Ford EEC-V based fuel injection

[BGW]

Rolling right along here, if any of you had been reading my original post over on IFSJA...

Got all of the Moates hardware today. Yesterday I was up in Greeley yanking the computer and harness from a 1996 Crown Victoria with the 4.6 V8. I was hoping to find an Expedition with the 5.4, but people had pulled out almost all of the modular engines to reuse. The Crown Vic (an ex cop car) was a lucky find. Pretty much untouched. Luckily for me, 1996 was the first year for EEC-V. I can't believe how much wiring was attached. These are just harnesses in the engine bay (minus the battery cables):



The next step is to get the software all set up, and start tweaking the Ford computer to run the 360 with a Lunati cam. After that, I'll be ordering the intake, injectors, cam, fuel pumps, and the rest of the stuff. This is getting exciting!

[fulsizjeep]

Even when the mothership is back in flight, I will be watching this. Curious how it works out for you. That wiring bundle is crazy. Glad to see you got a nice score. You got a new grille setting back in the shadows? B-)

[BGW]

I wish it was a new grille! It's actually the old one. It looks really nice in that picture, but almost all of the plastic mounting tabs are broken and the "nose" of the grille (under the hood ornament) has the rippling/peeling chrome. Anyone have a FE grille near Boulder?

Yeah, this is looking to be pretty involved. The good thing is that once I figure all of this out, it will be much easier for people to follow suit. You may be wondering why I'm chosing to go with the most complex option. I live up in Boulder with the crazies, and the emissions test is comparable to California. Even though this system was superceded in 2004, EEC-V is still miles ahead of any of the other fuel injection systems that are viable for AMC. This system will allow me to have the cleanest running and most efficient 360 around.

I'm also doing this to show AMC haters how awesome the engines really are. So many people on the forum don't give them a chance before switching to a 350. There are certainly a few flaws, but overall, I think AMC engines are some of the best around. By putting this advanced engine control system on (along with that Lunati cam you like), I'll have a powerful, clean burning, smooth running AMC block under the hood that will spank a 350 any day of the week (*edit: and sound better doing it, too!).

[fulsizjeep]

AMC engines get it done. Now that we have the 401 with the VooDoo home again, we are realizing it has a healthy lope to it.

[jaber]

I was watching your progress too. Might as well subscribe to this one too. \:D/

[The PIG Smith]

I'm also doing this to show AMC haters how awesome the engines really are. So many people on the forum don't give them a chance before switching to a 350. There are certainly a few flaws, but overall, I think AMC engines are some of the best around. By putting this advanced engine control system on (along with that Lunati cam you like), I'll have a powerful, clean burning, smooth running AMC block under the hood that will spank a 350 any day of the week (*edit: and sound better doing it, too!).

I am with you on this line of thinking....with one exception.

I have been lusting after a AMC Hornet or possible Gremlin for my son and I to build into a V8 powered Boulevard Bruiser.
Why? For the same reason you stated so well, so show the AMC Haters than something non-mainstream can perform just as well as anything else.

I am working hard to detail my engine bay of my J10, so others say. "Oh, what is that?", I am lift the hood and proudly say, "That is an AMC V8!"

My only exception to drinking multiple tall glasses of the AMC Kool-aid is I really like my Diesel engines.
Yes, yes, I've yammered about it for years, but once you have enjoyed the fuel economy and performance of a Diesel, there was no going back for me.
My 6.2L Diesel powered cargo van has about the same HP has as a late model, smog choked 360, about 180HP.
However, the GVW rating on my 3500 series van is 9700 pounds and empty, driving like I should, I can get 18-20mpg.
Towing, I can get 16ish.
IMHO, no gasser can do that.

Some day, when I get my life back in order, I want my J20 to be my Diesel powered tow rig and my J10 to be my AMC powered trail rig.

I hope you learn much with this Ford based EFI as to teach the rest of us what to do better and what to avoid.

