Questions about possibly converting to a manual

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derf
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Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Post by derf »

I've been thinking about several engine swap options for Truck Norris. One that comes up is a donor drivetrain with a GM engine and NV4500 manual.

The 4500 is a hydraulic clutch and I know I'd like to keep it that way.

I know I can find a pedal assembly that comes with a clutch pedal.

I'm also probably going to do the hydroboost swap when I swap in the engine so that'll clear some space for the hydraulic master on the firewall.

The question then goes to what master to use. What bolts up to the firewall? What about rod length? What kind of mods would I have to do to make that work? I'm thinking I'd like to try and use the same master from the donor truck (at least a new/remanufactured one). Would you think that the donor's stock hydraulic line would work?

I see that BJ's sells a kit to swap in a hydraulic clutch in place of the mechanical linkage. How well would that work?

Any advice and experience would be appreciated. :-bd
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Cecil14
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Post by Cecil14 »

I can't say if any of it will work with the NV4500 clutch, but I'm using the stock setup out of a '99 TJ with an NV3550. Everything fits really well. I think I had to drill a couple holes to bolt the master cylinder to the firewall, but I believe everything else hooked up directly (it's been about a decade, so I could be forgetting something). The only thing I really don't like about the stock TJ setup is that it uses a pre-connected/molded master/hose/slave setup. It's not designed to be bled, and it's a bit of a pain to handle. It can be bled, there's lots of info about doing it online, but it's not as simple as opening a bleeder screw on the slave like a real setup would be.

Other than that, I've been super happy with my setup. I'd never go back to a manual clutch for all the money in the world.


aa
1983 J-10 - 4.6L(MPFI)/CS130D/Hydroboost/NV3550/D300/44/44/3.54/Disc-Disc/32s/42 gallon 'burb tank
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tedlovesjeeps71
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

Remind me tomorrow and I'll let you look at my hydraulic stuff I'm gonna use on my scrambler.

csuengr
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Post by csuengr »

It’s been a couple years since I did it, but as I remember:

Go with a hydro boost setup.
You will have to drill holes in the firewall for the clutch master cylinder.
Measure twice or three, four times before you drill because if your off, welcome to swear city. (My master cylinder push rod now needs an S bend in it)
I had to drill a hole in my clutch pedal and weld in a stud for the master cylinder push rod.
1977 Cherokee S, Ford 5.0, 5 speed, BW 1356, 33 x 10.50 BFG's. No longer my DD.
2007 Mercury Milan, 2.3L, 5-speed, now my DD. 29 mpg average.

fsj454
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Post by fsj454 »

I did all the above . The question is what year nv4500 ????? . I used 1995 nv4500 that has external slave with all gm factory parts from junk yard . There is a factory hole in a stock amc clutch pedal that I used above factory stock setup. The most important thing is placing clutch slave cylinder resivor to line up with top hole on clutch pedal .And I had to modify Hydroboost rod to brake pedal you can pull rod out of hydroboost for modification. I have a complete brake and clutch assembly from low mileage truck for sale ... BEEN THERE DONE THAT .
:fsj:454.nv4500.205.twin stick.hydo boost. hydrolic clutch.dana 60s.soa.37s 17inch.tration bar.warn 1200. 4 wheel disc.aero29 gallon .conferr roof rack.spal pulse width modulation.spal duel fans.painless battery isolator.duel batterys.factory cb. headers 2 1/2 duels.4.56 Detroit locker.alloy 35 spline axles.stainless brake lines .holley 770.edelbrock.fuel.water.intake.H4s.head light relays.racho 9000 shocks.rock ram.steering box brace.j20 steering box.msd8265 probillet distributor.msd super conductor wires.
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Grand_Wag_85
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Post by Grand_Wag_85 »

BJ's sells a hydraulic clutch conversion kit for the FSJ. I don't blame you for wanting to go that route. My J10 has a harder clutch pedal than a semi truck!
82 J10
77 J10 Golden Eagle 401
88 GW

You know it's bad when your car is on the EPA's 10 most wanted list!

Fast Eddie
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Post by Fast Eddie »

Interesting post! The PO converted my J20 to a NV4500 and used the stock AMC manual linkage. Works great, very light pedal and no issues having to find a mounting a slave M/C either!! He got all the adapters from ADVANCED and it is a great package IMO. Just another conversion option!
BTW this 4500 trans came out of a Dodge truck.....
1979 J20, 360 w/NV4500/D300 Twin Stick/3.73 SOLD
1978 Cherokee Chief W/T Levi interior, 360 Q/T. SCRAPPED
1970 Gladiator J4800 Camper Special, Buick 350, 4spd. SOLD
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Phils67
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Post by Phils67 »

Fast Eddie wrote:Interesting post! The PO converted my J20 to a NV4500 and used the stock AMC manual linkage. Works great, very light pedal and no issues having to find a mounting a slave M/C either!! He got all the adapters from ADVANCED and it is a great package IMO. Just another conversion option!
BTW this 4500 trans came out of a Dodge truck.....
Since it comes out of a Dodge wouldnt it have an AMC bellhousing? What was needed from AA? Transfer adapter?
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.

fsj454
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Post by fsj454 »

