Converting from a 5 lug hub to a 6 lug hub

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BEHEMOTH
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Converting from a 5 lug hub to a 6 lug hub

Post by BEHEMOTH »

Got a '69 gladiator J3000. Dana 44 front and Dana 53 rear (yes it exists). Disc conversions for the rear always seem to require a 6 lug hub for the rotors. Has anyone swapped out the original 5 x 5.5 lug hub to a 6 lug hub? I really don't want to redrill a 6 lug rotor to a 5 x 5.5 pattern, as I have seen done.
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Re: Converting from a 5 lug hub to a 6 lug hub

Post by Stuka »

Personally, I would swap the 53 out for a 30 spline D44. The D44 will be a lot stronger (D53's are infamous for exploding), and you can pick up a J-Truck one that bolts in and is 6 lug (Grab the front axle while you are there as its much stronger than your closed knuckle setup). Or you can get a 5 lug one and use a ford kit that is 5x5.5.

To convert your axle that you have now you will need custom axle shafts, assuming you can even find a place that is willing to make them for you.
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Re: Converting from a 5 lug hub to a 6 lug hub

Post by carnuck »

The D53s tend to die from lack of oil and bad wheel bearings (not available anymore)
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Re: Converting from a 5 lug hub to a 6 lug hub

Post by lkmarsh »

Now I'm curious. You mention rear discs, have you converted the fronts already?
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Re: Converting from a 5 lug hub to a 6 lug hub

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I haven't converted the front yet, but am planning to convert rear and front at the same time. The drums on this thing are a nightmare. Thanks for the advice Stuka. I need to hit the automotive cemetary soon anyway, I'll have to look around and see what I can find for matching Dana 44's from a Jtruck.
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Re: Converting from a 5 lug hub to a 6 lug hub

Post by BEHEMOTH »

So what year J truck should I be looking for, to pull them off of? There are several Wagoneers of varying years (77, 85, and 87) and a J20 locally.
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Re: Converting from a 5 lug hub to a 6 lug hub

Post by mathman »

J-20 should be 8-lug.
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Re: Converting from a 5 lug hub to a 6 lug hub

Post by BEHEMOTH »

Right you are mathman.
Did a little reading on the IFSJA. Sounds like post 1980 would be out, because I would need a passenger-side diff for the front. I'm not sure if the '77 wagoneer would be the correct width, I have read the wagoneers are narrower? Any input before I head out to the yard this weekend. If no one knows, I can just bring a tape measure. I'm not sure whether the '77 is an open or closed knuckle (not getting a clear answer from my google search).
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Re: Converting from a 5 lug hub to a 6 lug hub

Post by Stuka »

It has to be a J-Truck (due to width). If you want 5 lug you want a 70-73 as they had flanged rear axles. Although the front will still be a closed knuckle.

74-79 from a manual Trans J10 will be 6-lug and be open knuckle.

A J20 would be great IMHO. D60 rear axle (Easy to convert to disc brakes) and a D44HD front. You need different wheels, but it's a worthwhile upgrade IMHO.


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Re: Converting from a 5 lug hub to a 6 lug hub

Post by carnuck »

Ford F150s kept the 5 on 5.5 pattern, but they are LH drop. Same with later model Dodges. IH ran disc brakes with the 5 on 5.5 till the end and AFAIK, they kept RH drop till the end of light truck production. Rotors may be hard to find for the early '70s ones.
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Re: Converting from a 5 lug hub to a 6 lug hub

Post by BEHEMOTH »

I am in the process of transplanting an M715 body onto a '69 J3000 frame/chassis. With the M715 body, I'm thinking I will likely need 40 " tires to make the truck look right (looks ridiculous with 35's right now). Right now I have a Dana 44 front (passenger side drop) and Dana 53 rear. I am also hoping to upgrade my brakes to discs on all 4 wheels. I will also be going to hydroboost in the process (which maybe I won't need discs if I have hydroboost). This rig is going to be my daily driver, not going to take it wheelin'. Knowing that my Dana 53 is not a real reliable axle, I want to start looking at different axles, so I don't make upgrades to my current axle to just have it die.
So, I want axles (without a lot of mods: spline changes, etc) that can tolerate 40's on pavement and be an easy setup for discs if necessary.
Would the late 70's J20 (74-79) still be suitable?
They crushed the J20 I was hoping to pull from at the scrap yard (I guess it was on the lot too long - :x ). Any other recs for truck axles (Chevy, GMC, ????).
I plan to keep an eye out at the local scrap yard, so any advice on what year/make/model I should be looking for would be very helpful.
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Re: Converting from a 5 lug hub to a 6 lug hub

