Tight/Crisp Steering questions

[carnuck]

I guess I am doing something wrong. When I look for over the top, OTT, high steer I am getting Rocky Road out of Utah which looks like they only do Wrangler and CJ stuff.

Do you happen to have a link?

over the top is in Canada.

They were bought out. I'm waiting to see if this location (below) is still good for them.

Outlaw Custom & Performance LTD
8128 Westminster Hwy
Richmond, BC, Canada V6X 1A6
604-307-3277

[Loren Jones]

Thanks for the info.

I guess I am doing something wrong. When I look for over the top, OTT, high steer I am getting Rocky Road out of Utah which looks like they only do Wrangler and CJ stuff.

Do you happen to have a link?

over the top is in Canada.

They were bought out. I'm waiting to see if this location (below) is still good for them.

Outlaw Custom & Performance LTD
8128 Westminster Hwy
Richmond, BC, Canada V6X 1A6
604-307-3277

[serehill]

I can tell you the s 10 box is the closest to a bolt on steering system that can tighten the steering up really well. A good tight front end will still be a boat at best. Mine is a lot tighter & has worked well for 7 years even with all the naysayers dissing the system that it would do all these bad things. It has not had one problem. It off roads & tows well. bu8t it's no sports car. A good tight front end with good gas shocks will surprise you.
The only description I can think of is an agile brick is as good as it gets

[Loren Jones]

Glad to hear you are happy with your S10 Box. What year is the one you are using? I just read through a thread over at the old site about doing this swap. I assume the Jeep Pittman arm just fits correctly on the S10 box?

No play in your steering?

Thanks,
Loren

I can tell you the s 10 box is the closest to a bolt on steering system that can tighten the steering up really well. A good tight front end will still be a boat at best. Mine is a lot tighter & has worked well for 7 years even with all the naysayers dissing the system that it would do all these bad things. It has not had one problem. It off roads & tows well. bu8t it's no sports car. A good tight front end with good gas shocks will surprise you.
The only description I can think of is an agile brick is as good as it gets

[serehill]

Well, although mine were flare. I've done the later model & converted to O-ring. I used the late 80's model s 10 box 8 turns lock to lock. It's a great mod In my opinion. It was the fastest response box I could get. It turns my 12.50 33's lock to lock with on finger. I changed nothing but the box. I did replace the rag joint. If I had it to do again I would have replaced the rag with a u joint. It works fine I just would have done it to ensure longevity.
Be aware of your steering boxes connectors type to save confusion & more work. Flare 79 down type will use a 70's style box. O-rings are 80's up will use the 80's model O ring type.
I have the minimum amount of slack/play. A good tight gearbox system will never be like Rack & pinion. I don't agree the track bar eliminates it either. It can minimize one that is bad lose. Tightening it will have the same results. Reduce all the slack in you suspension & it will be the tightest you can get. Any one who tells you a gear box steering system will have zero lash is wrong. Although it's very low on mine it's a characteristic of the system. The S10 box is the nearest to zero as you can get compared to the stock box.

These are my experiences & findings. For my preference. When I bought my Cherokee & Honcho they both had slack in the entire system & drove like boats. In an effort to speed up the steering I replaced the gear boxes & made all reparations to tighten up the entire suspension system because it was 40 years old & everything had slack in it. There was no magic bullet fix. I had to fix everything wrong to get them the way I wanted. What I wanted was a crisp clean steering system for towing & versatility. I got exactly that. Honestly I never thought a Cherokee could work like mine does today. This happened after finding this mod on this forum 6 years ago. It's been on there for 6 years with no issues. Would I do it again Yeah.

[RamJetFSJ]

Ive got VERY tight/crisp steering. My problem now is the lack of trac-bar, causing delayed response to steering input. You sort of have to dial in the input in the steering wheel you think you need, and then wait a second for the input to be felt in the car.

My setup is the AGR Steering Box, Borgeson replacement steering shaft (all u-joints), all new steering components on the axle, and a Drop Pitman arm putting the steering shaft as close to level as possible. This is with 4" Rustys springs, and Extended front shackles. I also have steel shims on the spring pack to get my Caster correct. I do need to rebuild the stock steering column still, and replace the ball joints.

