Electric Fuel Pump but not for Fuel Injection

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Thomas792
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:02 am

Electric Fuel Pump but not for Fuel Injection

Post by Thomas792 »

I’m nearly finished with my Master’s Degree and I’d like to get back to my 1988 Grand Wagoneer. It has mostly sat without being used for the past three years except when I would take it to the service station for its annual safety inspection. To get it to start would require A LOT of cranking to get fuel into the carb. Last year I tricked the system by dribbling gas directly into the center of the carb being careful not to put in too much. It would start after a second or two but then die. This took a long time to get the fuel into the carb so that it would run.

This year I followed the same procedures and ended up draining my battery. I had to take it to Autozone to charge it since my 1977 Sears battery charger no longer works. I eventually got the GW going and headed to the service station. Waiting in line I let the GW idle so it would charge the battery. The line is on an incline and I ran out of gas. 1 hour, three gallons of gas, and two jumps later I was back in action. I’ve resolved to go electric fuel pump to solve some of these issues. I’m going to convert to an external electric fuel pump using the same method that I did on my 83 CJ when I went to the Howell fuel injection.

Here’s where I need help. I have the 360 with an Edelbrock 140X carb. Everything on their website says no more than 6.5 PSI. Doing the math I believe I need 35 to 40 gallons per hour out of the pump. Airtex has two external electric pumps that might work but I’m not sure which to use:
E8004 - 12 volt, 4–6 PSI, 35 GPH, 5/16” Hose barb
E8012S - 12 volt, 5–9 PSI, 30 GPH, 5/16” Hose barb
Both appear to be applicable.
Pros:
E8004:
1. Looks to be a near perfect match for the requirements.
2. Looks easy to install with two support brackets and rubber isolators.
3. Has hose barbs on both ends that easily connect to 5/16 fuel line with clamps.
4. Allows the use of any fuel filter with barb ends.
5. Has posts for electrical connections which means that a wire torn off during offroading should be easily replaceable because the wire will snap external to the pump.
8012S
1. Looks easy to install with the single bolt and wrap around clamp.
2. Half the price of E8004.
3. Solid metal threaded connections between fuel filter and pump.
4. Overall a shorter package? (8.2 inches including filter?)
Cons:
E8004:
1. Twice the price of the E8012S.
2. May not provide enough pressure considering fuel filter with return line.
3. Plastic threaded inlet for female barbed fitting does not give a warm and fuzzy feeling.
4. Looks longer and may require a lot of work to fit into a protected area on the frame. (9 inches for just the pump?)
E8012S:
1. Wires run into the pump and a snag while offroading could kill the pump.
2. Requires a dedicated fuel filter that is threaded (just carry spares I guess).
3. Provides pressure over the specs of the carb but fuel filter with return line may resolve this issue.

Looking forward to the discussion on which one to buy or alternate considerations.
1974 J10 - 401, TH400, QT, D44, 28" tires - Sold under duress
1988 GW - "Mrs Tickety" - 360, 727, NP228, D44, 32" tires
Retired Marine

will e
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Re: Electric Fuel Pump but not for Fuel Injection

Post by will e »

I use one of these:
https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Gasket-12S-Mi ... B000BWCERY

401 with Holley carb. At idle, engine off, pump on, it produces 5 1/2 PSI (measured with a gauge on my jeep). No issues keeping up with the required fuel for my engine. It is compact and can mount to the rear frame rail. I carry a spare. I have had them die on me twice. Both times used the spare and then went to the local auto store and purchased another one. Super easy to swap out. A little bit noisy but no where near as bad as the Holley 'red pump' I used to run.
81 Waggy 'WILL E' Retired
82 Cherokee WT - SOA/SF/high steer/Alcan springs/agr box/Borgeson steering shaft/AMC 401/performer/holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS (2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave, Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37X12.5/Corbeau XRS Baja & 5 point retractable harness/Hella Aux lights/tuffy console/killer32 sliders/Evil Twin bumpers, rack and roll cage/WARN 8000/TT Fabworks steering brace/dual batts/custom TC skid plate/ARB fridge
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Dr. Marneaus
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Re: Electric Fuel Pump but not for Fuel Injection

Post by Dr. Marneaus »

is your masters degree in engineering? Because it seems like you're way over thinking.

I bolted up a Holley Red pump with some -6AN hose and called it good. Worked wonderfully.

This isn't rocket surgery.
Well it ain't just the smoke and the traffic jam that makes me the bitter fool I am But this four-wheel buggy is A-dollaring me to death.
For gas and oils and fluids and grease, And wires and tires and anti freeze....And them accessories, Well honey, that's something else.

letank
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Re: Electric Fuel Pump but not for Fuel Injection

Post by letank »

I put a carter P4070 and called it good enough, numbers may have changed, no fancy fittings, your basic spring clamp...

Image

As for your start up procedure with the mechanical pump, you need to repeat the fuel dump down the air horn a few times until the fuel is being primed, about 4 times on my latest project...
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (229 Kmiles... the running test lab)
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derf
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Re: Electric Fuel Pump but not for Fuel Injection

Post by derf »

Sounds a lot like the mechanical fuel pump is worn out. A new one may do better at priming after sitting for so long. I will also echo the sentiment that doing more than one round of dribbling fuel into the venturies to get it to run and prime on its own.

It could also be that after sitting for so long, you have gotten crud sucked up through the pickup in the tank and it's gummed up the pump. Adding a pre-filter in line before the pump is never a bad idea.