[BGW]

Diesels are great. I wish AMC had made one! This project was mostly to show that it's possible to bring an AMC block into the 21st century.

At the moment, I'm not making much progress because 1. I'm packing to go to college, and 2. my idiot friend smashed the rear quarter on the GW and we're waiting on insurance. I won't be taking the GW with me to Montana, so the fuel injection will most likely be put on next summer (possibly during winter break). I will, however, be bringing the computer and programming hardware with me to school so I can have all of the software ready to go when I get back to Colorado.

I'm confident that this will be a great solution for us FSJers (and AMCers). Once I have all of this ironed out, I don't think it will be very difficult at all for others to do as well. I'll do everything I can to make it easy for others.


And BTW, I realllly like Gremlins, too. I'm a hopeless AMC fanatic. The Hornets are supposed to be a little faster, I've heard, but they both are great cars. That's really cool that you want a project car for you and your son. There's a 78 Concord and a 77 Hornet nearby for $450 and $500, respectively. They're both in good shape. If I had enough garage space and no parents to worry about, they'd both belong to me.

[jaber]

A very good friend of mine has a 9 second AMX. Its in pieces right now, but it would make the hair on my arms stand up. I ssssoooooo badly want one... ~x(

[The PIG Smith]

And BTW, I realllly like Gremlins, too. I'm a hopeless AMC fanatic. The Hornets are supposed to be a little faster, I've heard, but they both are great cars. That's really cool that you want a project car for you and your son. There's a 78 Concord and a 77 Hornet nearby for $450 and $500, respectively. They're both in good shape. If I had enough garage space and no parents to worry about, they'd both belong to me.

Yes, I really like Gremlins as well.


But ever since the first time I saw James Bond steal that Hornet from the showroom floor in "Man with the Golden Gun", I knew I wanted one!


My desire would be a Hornet Hatchback.
I think it would more be practical and maybe the Hornet's longer wheelbase would provide a better ride and handling.

Even a Hornet Sportabout wagon would be a kewl ride.


I really get off on the whole Sleeper concept.
I would love to spank a newer Mustang, Camaro or Challenger in a hot V8 powered econobox from the '70's

The one thing I like best about Gremlins and 2dr Hornets, they are really cheap cars to pickup as a project.
With a mild 360 backed by a 5 speed from a Fox Body Mustang, these cars can be a real handful and surprise a lot of folks!

I encourage you to perfect the methods and procedures of your Ford EFI, so that a average shadetree mechanic can install a similar system.
Maybe we see more EFI AMC powered vehicles!

[Grand_Wag_85]

Gotta love those late 70's AMC's!

[The PIG Smith]

Feeling somewhat guilty of derailing your build thread, so allow me to refocus this discussion to get it back on track.

I know you are getting back in the going-to-school mode, but share with us some the details of your plans:

Are you planning to use some sort on Edelbrock intake?
Will you modify the intake by welding bungs for injectors?
Will you use the injectors from the cop Crown Vic? or new ones of that same style?
Will you use the fuel rail from the cop Crown Vic or go with an aftermarket fuel rail?
How do you plan on mounting the Ford throttle body on the intake?
Will the Ford EEC-V system talk to the AMC Motorcraft style distributor to control timing?
What electric fuel pump are you planning to use?
Any thoughts of how the cruise control will work with this Ford throttle body?

[BigBlock91]

To am watching and waiting..

[BGW]

Bryan,

I don't think you derailed the thread- thanks for sharing some awesome stuff! I just moved into my dorm, but I have a few minutes.

I'm using the Edelbrock MPFI intake (designed for their system, but they sell it as an individual part) along with their fuel rails. Unfortunately, the fuel rails don't line up between the Ford and AMC port layouts. I left the injectors in the Crown Vic, and I was planning on buying a rebuilt set of injectors for a Ford Triton 5.4 (the 24 lb/hr variety). It really depends on what fits the intake the best- JeepsandGuns mentioned there are some tight clearances with longer injectors.

