Brutus 2.0

Area to show off your Custom Build threads.

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BRUTUS
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Post by BRUTUS »

Not as much as I would like has been happening lately on account of Baby #2's pending arrival in December.

I have been doing little things though such as gathering hardware for a multitude of upcoming projects. I ordered my clutch kit through Advance Adapters because the flywheel ALONE from the link I posted to the hotrod stuff was almost as much as the entire kit from AA. Here are some pics:

Luk clutch (under the paper), pressure plate, throw out bearing, pilot bushing, spline grease & alignment tool:
Image

Clutch side of flywheel:
Image

Engine side of flywheel:
Image

Bag of hardware with pilot bushing adapter:
Image
Supposedly the throw out bearing in this bag MUST be used instead of the stock throw out bearing and there is NOT much difference at all!

I had an idea about 5th gear and reverse on the 4500... it is entirely possible that the infamous shaft nut on overdrive has come off or bound up in the tailhousing binding up the 5th gear shift fork and since it is on the same rail as reverse, that is what is making reverse non-existant as well. Hoping to open up the case this weekend and see what I can find. Hopefully it is this simple.

I have also started to lay out the air cylinders for the t-case shifting. I have fabricated the collars for the shift rails and acquired the hardware to attach them. I even had to go back and read the thread that got me thinking about doing this in the first place: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general- ... np205.html. I still have some parts to order to make this a reality but they should be easy enough to obtain.

The motor mounts are still in process... I did get all the hardware needed to complete them so all that is left is to make the final flange for the frame horns.
Last edited by BRUTUS on Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
'74 J30 with some upgrades
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j20brett
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Post by j20brett »

Alright, im curious, why go to the trouble of air shifters? Seems like lots of stuff to break potentially.
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AwesomeJ10
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Post by AwesomeJ10 »

Continues to look good man.

I have the same question about the shifters. Guess I just prefer to manually shift my atlas. I know mine can get bound up pretty good when both the front/rear axles are engaged and it can require quite a bit of force to knock one axle out of gear. I pretty much have to work the gas/clutch/shifter at the same time. Will your setup allow for independent front/rear axle engagement? While I do 90% + 'wheeling with the front axle disengaged and the rear in HI, I do like the ability to go to low rear/low front/etc.

Topic author
BRUTUS
Posts: 219
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Location: Fort Collins CO

Re: Brutus 2.0

Post by BRUTUS »

j20brett wrote:Alright, im curious, why go to the trouble of air shifters? Seems like lots of stuff to break potentially.
Blake wrote:Continues to look good man.

I have the same question about the shifters. Guess I just prefer to manually shift my atlas. I know mine can get bound up pretty good when both the front/rear axles are engaged and it can require quite a bit of force to knock one axle out of gear. I pretty much have to work the gas/clutch/shifter at the same time. Will your setup allow for independent front/rear axle engagement? While I do 90% + 'wheeling with the front axle disengaged and the rear in HI, I do like the ability to go to low rear/low front/etc.
I am not sure what can break. In the pirate thread, the durability is discussed through the years (2007 - 2016) and not one comment about breakage exists. I even asked in the thread about the weight of the cylinder bodies being simply supported that they would potentially wear out the shaft seals (not even a breakage... just wear) and the only response I got was that you will rebuild your rig 10 times before that happens. Really the weight of the cylinders is not very much... a few ounces really. Only time will tell.

The main reason I like it is that once you engage the switch, the air pressure is applying an even force without any further input from you. In that case all you have to work is the gas and clutch to open any binding issues. Once there is alignment the cylinder engages and you are in (or out as it were).