Post by Stuka »

Well, for 40's you really need a 60 front. 40" tires are very heavy, even if radials. A 44 wont be a long term solution, the ball joints and bearings don't hold up (And of course in 4wd the shafts will NOT hold up). But for short term it would be fine, just be sure its an 8 lug one so that if you do find a D60 one day, you dont need different wheels. Look for a D44 HD from a J20 or GM K20 truck. You will need to move the spring perches to match the outboard springs on your J3000, but otherwise the width is right and such.

For the rear, things get harder. J-Trucks have very wide frames, so a lot of axles dont work as well unless you inboard the springs, which means 6-7" of lift. So when looking for an axle you need to measure between the backing plates. A 14FF is the cheapest solution, and will stand up to 40's without any issues. However, most of them wont work with the stock drum brakes, they have to be converted to disc, and then have the calipers rotated so they dont hit the springs. A J20 D60 will be fine for street, but it has the same size shafts as a D44. So wheeling will ultimately cause it to fail unless its upgraded to 35 spline shafts. I actually saw a toyta with a D60 snap a shaft with 40's just driving over a mild obstacle. And he still had the 4 banger, no crawl box. But who knows the condition of the shafts, they were 30 year old OEM shafts.
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Re: Converting from a 5 lug hub to a 6 lug hub

Post by BEHEMOTH »

Thanks Stuka, You are a wealth of knowledge. Now I have some direction for my parts hunting.
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Re: Converting from a 5 lug hub to a 6 lug hub

Post by BEHEMOTH »

So, I am looking at a 14bolt ff 10.5” rear and a Dana 60 front off of a GM or chevy 1 ton.
The 14ff is 66” wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface and the backing plates are 53” apart, the outside span of my rear leaf springs is 52”. So it seems like this would work for the rear if I move the spring perches or move my leaf springs to the inside of the frame. I’m planning on doing disc brakes on the rear regardless. What do others recommend, moving spring perches or moving leaf springs to mount on the inside of the frame?
The Dana 60 is currently setup as a dually, but the seller said he will convert it to the single wheel setup which will yield a wms to wms of 69”. The leaf spring center pin span is 31.5” on this dana 60. My leaf springs are mounted outside of the frame and have a center pin span of 39”. Same question as above: Move the spring perches on the axle or mount the leaf springs to the inside of the frame?
Thanks for the advice.
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Re: Converting from a 5 lug hub to a 6 lug hub

Post by Stuka »

You can leave you leafs if you switch to disc, as that moves the backing plates out some, and then you rotate the calipers down a bit to clear the springs.

Moving the rear springs under the frame will work, but it will also give you about 7" of lift. Moving them to the inside of the frame is not an option unless you want to change a lot of things, not to mention it would make it handle quite a bit worse.

If you move the front springs under the frame (Like a 74+ FSJ), using the D60 will also give you 7" of lift. So it will match the rear if you move it under the frame. If you want that lift for bigger tires, then you are set. You will need springs from a 74+ FSJ (Your stockers are 2" springs, you want 2.5" for under frame), and then weld on some spring mounts under the frame into the same location as a 74+. Now if you don't want lift, then you can put new spring perches on the D60 and use your stock springs in their stock location.
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Re: Converting from a 5 lug hub to a 6 lug hub

Post by BEHEMOTH »

I'm really not looking to lift the truck any more. The truck is an M715 body, so there is already plenty of clearance for oversized tires. As it sits now I will probably need 40's to fill the space. When I am moving the spring perches out, I will need to pay close attention to the steering components to make sure everything clears. Anything I should consider for the steering setup?
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