Tight/Crisp Steering questions

[Loren Jones]

Hello again,

Seeking planning advice as I go about getting my Grand Wagoneer put back together. To recap it will be on freshly rebuilt D44's with 4" lift (Alcans Spring lift), wide track fenders, 33" or more likely 35" tires. It will be used some off road no doubt but will also be a daily driver and family camping vehicle.

I want the steering to be tighter/crisper than a standard old worn out wagoneer. I'm not looking for sports car here OBVIOUSLY, but would like something approaching the feel of a more modern pickup.

I'm going to be using a manual transmission and was thinking of using a different steering column than stock since I don't need the shifter and indicator etc. Should I be looking at an aftermarket unit like a Borgeson or something, or will one out of a manual trans Cherokee or J Series work fine? Any steering feel advantage to the expensive aftermarket ones? Do setups that replace the rag joint with a U-joint make a difference in steering feel?

Obviously I'll make sure all the bushings and joints in the steering setup are new. Is there anything that should be upgraded in the linkage from the steering box to the knuckles?

Is there a big advantage to going with a different steering box than a rebuilt stock Saginaw box? I've heard that the 96 to 98 Grand Cherokee box has a quicker ratio at 12.7:1 and I've also heard of using S10 steering boxes or Durango pieces or even '70's J20 boxes. There is a super pricey variable ratio large bore one from PSC but $850 is a lot when a regular rebuilt OEM piece is like $135.

I know nothing about all of this so any advice or hands on experience is much appreciated.

[carnuck]

Tad's TTFab steering box brace and a drop arm to make the bar level along with OTT High Steering arms.

[cmaje72]

The FSJ column should be fine. You can even take the column shifter arm off if you don't feel like looking for a manual column. I have a floor shifter and whoever installed it removed the column shifter from mine. I would upgrade the steering shaft between the column and box. BJ's has a nice borgeson unit if you have the cash. I built my own out of parts from some other shafts I had lying around and a new upper joint I got off ebay. Its amazing how much a little play in those joints translates to a lot of play in the steering wheel.

I have the durango w/snow plow package steering box that is essentially the large bore box with o ring fittings in my CJ. I like the steering feel of this box better than the stock wag box. It pushes 36" SX swampers around with no problem. 2 finger steering o the street. It does only have three mounting holes. I would definitely get the ttfab steering support if you are wheeling it.

No experience with the S10 box but I did run a ZJ box in the CJ before the durango and it didn't have the power for big tires but it was nice and tight on the street.

[carnuck]

I'm putting a ZJ box in my Eagle, and I found a 1 ton Chevy van box that I may put in Black Jack with the bigger piston. I drove my '73 J4000 with everything from 28" to 36" with the stock box on closed knuckles with whatever PS box the previous owner put in (originally it belonged to a retired State Supreme Court judge before I got it)

[Loren Jones]

That steering box brace looks like a really elegant way to stabilize the steering box. I like that.

I googled the OTT high steering arms and it brings up Rocky Road which has great looking kits for wranglers and CJ's but I didn't see any for FSJ's. Am I missing it or is it another company you are referring to?

Tad's TTFab steering box brace and a drop arm to make the bar level along with OTT High Steering arms.

[carnuck]

over the top is in Canada.

[shimniok]

I got rid of my play with: new tie rod and drag link ends, new ball joints. So definitely look at those.

It is still a vague saginaw system but tighter than most FSJs I have driven and pretty much where I think it needs to be.

I still have a rag joint waiting to go in but no compelling reason to bother.



sent from my MotoX

[Loren Jones]

Good to hear. I definitely plan to make all of those new.

I got rid of my play with: new tie rod and drag link ends, new ball joints. So definitely look at those.

It is still a vague saginaw system but tighter than most FSJs I have driven and pretty much where I think it needs to be.

I still have a rag joint waiting to go in but no compelling reason to bother.



sent from my MotoX

[Loren Jones]

Good idea to try to save the stock column. I may switch more for look than anything. I like the look of just a simple steel column coming up with perhaps only wiring for the horn and then just move the key to the dash. We will see. The Borgeson stuff definitely looks very nice and very well made.