Another reason I like it is that it cleans up the interior a lot. I am obviously going to have a trans shifter. I am also going to have two e-brake handles for cutting rear brakes. The thought of having three additional shifters on the floor doesn't appeal to me. My plan is to make a console with the locker switches and the transfer case switches that the e-brakes will stick out the front and make the interior "cleaner". The beauty of this is that the console will exist directly above the transfer cases so the air lines will be very short and all out of harms way. The shift pills will ultimately keep the transfer case from imploding and the shift rail detent balls are not really needed at that point. I also really like that it is just vastly different than what most people have or have ever seen. Another consideration is if the air system fails in some way, the detent balls will be the only thing holding the rail in gear which isn't the end of the world.

Finally my ultimate goal down the road is that I would like to make Brutus "remote controlled." At that point I can replace the switches with electrical solenoid valves that are wired into RF receivers... but this is a LONG way down the road. This makes air shifted t-cases actually a critical component to my plan since there is no way that I can electrically actuate the sequence the pressing of the clutch, the shifting of gears and the release of the clutch. I can however electrically "shift" from 1:1 to 2:1 to 3:1 to 6:1! Don't tell anyone about this because it is supposed to be a secret (until now)! Before you get all excited about any "runaway" scenarios... a RF ignition kill switch will be at the ready at all times!

My setup will allow for independent front/rear engagement. The one thing that I will do a little different is that I will not have the ability to have the 203 in neutral. I will use a single cylinder with a 1" stroke and the 203 will either be in high or low at all times. Another beauty of the air cylinder actuation is that I can put as much or as little force as I want on the shift rail by regulating the air pressure to the cylinder. Most guys on the Pirate thread are using the air locker regulated pressure of 85psi to run their shifting cylinders. Worst case if the 44lb of force that is generated is not enough, I could go to un-regulated 150psi pressure and get nearly 78lb of force on the shift rail. Even with mechanical advantage, I don't think your are getting that kind of force with your mechanical shifters and it is not as constant/persistent.
'74 J30 with some upgrades

AwesomeJ10
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Post by AwesomeJ10 »

ya, I hear ya. Sounds cool.

I haven't looked at the thread on Pirate, but I can imagine that durability isn't an issue.

But here IS a real world issue that I was watching just the other day: I have vids from this past year at Moab where Brutus couldn't climb obstacles because the front wasn't locked. I believe the front wouldn't lock because the ARB wasn't getting air. In my experience, air lines and 'wheeling are always problematic. Seems like pretty much anytime I get invovled with a group of 'wheelers who have ARB, at least one of them has an air line issue.

Do you really want to rely upon air for shifting the cases in addition to actuating lockers? I can easily see a situation where you are in 'one wheel drive' because of air issues. Don't worry though, the old honcho will tow you thru the trail! :fsj: Just last week it pulled a broken toyota truggy all the way down spring creek, some of which the toy was rolled over sideways.

All I know for sure is my old school detroit lockers and 4 shift levers seem to work every time.

Good luck and keep the Jeep porn coming!!!

Topic author
BRUTUS
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Post by BRUTUS »

Blake wrote:ya, I hear ya. Sounds cool.

I haven't looked at the thread on Pirate, but I can imagine that durability isn't an issue.

But here IS a real world issue that I was watching just the other day: I have vids from this past year at Moab where Brutus couldn't climb obstacles because the front wasn't locked. I believe the front wouldn't lock because the ARB wasn't getting air. In my experience, air lines and 'wheeling are always problematic. Seems like pretty much anytime I get invovled with a group of 'wheelers who have ARB, at least one of them has an air line issue.

Do you really want to rely upon air for shifting the cases in addition to actuating lockers? I can easily see a situation where you are in 'one wheel drive' because of air issues. Don't worry though, the old honcho will tow you thru the trail! :fsj: Just last week it pulled a broken toyota truggy all the way down spring creek, some of which the toy was rolled over sideways.

All I know for sure is my old school detroit lockers and 4 shift levers seem to work every time.

