Front shackle reversal

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Phils67
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Front shackle reversal

Post by Phils67 »

I know this has been covered in the past but I just want to hear some first hand experience from those with early trucks that did a front spring shackle reversal. Is it worth the effort? I rarely offroad this truck. Mostly daily drive it on the street no more than 30mph with white knuckles and a puckered butthole. It rides terrible due to the never resolved random front wheel oscillation issues. I want to be able to drive it at highway speeds until i can swap my open knuckle j20 front under it. I have to. My actual daily driver Comanche is down more than it is running so the Gladiator has been used over the last few months for everyday life. You guys are probably sick of hearing about this problem by now but I need to really get this thing driving better until the lift comes out and the stock height springs and new front diff go under it. Do you think doing the FSSR with help with the ride issues? I am even willing to remove the front driveshaft for now if its a travel issue with more spring front and back movement. Anything to get this riding better. Your thoughts?
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.

SJTD
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Re: Front shackle reversal

Post by SJTD »

Doesn't seem that that would be the cure for your problem. Lotsa guys with stock suspension don't have a problem.

If you've got a thread going on your front end problems maybe it would be better to ask this in that one or at least link it?
Sic friatur crustulum

'84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.
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Phils67
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Re: Front shackle reversal

Post by Phils67 »

I don't expect it to cure it, I was just hoping to give it a better ride quality for now with possibly reduced occurances. Its got a 4" lift currently and every little bump feels like it jolts the truck off of the pavement. Basically wishful thinking on my end that if I could reduce the impact of these poorly paved NY roads it wouldn't go into the death wobble so badly.
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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Cecil14
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Re: Front shackle reversal

Post by Cecil14 »

If you're getting death wobble, you've got other suspension problems. Adding more suspension complexity is definitely not the place to start in trying to fix that. If you're planning to pull the lift and put standard height springs in, why not do that now? The shackle reversal is not going to be free, in either time or money, so why not invest that into the end product instead of a stopgap?

Do you have a parent thread for the handling issues you mentioned? No reason to reinvent the wheel here, if you've tried to address this in another thread. Lots of potential advice, but let's see what you've done before we start inundating you with wasted info.


aa
1983 J-10 - 4.6L(MPFI)/CS130D/Hydroboost/NV3550/D300/44/44/3.54/Disc-Disc/32s/42 gallon 'burb tank
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Phils67
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Re: Front shackle reversal

Post by Phils67 »

Basically I have tried everything. All new front end components, tire balance, alignment, castor adjustments, steering box reinforcments, dual stabilizers, shocks, steering column and shaft, etc. The only thing I can think of at this point is the truck just doesn't like the lift kit. It rides terrible with these springs and I regret ever buying them. The closed knuckles leave alot to be desired as far as turning radius and stuff like that. Thats why I am building the new axles now. My body doesn't like climbing into the cab anymore with the lift either. Never had these issues at stock height. The suspension hits a minor bump in the road and it feels like I bounced the truck off of a boulder. All those jolts eventually send the front wheels into oscillation. New axles, stock springs, and monster steering linkages are my final solution. If this doesn't work I am going to rip the body off and stick it on a newer truck chassis. It isn't enjoyable to drive anymore and it all started with that lift kit and 35x12.50s. I won't have the axles finished and suspension parts til this summer/fall timeframe due to finances. With that said, all I have is the gladiator and the comanche, and i can't depend on the comanche running consistantly enough without mechanical failure like i can depend on my FSJ. Thats why I asked about shackle reversal. If it is as easy as turning the spring so the shackle is at the rear post and makes it where I can just drive the damn thing to work semi comfortably without a nonstop fear of crashing from death wobble then it is worth the effort even if it is a temporary bandaid. I don't care if the 4wd works right now, if the driveshaft has to come out then oh well. I live 2 miles from my job, it takes me over10 min to get there, no traffic lights or stop signs, just 30mph or less in a 55 with a convoy of people ticked off behind me. I used to get thumbs up from people, now i just get the middle finger.
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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Phils67
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Re: Front shackle reversal

Post by Phils67 »