What year is your Durango box from? I'm feeling more and more like I don't want to go with just a reman steering gear but rather with a newly manufactured unit such as the PSC (but wow the price) or perhaps a higher quality rebuilt unit like the Borgeson that Team Grand Wagoneer has.

Decisions, decisions...

Thanks

The FSJ column should be fine. You can even take the column shifter arm off if you don't feel like looking for a manual column. I have a floor shifter and whoever installed it removed the column shifter from mine. I would upgrade the steering shaft between the column and box. BJ's has a nice borgeson unit if you have the cash. I built my own out of parts from some other shafts I had lying around and a new upper joint I got off ebay. Its amazing how much a little play in those joints translates to a lot of play in the steering wheel.

I have the durango w/snow plow package steering box that is essentially the large bore box with o ring fittings in my CJ. I like the steering feel of this box better than the stock wag box. It pushes 36" SX swampers around with no problem. 2 finger steering o the street. It does only have three mounting holes. I would definitely get the ttfab steering support if you are wheeling it.

No experience with the S10 box but I did run a ZJ box in the CJ before the durango and it didn't have the power for big tires but it was nice and tight on the street.

[Loren Jones]

I guess I am doing something wrong. When I look for over the top, OTT, high steer I am getting Rocky Road out of Utah which looks like they only do Wrangler and CJ stuff.

Do you happen to have a link?

over the top is in Canada.

[cmaje72]

I believe it was a 98 Durango w/snow plow package but here is the part number:
Cardone 27-7580

[csuengr]

If you want crisp-ish steering, you need your track bar attached. Without the track bar, your steering is going to move the springs sideways first before it moves the steering linkage.

I have an XJ column in my 77' Cherokee. Mostly bolt in. There is cutting involved and you need the XJ upper steering shaft. But the turn signals, wipers, cruise all plug in.

I am also running a steering box from a 95' Caprice. I like to be different, and it was lying around in the garage.

[Cheap Hobby]

All the parts that move, bushings replaced track bar hooked up. Spring bushings and shocks all make a great improvement. All of the bearings and bushings for the shearing column can be found standard GM parts. All the screws and bolts in the column tourqed to spec will do wonders for the steering wheel play. Especially if you have a tilt wheel.

[KJ Ryu]

...Rocky Road out of Utah which looks like they only do Wrangler and CJ stuff....

Even if they have something you need, STAY AWAY! Those bastards still owe me for an upper a-arm for a KJ. Ordered in '07, I think.

[Loren Jones]

OK. Thanks for the heads up.

...Rocky Road out of Utah which looks like they only do Wrangler and CJ stuff....

Even if they have something you need, STAY AWAY! Those bastards still owe me for an upper a-arm for a KJ. Ordered in '07, I think.

[Loren Jones]

All of that stuff will be new. I will still have to decide what to do about using the stock steering column or a replacement.

All the parts that move, bushings replaced track bar hooked up. Spring bushings and shocks all make a great improvement. All of the bearings and bushings for the shearing column can be found standard GM parts. All the screws and bolts in the column tourqed to spec will do wonders for the steering wheel play. Especially if you have a tilt wheel.

[Loren Jones]

Thanks for the part number.

I believe it was a 98 Durango w/snow plow package but here is the part number:
Cardone 27-7580

[Loren Jones]

Excellent point. Thanks for making it. I wasn't fully aware of the usefulness of the track bar so your advice will help out for sure.

If you want crisp-ish steering, you need your track bar attached. Without the track bar, your steering is going to move the springs sideways first before it moves the steering linkage.

I have an XJ column in my 77' Cherokee. Mostly bolt in. There is cutting involved and you need the XJ upper steering shaft. But the turn signals, wipers, cruise all plug in.

I am also running a steering box from a 95' Caprice. I like to be different, and it was lying around in the garage.

[Loren Jones]

Well it seems like the smart money for me would be to get it all put back together with new stock components and an affordable steering box, possibly the Durango unit mentioned by csuengr. If it isn't satisfactory at that point then I will think about expensive upgrade steering boxes like the PSC unit.

Thanks for the advice

[Cheap Hobby]

Moog Problem Solver line. Some online retailers may offer bundles of all parts needed. You can look everything up on Moog site easily