Good luck and keep the Jeep porn coming!!!
Brutus' ARB's has never had a compressor or stored air and likewise, the ARB's have never been plumbed so you are correct that the ARB's were not getting air in Moab '16. LOL

You pulled a truggy down the backside of spring creek? Do you have any video? How wide did you have to swing on the switchbacks to get the truggy around the bends?
'74 J30 with some upgrades

AwesomeJ10
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Post by AwesomeJ10 »

I drove over the toyota truggy so I could get him around the bends. It was bad. No good pics as the initial roll happened just before dark. I think I put one pic on FB showing one of the flops. Like I said - it was BAD. REAL BAD. Luckily no injuries to people.

that ordeal brought to light a few things that I've been missing while 'wheeling.

I will NEVER 'wheel the honcho again without having BOTH a front and rear winch. I bought Gabes 8274 which is going on the front and my existing 12k chinese winch is going on the back. I am toying around with the idea of making some kind of winch setup for the top of the cab too. Something that allows 360 degree of wiching ability from UP HIGH. I doubt that will happen tho, but it's sometimes needed.

I will NEVER 'wheel again without having a tent/sleeping bag/food/etc/. Stuff to allow an overnight stay on the trail.

In addition to that, I've bought another complete set of tools and I'm making provisions to KEEP them in the honcho at all times. No more throwing sh!t into a bag and going 'wheeling. The tools will always be there. Something as simple as the lack of having a 3/8" swivel socket lead to an array of issues on this run. It's easy to forget the little things when you are just throwing the tools together. Having them in the truck at ALL TIMES is what I want.

Topic author
BRUTUS
Posts: 219
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:36 pm
Location: Fort Collins CO

Re: Brutus 2.0

Post by BRUTUS »

Blake wrote:I drove over the toyota truggy so I could get him around the bends. It was bad. No good pics as the initial roll happened just before dark. I think I put one pic on FB showing one of the flops. Like I said - it was BAD. REAL BAD. Luckily no injuries to people.

that ordeal brought to light a few things that I've been missing while 'wheeling.

I will NEVER 'wheel the honcho again without having BOTH a front and rear winch. I bought Gabes 8274 which is going on the front and my existing 12k chinese winch is going on the back. I am toying around with the idea of making some kind of winch setup for the top of the cab too. Something that allows 360 degree of wiching ability from UP HIGH. I doubt that will happen tho, but it's sometimes needed.
Would love to hear about this over some beers. It is hard to get an idea of what went down through words.

The problem that I see with a winch up that high is that it will have so much leverage on your truck to tip it over in any direction rather than pull someone else which is what I am assuming you are talking about.
Blake wrote:I will NEVER 'wheel again without having a tent/sleeping bag/food/etc/. Stuff to allow an overnight stay on the trail.
Sounds to me like you just need to start your wheeling day earlier. I ran spring creek in about 6 hours total (including lunch) with a group of about 90 rigs (or so it seemed). I was late arriving and still got off the trail before sundown. If I know I will be out late on a trail I would pack overnight stuff but I just don't get that late of a start. This also plays into wheeling alone, nearly alone, or in a group as well. Even a small group (3-7 rigs) has many advantages over 1-2 rigs.
Blake wrote:In addition to that, I've bought another complete set of tools and I'm making provisions to KEEP them in the honcho at all times. No more throwing sh!t into a bag and going 'wheeling. The tools will always be there. Something as simple as the lack of having a 3/8" swivel socket lead to an array of issues on this run. It's easy to forget the little things when you are just throwing the tools together. Having them in the truck at ALL TIMES is what I want.
That is how I have mine setup... tools and spare parts/fluids are onboard all the time. Only way to go if you are wheeling an older rig and you anticipate problems on the trail. I will never forget the look on the Nebraska guys faces when I told them that I had a spare upper radiator hose and coolant to get them up and running on Yankee boy in Ouray last year. Priceless!
'74 J30 with some upgrades

Nikkormat
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Post by Nikkormat »

Not clanky was it?
Gabe, "reformed" Jeep hoarder.

AwesomeJ10
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Post by AwesomeJ10 »

Ya, it was clanky. Hydrolocked the cylinders (we think). Can't remove Toyota spark plugs without a swivel. Just cant.

