

yes, LS6 exhaust manifolds. They hug the block much better than the truck manifolds, and you can buy the mating flanges online.

Image

Yes, the oil pan on these motors is deeper than the ones on the 360's. And its cast aluminum. One rock and you're in for a bad day. I can still pull the filter without removing the skid. A slight mod to the skid and I can pull the drain plug too.

Yes, I am worried about a rouge rock. It was an easy skid to make, and gives me the peace of mind that I was looking for.

This is the only pic I have now, but can take a better one tonight.

Image
"Kaiser" - 1981 J20 115" WB - 5.3l/4l60E/np241c/hp60 spooled/14-bolt detroit/5.13's/42's

Fight Crime...Shoot Back.

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Re: Brutus 2.0

Postby j20brett » Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:14 am

Now that I think about it, you are passenger drop. I don't know where you are going to put your exhaust/driveshaft to get around the starter.
"Kaiser" - 1981 J20 115" WB - 5.3l/4l60E/np241c/hp60 spooled/14-bolt detroit/5.13's/42's

Fight Crime...Shoot Back.

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BRUTUS
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Postby BRUTUS » Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:08 am

j20brett wrote:Now that I think about it, you are passenger drop. I don't know where you are going to put your exhaust/driveshaft to get around the starter.


The starter and the clutch slave cylinder (below the starter) are tucked in pretty tight to the block already. I am not really worried about it. I am thinking I will run the passenger exhaust to cross over underneath the tailhousing of the NV4500 and then combine on the driver side to run back. From your pictures, the LS6/LS3 manifolds aren't all that much closer to the block... just that they present a flatter mounting flange whereas the stock manifolds "point" to the frame rail making them more difficult to use. This is probably the best picture I have of the relationship of exhaust to starter:

Image

Photo of the tailhousing gap (where the PTO cover is on the far side of the table):
Image

I was reading your build thread for the umpteen thousandth time last night and it says you used a LS3 exhaust manifolds. I don't know much about LS differences so it probably doesn't matter. I did some searching and I just want to make sure I get the right ones before I purchase.

These come up in a Google search for LS3 exhaust manifolds. Pretty sure I am not going to get a sweet deal like you got on them unless I go find a Caprice in the junkyard!
Image

I like the oil pan skid. Any reason that you didn't mount it to the oil pan flange alone... front and back? I am definitely agreeing with you since it is aluminum and closer to the ground. I have a little more lift than you do but that would make for a bad week if that broke!
Last edited by BRUTUS on Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Postby j20brett » Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:39 am

Dang, I guess I should have read my own thread! Yeah, LS3 are the ones. Maybe with your lift you wont have the driveshaft clearance issues that ive been dealing with. Driveshaft just barely kisses the crossover tube on full bump. And yes, they point straight down instead of at the frame rails. I would have had a horrible time trying to make the turn back to cross under the bellhousing, and further limited driveshaft clearance. Anyways, im sure you have a good plan and am looking for to watching you get it done!

I considered mounting the oil pan skid to the flange, but id would be tough to make a piece to bolt up to the flange itself, which is narrow, so not a lot of surface area there to distribute the load. Plus, it was easier to make mounts to attach to the engine mounts.
"Kaiser" - 1981 J20 115" WB - 5.3l/4l60E/np241c/hp60 spooled/14-bolt detroit/5.13's/42's

Fight Crime...Shoot Back.

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Re: Brutus 2.0

Postby BRUTUS » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:14 pm

j20brett wrote:Dang, I guess I should have read my own thread! Yeah, LS3 are the ones. Maybe with your lift you wont have the driveshaft clearance issues that ive been dealing with. Driveshaft just barely kisses the crossover tube on full bump. And yes, they point straight down instead of at the frame rails. I would have had a horrible time trying to make the turn back to cross under the bellhousing, and further limited driveshaft clearance. Anyways, im sure you have a good plan and am looking for to watching you get it done!

I considered mounting the oil pan skid to the flange, but id would be tough to make a piece to bolt up to the flange itself, which is narrow, so not a lot of surface area there to distribute the load. Plus, it was easier to make mounts to attach to the engine mounts.


The more I think of it, I may just run true duals but keep them tight to the underside of the cab with a radiation shield on each one. This would allow me full access to everything in the powertrain from the underside without having to remove the exhaust. It would also keep the 4500 output notch open if I need to do a crossmember there. I have the 205 clocked not flat but maybe down 5*. I don't have a picture of it but the bottom of the 205 is basically level with the bottom of the 203. I could easily clock the 205 down a little more if needed. This potentially would also help me fit it inside the frame rail. Only time will tell I guess.

As a side thought, I have been thinking about shifters and stumbled on this site: http://www.americanshifter.com but more specifically the "not safe for work" shift knobs http://www.americanshifter.com/catalog/shift-knobs/ladies-shift-knobs
'74 J30 with some upgrades

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BRUTUS
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Postby BRUTUS » Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:55 pm

Haven't gotten a lot done lately... got the motor mounts about 80% done:

Image

I got the shifter I ordered from Amazon:

Image

Anyone think of why I can't get 5th gear or reverse sitting still? I have even rotated the gears from the backside to see if it was a mesh problem. I might have to crack the tranny open and see what's up.

I also ordered the Ram mounts for my car (parts of which will also go in the Jeep and the tow rig)
Last edited by BRUTUS on Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
'74 J30 with some upgrades

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Re: Brutus 2.0

Postby Blake » Thu Oct 06, 2016 1:19 pm

No 5th and no reverse huh?

my bet is that you have something misaligned. I bet the transfer cases are putting lateral pressure on the output shaft. Can't tell from the pic, but you don't have the engine connected to the tranny bellhousing right? So that wouldn't be it. Check all that stuff and maybe pull the shifter out and take a look.

Is there oil in that thing? OH BTW - when it comes to the oil, I cannot say this strongly enough. ONLY and I mean very literally ONLY use the GM oil part number 12346190 If you use Amsoil or any of the other brands you won't be able to shift it as easily and it will rattle more than it should. Believe me, I've been there and done that.

https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-12346190 ... B000QIR1V2

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BRUTUS
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Postby BRUTUS » Thu Oct 06, 2016 1:37 pm

Blake wrote:No 5th and no reverse huh?

my bet is that you have something misaligned. I bet the transfer cases are putting lateral pressure on the output shaft. Can't tell from the pic, but you don't have the engine connected to the tranny bellhousing right? So that wouldn't be it. Check all that stuff and maybe pull the shifter out and take a look.

Is there oil in that thing? OH BTW - when it comes to the oil, I cannot say this strongly enough. ONLY and I mean very literally ONLY use the GM oil part number 12346190 If you use Amsoil or any of the other brands you won't be able to shift it as easily and it will rattle more than it should. Believe me, I've been there and done that.

https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-12346190 ... B000QIR1V2


I know about the fluid and no there is none in there. The engine is connected to the bell housing but there is ZERO connection where the clutch goes. I guess I could pull the 205 off or lift the 205 with the cherry picker and see if that would relieve the output shaft stress if that is it. Otherwise, I will pull the top off and check it out. It might be worth me taking off the PTO covers because that is where the reverse sits. The guy I bought it from said it came out of a tow truck that was totaled and he stored it for a few years in a school bus. Worst case is that I will take it to a local tranny shop and have them give it a lookover and do the "fix" to the overdrive gear nut.
'74 J30 with some upgrades


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