5.3 Vortec swap

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The Wagg
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Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:33 pm

5.3 Vortec swap

Post by The Wagg »

Hey yall, I got the opportunity to swap out the 360 I have in the wagoneer now for a fresh 5.3 vortec. Obviously things like motor mounts, driveshaft and trans mounts are things I need to get, but what else is there? Im pretty sure the danna 44 in the rear will hold the power, its only around 300hp/300tq at most but its all the original running gear in the car with 135k on it. What would be the main things to get. Thanks yall
1988 Grand Wagoneer with Dark Baltic Blue Metallic paint / Tan interior. Nicknamed by friends as "F**K!"


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derf
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Re: 5.3 Vortec swap

Post by derf »

What are you doing for a transmission and/or transfer case? Are you going to stick with what you have or swap in something that comes with the 5.3?

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The Wagg
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Re: 5.3 Vortec swap

Post by The Wagg »

derf wrote:What are you doing for a transmission and/or transfer case? Are you going to stick with what you have or swap in something that comes with the 5.3?
Its got the 4l60e trans, and as for the transfer case I would have no idea what to get since this is the first time ive messed with a 4wd car. Thats why I got you knowledgeable guys and the forum lol
1988 Grand Wagoneer with Dark Baltic Blue Metallic paint / Tan interior. Nicknamed by friends as "F**K!"


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derf
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Re: 5.3 Vortec swap

Post by derf »

Did the drivetrain come out of a 4wd or 2wd donor?

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The Wagg
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Re: 5.3 Vortec swap

Post by The Wagg »

derf wrote:Did the drivetrain come out of a 4wd or 2wd donor?
The 5.3 came from a 2005 chevy Avalanche, when me and my dad got the engine there was no transfer case that came with it so ill assume its a from a 2wd truck. We already have as funny as it is, a 2005 avalanche and it works like a charm and gets done any off roading i've ever wanted to do just fine so i have no interest in taking the Waggy offroad and frankly I would just want to take out the 4wd to eliminate any problems, and I feel like that would maybe be cost effective. Could the danna 44 in the front just be left disconnected?
1988 Grand Wagoneer with Dark Baltic Blue Metallic paint / Tan interior. Nicknamed by friends as "F**K!"


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derf
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Re: 5.3 Vortec swap

Post by derf »

Don't assume. The Avalanche came from the factory with both 2 and 4 wheel drive configurations.

A 2wd will have a cone shaped cover on the back where the rear driveshaft slip yoke slides in.

A 4wd will have an adapter with a round 6 bolt pattern bolted to the back of the transmission (which has a hex shaped 6 bolt layout).

If you have nothing bolted to the back of the transmission and just an output shaft sticking out, you need to measure how far the shaft sticks out to tell which one it was set up for. I think the long 2wd shaft sticks out 5" where the shorter 4wd shaft sticks out only a couple of inches.

Novak has a good page on the transmission: https://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/t ... tic/4l60e/

This is a 4L60E with no 2wd or 4wd adapter bolted to the back:

Image

This one is a 2wd with the cone shaped cover on the back:

Image

Eastudio
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Re: 5.3 Vortec swap

Post by Eastudio »

I did a ls swap 5.3 4l60e with a np241c last year this is my experience with my intention been daily driver and overlanding
I will say, the dana 44s with the original 3.31 will be fine if you stay on 29”s 30”s tires mine has 32”s and it is a little struggle Im looking to do 4.10 wear ratio
Cooling system is important need a new radiator, ether electric or original fan, If your wallet allows I recommend go with aluminum combo with electric dual speed
exhaust system recommend
start with 2.5” for each side to a 3” single
For fuel system
tank I went with a suburban 44 gallon, if you are not lifting the jeep I will say go with the bjs ls swap fuel pump for the original tank or the blazer tank and invest in new lines
This are the general considerations
Within those general systems there are many choices depending on what is your intended use for the jeep. I will say ls swap is worth it
There is good library of swaps in this forum with specific recommendations
Is always nice to see another wagoner on the street
Good luck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Topic author
The Wagg
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Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:33 pm

Re: 5.3 Vortec swap

Post by The Wagg »

derf wrote:Don't assume. The Avalanche came from the factory with both 2 and 4 wheel drive configurations.

A 2wd will have a cone shaped cover on the back where the rear driveshaft slip yoke slides in.