Back to the build thread tho. All I can say is that I'm very much looking forward to wheeling with Brutus 2.0 and hope I'm invited on the shakedown run. You may not be able to find a more capable and eager recovery vehicle if things go bad (which are sometimes very good) :)

I'm also very interested in seeing the cab....

Nikkormat
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Post by Nikkormat »

Blake wrote:Ya, it was clanky. Hydrolocked the cylinders (we think). Can't remove Toyota spark plugs without a swivel. Just cant.

Back to the build thread tho. All I can say is that I'm very much looking forward to wheeling with Brutus 2.0 and hope I'm invited on the shakedown run. You may not be able to find a more capable and eager recovery vehicle if things go bad (which are sometimes very good) :)

I'm also very interested in seeing the cab....
I can and have removed mine with a crescent wrench. Score one for the AMC boys.

Dang, that sucks. Hope Buster and Clanky are OK.

I too am looking forward to Brutus 2.0 it should be one sweet J Truck.
Gabe, "reformed" Jeep hoarder.

Topic author
BRUTUS
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Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:36 pm
Location: Fort Collins CO

Re: Brutus 2.0

Post by BRUTUS »

Wow... fell off the first page! SMH

I got my pneumatics on order and should have them in the next couple of days. Here is a pneumatic schematic for those that want to play along at home: (Clippard CR-UDR-12-1/2 is replaced with Automation direct A12005DP and Clippard RC-1281 was replaced with Automation direct ARC-14-28)

Image

I am running mine a little differently than most on Pirate. I am plumbing my 203 so that there is no neutral... only high or low and therefore am using a 1" stroke cylinder instead of two 0.50" stroke cylinders. I also learned that since I am using the MJTV-3 switches for my ARB's I can run them at any pressure I desire! ARB says the locker can withstand 600PSI and I am thinking of running it at 150PSI. Ref last paragraph of this link http://blog.arbusa.com/?p=220

I also splurged on the lever valves for the 203 and 205 rails. These valves have a nice handle that is about 2" tall and have detents to keep it in place. The project manager in me wants to reduce the chance for failure of this system so I am going to use these tall handles with a custom coverplate to keep everything in rear-high gear for general driving around so they can't be bumped at a high speed into a bad gear ratio!

Here are some screenshots of the scale version of what I will finish with. For reference the main console plate is 10" wide by 15" tall in the picture. Mine will probably be smaller in the end but I needed a "canvas" to work on for the time being. The red hoses are raw supply hoses, blue is secondary and the others are tertiary. I realize that this is not completely finished plumbing wise but I just needed to get an idea of how many mufflers, elbows and straights I need to purchase and at what sizes.
Image

Image

I also found a good reduction in cost for the cylinders... My Clippard distributor wanted $45/each for the 1/2" cylinders and I was able to find them on automation direct for $18.50/each with free shipping. Only difference being that I have to press the pin out of the cylinder foot but that is no match for my 20T h-frame press! https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Sh ... g/A12005DP

Finally, I found the air line fittings that I will use throughout my system. My assemblers use them at work on our big rigs and the fittings are DOT compliant. They are a variation of the push-to-connect fittings that most air systems use. The primary difference is that they have a ferrule inside the push-to-connect that ensures the tubing stays engaged with the push-to-connect. I have a couple of them at home that I can take a picture of but haven't yet.
Last edited by BRUTUS on Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
'74 J30 with some upgrades

will e
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Post by will e »

Catching up a bit on this thread.

Air actuated transfer case shifting. Cool! I appreciate your attempt at cleanliness. Myself I liked the 'manly man' look of too many shifters. ;) But no worries, I still think you are a manly man! But I really do like your approach.