Still, adding an electric pump doesn't hurt. I would always carry a spare though as they are notorious for going out.

Topic author
Thomas792
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:02 am

Re: Electric Fuel Pump but not for Fuel Injection

Post by Thomas792 »

Will e – I saw that one in my research but couldn’t find too many specifics on it. Just about as much negative feedback on Amazon as positive. I like the compact size. Thanks.

Dr. Marneaus – not an engineer but I tend to put a lot of thought into things. Of all the reviews and posts I read about the Holley Red, all of them said it is loud. I’d rather not have that.

Letank – I read a few of your posts about the P4070 and looked at your Picsa pictures. I like your transmission diaper. I had a huge selector shaft seal leak. Replaced it and now only the engine leaks.

Derf – after it starts running on its own without me spoon feeding it works great. I definitely have a dry carb because it sits for months on end. I figured an electric fuel pump with that three prong oil pressure switch would surely help.
1974 J10 - 401, TH400, QT, D44, 28" tires - Sold under duress
1988 GW - "Mrs Tickety" - 360, 727, NP228, D44, 32" tires
Retired Marine
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ghcoe
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Re: Electric Fuel Pump but not for Fuel Injection

Post by ghcoe »

I used the Holley Red and it did not last a year before it started leaking. It only had a 90 day warranty. I then switched to this pump from Oreilly which comes with a life time warranty. Already been running for a 1 1/2 with no problems. Much quieter than the Holley. I do believe it is a rebadged Carter pump.
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/pr ... sal&pos=17 .

It does put out up to 8psi so you would probably need a pressure regulator too. Extra pressure is good because with different operating conditions pressures can fluctuate. Pressures are measured in optimum conditions so it is good to have some reserve. Being a engineer I think you know what that means.....
Good luck, George.
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will e
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Re: Electric Fuel Pump but not for Fuel Injection

Post by will e »

ghcoe wrote:
It does put out up to 8psi so you would probably need a pressure regulator too. Extra pressure is good because with different operating conditions pressures can fluctuate. Pressures are measured in optimum conditions so it is good to have some reserve. Being a engineer I think you know what that means.....
Have you measured it yourself? My Mr. G is rated for 4 to 7. When the engine is running it stays below 6. While driving the pressure jumps around a bit and when I get on it I can see the pressure drop to as low as 3. My sending unit is right at the carb, after the fuel filter.
I have mentioned in several threads the advantage of having a fuel pressure gauge in the cab. Super valuable info.
81 Waggy 'WILL E' Retired
82 Cherokee WT - SOA/SF/high steer/Alcan springs/agr box/Borgeson steering shaft/AMC 401/performer/holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS (2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave, Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37X12.5/Corbeau XRS Baja & 5 point retractable harness/Hella Aux lights/tuffy console/killer32 sliders/Evil Twin bumpers, rack and roll cage/WARN 8000/TT Fabworks steering brace/dual batts/custom TC skid plate/ARB fridge

ShagWagon
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Re: Electric Fuel Pump but not for Fuel Injection

Post by ShagWagon »

Wrap the fuel pump in some kind of rubber blanket wrap bracket to kill the noise.

Or go with an optimal in-tank.
87 Grand Wagoneer Rebuilt 360 by S&J, Fitech GO EFI 600, Novak in-tank fuel pump, Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift, BFG AT KO2 30", Dynamax Muffler, MSD distributor, MSD ignition, Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake, Elgin perf cam, Oil tube mod, Roller rockers, chrome molly lifters, HD alum radiator, Powermaster 150/100 alt, Alum HD water pump, Serhills tailgate harness, Cowl screen mod, Evil Twin grab handles, Rstep's custom AMC door lock knobs, all electrical works.
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kansasboy001
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Re: Electric Fuel Pump but not for Fuel Injection

Post by kansasboy001 »

I used a intank pump for a 95 suburban and a quick fuel bypass regulator and modified the pickup tube. Easy for the pre 1986 tubes but it can still be done for the later ones. I removed the factory return tube from thr sending unit and used nylon barbed fittings and made a nipple on the under side of the sending unit, then used polyethylene tubing from there to the pump. You cant use metal tubing as theres not enough room to put the entire assembly in the tank at once. The pump has to be dropped in with the poly tubing and then the tubing goes on the nipple and gets a clamp. You then use the original pickup tube as the return. Its alot of work but a in tank pump of good quailty should out last a external mechanical one and the whole line having 17lbs pressure till the regualtor in the engine compartment helps with vapor lock in extremly hot weather.
1983 Cherokee Laredo. 360/ 727/ np228/ Junkyard 7427 TBI/ Msd ignition
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Gumby
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Re: Electric Fuel Pump but not for Fuel Injection

Post by Gumby »

One thing to consider. If the pump is an inline pump be careful of the operating temperature. I've been having issues vapour locking, my electric pump was operating at 120° which is beyond the boiling point of gasoline. Changed pump and now I'm good again. Just a thought for your plans.
1984 GW 360/727/208.... 4"/ 31"
2004 CRD QC SRW 3500 4X4 (DD)
1983 "project Dubya" (long term)
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kansasboy001
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Re: Electric Fuel Pump but not for Fuel Injection

Post by kansasboy001 »

Gumby is right. The carter pumps are no longer made in the us and not as good as they once were. Id highly suggest going the in tank route
1983 Cherokee Laredo. 360/ 727/ np228/ Junkyard 7427 TBI/ Msd ignition
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