I'm going to use a low profile metal elbow off the intake and plumb the throttle body in line horizontally.

Ford EEC-V uses coil packs in a wasted spark ignition system, so the dizzy will be gutted to have as few parts as possible. I will retain the trigger wheel inside though, as that will actually work with the modern system as a cam sensor. I will be making a bracket to mount a crank sensor as well.

I'm using two electric fuel pumps. I got the inertia switch from the Crown Vic to shut them off in case of a crash, and the relays to control them as well. I'm using a low pressure Carter pump that feeds an accumulator. The high pressure pump is in line after the accumulator.

Cruise control should be pretty easy to work out. I actually have the cruise control module from the Crown Vic, but I don't have the body computer to control it. The GW cruise cable will reach the throttle body with no issue, so there's no real reason to change anyway. Just a random comment, but if you don't run cruise, the stock GW VSS will work with the Ford fuel injection system as they both use 8 pole sensors.

I'll post up some more later, when I'm not so busy. I'm really excited about this, and I can't wait to get back and finally put the system on the Wag!

[The PIG Smith]

I don't think you derailed the thread- thanks for sharing some awesome stuff!

Thank you!

I'm using the Edelbrock MPFI intake (designed for their system, but they sell it as an individual part) along with their fuel rails.

If you already have this intake, GREAT!
Share with us the Edelbrock part numbers and where you purchased it!
I recall on another forum, I do not remember which one, that some one reported trying to purchase just the AMC MPFI intake was not able to.
That has been some time ago and I do not remember all the details.
My point of bringing this up is if you have not purchased the intake yet, research it the details, as I do not know.

Unfortunately, the fuel rails don't line up between the Ford and AMC port layouts.

Bummer!
So the layout is off how?
The Crown Vic's wiring harness to each injector does not match the injectors on the AMC intake?
Am I understanding that is the issue...or is there something else I am not getting?

I left the injectors in the Crown Vic, and I was planning on buying a rebuilt set of injectors for a Ford Triton 5.4 (the 24 lb/hr variety). It really depends on what fits the intake the best- JeepsandGuns mentioned there are some tight clearances with longer injectors.

Nice!
Can a person use too big of an injector?
Like too large of a carb on a traditional engine?

I'm going to use a low profile metal elbow off the intake and plumb the throttle body in line horizontally.

Edelbrock has some sweet elbows to choice from!
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new ... bows.shtml

Ford EEC-V uses coil packs in a wasted spark ignition system, so the dizzy will be gutted to have as few parts as possible. I will retain the trigger wheel inside though, as that will actually work with the modern system as a cam sensor. I will be making a bracket to mount a crank sensor as well.

Nice idea for the trigger!
Someone on the 'mothership' machined the harmonic balancer to make room for a tone ring (I think that is the correct name the that part)
They owner then created a custom tone ring that was sandwiched between the harmonic balancer and the front of the engine.
The sensor was on a bracket that bolted to the timing chain cover.
It looked very exotic when completed, but someone like me to attempt that level of a project would require hiring a machine shop to complete that work.
There is no way could that be cheap.

I'm using two electric fuel pumps. I got the inertia switch from the Crown Vic to shut them off in case of a crash, and the relays to control them as well. I'm using a low pressure Carter pump that feeds an accumulator. The high pressure pump is in line after the accumulator.

Very smart to have grabbed the inertia switch and the relays.
Small detail commonly overlooked.

Cruise control should be pretty easy to work out. I actually have the cruise control module from the Crown Vic, but I don't have the body computer to control it. The GW cruise cable will reach the throttle body with no issue, so there's no real reason to change anyway. Just a random comment, but if you don't run cruise, the stock GW VSS will work with the Ford fuel injection system as they both use 8 pole sensors.

...if I do not want run cruise? No way! I am lazy and wanna set the cruise on 70+, sit back, relax and ride, ride man, RIDE! HAHAHA