A 4wd will have an adapter with a round 6 bolt pattern bolted to the back of the transmission (which has a hex shaped 6 bolt layout).

If you have nothing bolted to the back of the transmission and just an output shaft sticking out, you need to measure how far the shaft sticks out to tell which one it was set up for. I think the long 2wd shaft sticks out 5" where the shorter 4wd shaft sticks out only a couple of inches.

Novak has a good page on the transmission: https://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/t ... tic/4l60e/

This is a 4L60E with no 2wd or 4wd adapter bolted to the back:

Image

This one is a 2wd with the cone shaped cover on the back:

Image
Thank for the good response its a 4wd trans, could I use it just for 2wd or does it need to be hooked up to a transfer case to work? sorry if that seems like a dumb question im just out of my element with these Jeeps. But god I love them now
1988 Grand Wagoneer with Dark Baltic Blue Metallic paint / Tan interior. Nicknamed by friends as "F**K!"


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|[::::][:::::::][::::]|
.\---(o)----------(o)-/

Topic author
The Wagg
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:33 pm

Re: 5.3 Vortec swap

Post by The Wagg »

Eastudio wrote:I did a ls swap 5.3 4l60e with a np241c last year this is my experience with my intention been daily driver and overlanding
I will say, the dana 44s with the original 3.31 will be fine if you stay on 29”s 30”s tires mine has 32”s and it is a little struggle Im looking to do 4.10 wear ratio
Cooling system is important need a new radiator, ether electric or original fan, If your wallet allows I recommend go with aluminum combo with electric dual speed
exhaust system recommend
start with 2.5” for each side to a 3” single
For fuel system
tank I went with a suburban 44 gallon, if you are not lifting the jeep I will say go with the bjs ls swap fuel pump for the original tank or the blazer tank and invest in new lines
This are the general considerations
Within those general systems there are many choices depending on what is your intended use for the jeep. I will say ls swap is worth it
There is good library of swaps in this forum with specific recommendations
Is always nice to see another wagoner on the street
Good luck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Im going to swap the engine in first, but I plan on doing a 4 inch lift with 32 or 33 inch tires. With that in mind is there anything else I should get for the swap now? Also do you happen to know who made your motor motor mounts?
1988 Grand Wagoneer with Dark Baltic Blue Metallic paint / Tan interior. Nicknamed by friends as "F**K!"


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derf
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Re: 5.3 Vortec swap

Post by derf »

The Wagg wrote:Thank for the good response its a 4wd trans, could I use it just for 2wd or does it need to be hooked up to a transfer case to work? sorry if that seems like a dumb question im just out of my element with these Jeeps. But god I love them now
The output shaft is different between the two. The swap is straightforward but involves a full rebuild of the transmission.

Topic author
The Wagg
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Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:33 pm

Re: 5.3 Vortec swap

Post by The Wagg »

derf wrote:
The Wagg wrote:Thank for the good response its a 4wd trans, could I use it just for 2wd or does it need to be hooked up to a transfer case to work? sorry if that seems like a dumb question im just out of my element with these Jeeps. But god I love them now
The output shaft is different between the two. The swap is straightforward but involves a full rebuild of the transmission.
Yikes, why does the transmission need to be rebuilt? If the car weren't to have 4wd at all would the transmission still need to be rebuilt?
1988 Grand Wagoneer with Dark Baltic Blue Metallic paint / Tan interior. Nicknamed by friends as "F**K!"


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babywag
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Re: 5.3 Vortec swap

Post by babywag »

The output shaft is the last piece to come out of the trans. meaning it has to be 100% disassembled to swap a 2wd output shaft in there.
Doesn't HAVE to be rebuilt, but might as well since the labor is already being done.
-Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag)
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derf
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Re: 5.3 Vortec swap

Post by derf »

The Wagg wrote:Yikes, why does the transmission need to be rebuilt? If the car weren't to have 4wd at all would the transmission still need to be rebuilt?
babywag wrote:The output shaft is the last piece to come out of the trans. meaning it has to be 100% disassembled to swap a 2wd output shaft in there.
Doesn't HAVE to be rebuilt, but might as well since the labor is already being done.
This. Everything has to come apart to get the tail shaft out. Well, one bearing can stay in I think. But you have it basically 100% apart. Why not do a rebuild with fresh parts?

If it's a 4x4 transmission in good working order, the easiest transfer case to bolt up to it would be a Chevy transfer case.