[Jeff from Iowa]

s10 box is just a 800 box, its nothing special.

That same box is used on most gm products cars, cj, wagoneers etc.

[serehill]

Been watching this thread for a while & knowing that tight crisp steering is an oxymoron in a steering gear leaf spring set up. it just does not exist.
By nature this system is slow even the quicker steer boxes won't change the physics & dynamics of the system that causes them to have these characteristics. I can't help but laugh at the guys that think the quicker reacting boxes are going to cause you to roll end over end when the fact of the matter is these lumbering systems just don't & never will have Rack & pinion characteristics in them. The High performance steering boxes are better built & may have slightly more progressive ratios if your moving from stock to them. My Cherokee box is from a late 90's model s-10 & has been doing fine for over 7 years. My Honcho has Late 70's Chevy Monza box that is also fine. Both are half the steering turns lock to lock of the factory boxes without all the fire & brimstone danger spoken about. Neither offer me less than the wildly expensive big name boxes being discussed.
Trac bars on the rear do nothing to influence the front steering period. How can a track bar stop side to side motion on the front? Keeping the system tight & maintained is the only thing that reduces side slop. You can make it better than stock in my opinion but tight & crisp is not in the wheelhouse on a 4500 pound brick.
Don't mean to deflate anyone's balloon. Setting realistic expectations are better than the huge disappointment discovered a thousand bucks later.

[RamJetFSJ]

Ok, then relatively tight/crisp? or how about tighter/crisper?

Because you can definitely make a difference with making sure everything is in good condition, and some well planned modifications. Its not a place you should just ignore and say, yeah, thats just how these old gals are...

[230ohc]

I believe it was a 98 Durango w/snow plow package but here is the part number:
Cardone 27-7580

I'm buying this through summit,
What input shaft spline/diameter u joint and pitman arm did you use?

[Tatsadasayago]

I agree with the suggestions so far and will add some thoughts to the conversation.
I don't know what Jeep did to the 85/96 and later Wagoneers but they are known for frame rail flexing-twisting which translates to a wishy-washy steering response.
Besides the flexing at the steering box, some of the twisting I observed was happening at both of the rear spring mount of the front axle.
Tad's steering box brace will do wonders in eliminating much of that as it prevents the drivers side frame rail from twisting. Add the track bar with good bushings and your steering will be noticeably better.

[cmaje72]

I believe it was a 98 Durango w/snow plow package but here is the part number:
Cardone 27-7580

I'm buying this through summit,
What input shaft spline/diameter u joint and pitman arm did you use?

What year FSJ is it going into? Stock 80-up shaft will work(I think 3/4" 30 spline at the box and I think 1" 48 spline at the column). Stock pitman arm should work. If you want to put a brand new shaft in there Omix-Ada 18024.01 is the one you want. It has real u-joints at both ends. I just put one in my CJ with the durango box. Ebay had the best price 2 weeks ago. These will work on most mid 70's-up FSJ's.
I'm guessing from your handle though that you might have something older? All bets are off if thats the case because I have no experience with anything older than 76.

[230ohc]

I Converted my 64 but the $20 gear box is not good, worked well for mock up.
I'm using fsj bolt plate adapter, the box has 13/16" 36 spline input with flared fitting.
I don't mind changing u joint or fittings I just hope my pitman and adapter are compatible.

The input size(other than .73) was not available from vendor I wasn't sure which u joint to order for that box.


Thanks,
I already pulled the trigger on the Durango box, I need this thing ready for labor day.

[230ohc]

Thanks again for the info on the 27-7580 steering box.
The Durango box mounted up with my adapter and my pitman, it's smaller input u joint(3/4-30)
than my 13/16-36 spline and new o-ring where mine was flared.

??? Anyone used adapter fitting on steering gear from fractional flared lines to metric o ring's on the box ???

[230ohc]

Found a classic performance part number for adapters to fit flared lines to metric o ring box.

605sol.
2 piece set.

18mmx1.5 o ring to 11/16 flare
16mmx1.5 o ring to 5/8 flare