My thoughts were to just spin the spring around so the shackle is at the back which would also give me more castor, probably enough that i wouldn't need the 6 degree shims in there anymore, and putting the shackles to the back would allow the front axles to move more when driving into bumps/potholes/etc. From what i have read it improves street ride quality. Not worried about nose diving when braking either. Plenty of clearance here for wheel travel rearward. The big 3 trucks of the same generations drive great and they are all rear mounted shackle setups to my recollection. Imagine speedbumps placed 10 feet apart, and driving a cj5 over them at 75mph.....thats what driving my 120in wheelbase 1/2 ton truck on flat road at 15mph feels like. At 30mph and above its like hitting those imaginary speedbumps at 75mph of a hardtail motorcycle. Just so you guys can get a visual of what this is like. Then throw in a good ol deathwobble every 1/8 mile of driving where you have to lock the brakes in traffic to nearly a complete stop so it goes away and you can continue driving and that is where I am currently at with this thing. Oh, and still no seatbelts sourced to install yet so there is always that...I always tell my wife i want to be driven to my grave in this truck, but i don't want it to be the reason i am going there
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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orionstarsin
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Re: Front shackle reversal

Post by orionstarsin »

If you dont care about 4 wheel drive right now first thing i would do is take out the 6 degree shim and take it for a test drive.

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Cecil14
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Re: Front shackle reversal

Post by Cecil14 »

Yes, the shackle reversal does help immensely with the front ride, but if your springs are that hard to begin with I doubt it's going to cure your problem. I think you'd see some other issues with just moving the shackle to the back as well. The springs are not symmetrical, though the front springs are close I believe, so your front axle would move a bit one direction or the other if you flip the springs. You may well find that the axle is taking up space something else is supposed to by moving the front of the spring up ~4" also. The shackle reversal kits out there address those problems by moving the perches around to keep the geometry relatively stock. You can certainly measure things out, I may be wrong, but I would look really carefully before trying it.

Do you have a steering stabilizer? Are your shocks *good*? Not just new, but good. I couldn't believe the difference it made switching from cheap parts store shocks to the Bilsteins; completely night and day. One thing you could try for free is disconnecting the shocks. Just pull them off and drive it around a bit, does the ride soften up at all?

As to the ride, did you leave everything loose when you installed the springs and bounce it a bit before tightening things down? Did you over torque the spring/shackle bolts? They don't need to be Mr. Universe tight. I know some lift springs plainly just suck, but it sounds to me like you really have something else going on. I know it's easy to say that without being there, so don't think I'm trying to undercut what you've already done. Just trying to throw out some new ideas to help with troubleshooting.

It's probably just my personal opinion, but I really don't think moving the shackle is going to net you what you're after here.


aa
1983 J-10 - 4.6L(MPFI)/CS130D/Hydroboost/NV3550/D300/44/44/3.54/Disc-Disc/32s/42 gallon 'burb tank
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Cecil14
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Re: Front shackle reversal

Post by Cecil14 »

Something else that just came to mind as well: do you have any other tires you could test out? Something closer to factory size, maybe a 31" or so? Maybe someone you could swap tires with for a couple hours? Even just getting the front tires swapped would help troubleshoot. Not sure what tires you have, but even in good shape and balanced, those could be a huge part of your problem. A lot of off road tires just have terrible road manners, nothing to be done about it.


aa
1983 J-10 - 4.6L(MPFI)/CS130D/Hydroboost/NV3550/D300/44/44/3.54/Disc-Disc/32s/42 gallon 'burb tank
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Phils67
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Re: Front shackle reversal

Post by Phils67 »

orionstarsin wrote:If you dont care about 4 wheel drive right now first thing i would do is take out the 6 degree shim and take it for a test drive.

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I put the shim in not too long ago with hopes it would resolve this. No change at all with or without it
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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Phils67
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Re: Front shackle reversal

Post by Phils67 »

Cecil14 wrote:Something else that just came to mind as well: do you have any other tires you could test out? Something closer to factory size, maybe a 31" or so? Maybe someone you could swap tires with for a couple hours? Even just getting the front tires swapped would help troubleshoot. Not sure what tires you have, but even in good shape and balanced, those could be a huge part of your problem. A lot of off road tires just have terrible road manners, nothing to be done about it.


aa
Federal couragia mt currently. You could not give me another set. Terrible tire. I wish i had other tires to swap on.
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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