If you have a 70's wagoneer, you'd want to find a passenger side drop NP208 from an 80's truck/Blazer/Suburban. The last couple of years of the K5 Blazer changed over to the NP241 (a new generation derived from the 208) with a passenger side drop. As an alternative, you can probably find an NP203 on a 70's donor. Or even an NP205. But you have to make sure you get the 205 with the right input shaft.

If you have an 80's wagoneer, you'll want to find a drivers side drop NP241 from a truck/K5 Blazer/Suburban. As an alternative, there are a few all-wheel-drive and electric shift transfer cases depending on which donor you go with. But the easiest to get working is the manual shift NP241.

The change over from passenger side to driver side output happened in the late 80's/early 90's and was staggered in over 2-3 years.

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The Wagg
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Re: 5.3 Vortec swap

Post by The Wagg »

derf wrote:
The Wagg wrote:Yikes, why does the transmission need to be rebuilt? If the car weren't to have 4wd at all would the transmission still need to be rebuilt?
babywag wrote:The output shaft is the last piece to come out of the trans. meaning it has to be 100% disassembled to swap a 2wd output shaft in there.
Doesn't HAVE to be rebuilt, but might as well since the labor is already being done.
This. Everything has to come apart to get the tail shaft out. Well, one bearing can stay in I think. But you have it basically 100% apart. Why not do a rebuild with fresh parts?

If it's a 4x4 transmission in good working order, the easiest transfer case to bolt up to it would be a Chevy transfer case.

If you have a 70's wagoneer, you'd want to find a passenger side drop NP208 from an 80's truck/Blazer/Suburban. The last couple of years of the K5 Blazer changed over to the NP241 (a new generation derived from the 208) with a passenger side drop. As an alternative, you can probably find an NP203 on a 70's donor. Or even an NP205. But you have to make sure you get the 205 with the right input shaft.

If you have an 80's wagoneer, you'll want to find a drivers side drop NP241 from a truck/K5 Blazer/Suburban. As an alternative, there are a few all-wheel-drive and electric shift transfer cases depending on which donor you go with. But the easiest to get working is the manual shift NP241.

The change over from passenger side to driver side output happened in the late 80's/early 90's and was staggered in over 2-3 years.
Ok, if that's the case then I'm going to stick with 4wd, thanks for the help. How would the linkage between the gear selector and the 4l60 work? IS there a kit for it?
1988 Grand Wagoneer with Dark Baltic Blue Metallic paint / Tan interior. Nicknamed by friends as "F**K!"


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redfalcon302
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Re: 5.3 Vortec swap

Post by redfalcon302 »

Following...because I'm going to LS my '73. Good luck!
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ProTouring442
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Re: 5.3 Vortec swap

Post by ProTouring442 »

Do a lot of searching on here, and a lot of reading, both here and anywhere else you can find info. There are several threads that follow a swap like yours.

Take your time and be careful!

Here's my swap: http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewtop ... =12&t=1850
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derf
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Re: 5.3 Vortec swap

Post by derf »

The Wagg wrote:Ok, if that's the case then I'm going to stick with 4wd, thanks for the help. How would the linkage between the gear selector and the 4l60 work? IS there a kit for it?
You can get aftermarket parts to hook up the column shifter to the transmission. Lokar makes several kits that you can choose from. Though going from a 3 speed to a 4 speed means you're not able to shift all the way down to 1st gear as there aren't enough stops built into the column to select all gears.

I ended up putting a full Lokar shifter on my 700R4 (predecessor to the 4L60E). It attaches to the transmission and the shifter comes up through the floor.

Though as I plan my next swap, I'm looking at figuring out a way to get some internal parts out of a steering column from a GM truck or van and swap them into the Jeep steering column. (They're both GM columns so it might work.) From there I will be able to do a Lokar cable shift that bolts to the end of the steering column and runs a cable to the transmission.

cmaje72
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Re: 5.3 Vortec swap

Post by cmaje72 »

I am not sure on your Waggy but my 79 cherokee had a th400 in it and all I had to do was remove the shifter parts from from the th400 and it bolted directly to the 4l60e. I lined the shifter up when I was determining the drivetrain location. I was also able to use the factory crossmember just had to drill 2 new holes as the mounts were different.
79 Cherokee 5.3/4l65E/NP241C
79 CJ7
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