Blake, I totally agree with the dedicated tool set for the rig. I have a set I just leave in there, no worries that I will forget something.
81 Waggy 'WILL E' Retired
82 Cherokee WT - SOA/SF/high steer/Alcan springs/agr box/Borgeson steering shaft/AMC 401/performer/holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS (2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave, Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37X12.5/Corbeau XRS Baja & 5 point retractable harness/Hella Aux lights/tuffy console/killer32 sliders/Evil Twin bumpers, rack and roll cage/WARN 8000/TT Fabworks steering brace/dual batts/custom TC skid plate/ARB fridge

Topic author
BRUTUS
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Location: Fort Collins CO

Re: Brutus 2.0

Post by BRUTUS »

will e wrote:Air actuated transfer case shifting. Cool! I appreciate your attempt at cleanliness. Myself I liked the 'manly man' look of too many shifters. ;) But no worries, I still think you are a manly man! But I really do like your approach.
I still have shifters but they just aren't mechanical!
'74 J30 with some upgrades

will e
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Post by will e »

Will you system keep you from putting the front in high gear and rear in low gear (or the other way) or does the 203 provide this lockout?
81 Waggy 'WILL E' Retired
82 Cherokee WT - SOA/SF/high steer/Alcan springs/agr box/Borgeson steering shaft/AMC 401/performer/holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS (2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave, Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37X12.5/Corbeau XRS Baja & 5 point retractable harness/Hella Aux lights/tuffy console/killer32 sliders/Evil Twin bumpers, rack and roll cage/WARN 8000/TT Fabworks steering brace/dual batts/custom TC skid plate/ARB fridge

Topic author
BRUTUS
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Post by BRUTUS »

will e wrote:Will you system keep you from putting the front in high gear and rear in low gear (or the other way) or does the 203 provide this lockout?
The 203 has no lockout. It will either be high or low range. The 205 still has the shift pills and they prevent it from mismatching gears. I will sequence the shifters so that you would really have to try to get them mismatched.
'74 J30 with some upgrades

Topic author
BRUTUS
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Post by BRUTUS »

Wow what a week... Our newest Jeeper Olivia Rose joined the world last Tuesday! Mama and baby are doing great... hopefully I can focus a little more on the task at hand now!
Image

Parts have been showing up but I have been too busy to post! All the missing pneumatic components have arrived.
Image

Here are the fittings and hose I will use on all my connections. Fittings have a ferrule inside and a push to connect. The hose is 1/4" OD 3/16" ID and DOT rated. I can actually bend this hose to a 1" ID if I want to without kinking... pretty impressive stuff.
Image

I also splurged and got some LEDs from Infinite Offroad on their Black Friday sale. Royal blue rock lights and some light bars!

I got the Kilby York compressor bracket kit and a 6-groove clutch/pulley ordered today as well. Looking forward to seeing where that goes!
Last edited by BRUTUS on Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
'74 J30 with some upgrades

will e
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Post by will e »

Congradulations on Olivia. What a beautiful little girl.
81 Waggy 'WILL E' Retired
82 Cherokee WT - SOA/SF/high steer/Alcan springs/agr box/Borgeson steering shaft/AMC 401/performer/holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS (2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave, Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37X12.5/Corbeau XRS Baja & 5 point retractable harness/Hella Aux lights/tuffy console/killer32 sliders/Evil Twin bumpers, rack and roll cage/WARN 8000/TT Fabworks steering brace/dual batts/custom TC skid plate/ARB fridge
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Gumby
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Post by Gumby »

Well you have a beautiful reason to be slacking, congratulations. You may need more time because you can't be all greasy when Olivia calls :shock:
1984 GW 360/727/208.... 4"/ 31"
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Topic author
BRUTUS
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Re: Brutus 2.0

Post by BRUTUS »

will e wrote:Congradulations on Olivia. What a beautiful little girl.
Gumby wrote:Well you have a beautiful reason to be slacking, congratulations. You may need more time because you can't be all greasy when Olivia calls :shock:
Thanks guys. She is already growing fast. She will get used to the grease one way or another!
'74 J30 with some upgrades
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