The top hole in the stock clutch pedal is there but you have to remove rubber stopper and use that hole ..These are very tricky units you must have clutch spring on unit before you install or you will not get spring on latter . MY HYDROBOOST has 1 ton 4 wheel disc brakes on 35s And HYDRAULIC CLUTCH . aLL jUNk yArd pArtS MODIFIED DD
:fsj:454.nv4500.205.twin stick.hydo boost. hydrolic clutch.dana 60s.soa.37s 17inch.tration bar.warn 1200. 4 wheel disc.aero29 gallon .conferr roof rack.spal pulse width modulation.spal duel fans.painless battery isolator.duel batterys.factory cb. headers 2 1/2 duels.4.56 Detroit locker.alloy 35 spline axles.stainless brake lines .holley 770.edelbrock.fuel.water.intake.H4s.head light relays.racho 9000 shocks.rock ram.steering box brace.j20 steering box.msd8265 probillet distributor.msd super conductor wires.
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tedlovesjeeps71
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

Phils67 wrote:
Fast Eddie wrote:Interesting post! The PO converted my J20 to a NV4500 and used the stock AMC manual linkage. Works great, very light pedal and no issues having to find a mounting a slave M/C either!! He got all the adapters from ADVANCED and it is a great package IMO. Just another conversion option!
BTW this 4500 trans came out of a Dodge truck.....
Since it comes out of a Dodge wouldnt it have an AMC bellhousing? What was needed from AA? Transfer adapter?
Umm... No.
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Phils67
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Post by Phils67 »

Ok....I don't follow the technical specs of Dodge nor do I care to. I haven't read up on any NV4500 Dodge swaps to an AMC engine either. Thats why I asked. Judging by your reply I am under the assumption a bellhousing or bell adapter as well. I'll have to read up on it more. Thanks for the clarification though
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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Cecil14
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Post by Cecil14 »

NOTHING shares a bellhousing pattern with AMC. The Ford "butterfly" pattern stuff in the 80s is about as close as it gets, and that's only because a custom bellhousing was the cheapest/easiest way to get the Ford transmission in there.


aa
1983 J-10 - 4.6L(MPFI)/CS130D/Hydroboost/NV3550/D300/44/44/3.54/Disc-Disc/32s/42 gallon 'burb tank
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tedlovesjeeps71
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

Phils67 wrote:Ok....I don't follow the technical specs of Dodge nor do I care to. I haven't read up on any NV4500 Dodge swaps to an AMC engine either. Thats why I asked. Judging by your reply I am under the assumption a bellhousing or bell adapter as well. I'll have to read up on it more. Thanks for the clarification though
Sorry, was still waking up when I wrote that. Image
While jeep did borrow/steal components from Ford and Chevy quite regularly, the only thing I can recall that was a Chrysler/dodge shared component was the 727 auto and some others.
AMC has its own bellhousing pattern. Where GM had a Chevy and BOPC (Buick,olds, Pontiac, and caddy) patterns and Ford had their own thing, dodge has rarely related to jeep even during the Chrysler years. Eg: an AMC 360 is very different from a dodge 360. This, the bellhousing pattern is very different.

Fast Eddie
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Post by Fast Eddie »

Phils67 wrote:
Fast Eddie wrote:Interesting post! The PO converted my J20 to a NV4500 and used the stock AMC manual linkage. Works great, very light pedal and no issues having to find a mounting a slave M/C either!! He got all the adapters from ADVANCED and it is a great package IMO. Just another conversion option!
BTW this 4500 trans came out of a Dodge truck.....
Since it comes out of a Dodge wouldnt it have an AMC bellhousing? What was needed from AA? Transfer adapter?
Phils67,
NO bellhousing is stock AMC, the adapter is from rear of bell to the NV4500 trans mounting. I believe ADVANCED still has the parts to do the swap and to add the Dana 300 T/C.
1979 J20, 360 w/NV4500/D300 Twin Stick/3.73 SOLD
1978 Cherokee Chief W/T Levi interior, 360 Q/T. SCRAPPED
1970 Gladiator J4800 Camper Special, Buick 350, 4spd. SOLD
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Phils67
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Post by Phils67 »

You sure there is no bellhousing out there?
I just googled it and found a bunch like this one. Https://www.polyperformance.com/advance ... lQQAvD_BwE
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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Topic author
derf
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Post by derf »

Phils67 wrote:You sure there is no bellhousing out there?
I just googled it and found a bunch like this one. Https://www.polyperformance.com/advance ... lQQAvD_BwE
The aftermarket has supplied bellhousings, sure. Advance Adapters and Novak are the two main suppliers for AMC engine to any non-factory-stock transmission bellhousings/adapters.

There is no factory stock bellhousing for an NV4500 to an AMC engine. If you're trying to use an NV4500 behind an AMC, it requires an aftermarket piece. No factory stock piece will work.

fsj454
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Post by fsj454 »

nv4500 92-95 nv4500 96 - on .. Two different transmissions . You must now year of TRANSMISION so you can buy the right parts ....Dodge has bigger clutch spline. there will be a code on top next to shift tower plastic file sticker with big letters that will be the year code and company that used nv4500..PS NEXT TIME ALLISON...
-
:fsj:454.nv4500.205.twin stick.hydo boost. hydrolic clutch.dana 60s.soa.37s 17inch.tration bar.warn 1200. 4 wheel disc.aero29 gallon .conferr roof rack.spal pulse width modulation.spal duel fans.painless battery isolator.duel batterys.factory cb. headers 2 1/2 duels.4.56 Detroit locker.alloy 35 spline axles.stainless brake lines .holley 770.edelbrock.fuel.water.intake.H4s.head light relays.racho 9000 shocks.rock ram.steering box brace.j20 steering box.msd8265 probillet distributor.msd super conductor wires.
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tedlovesjeeps71
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

derf wrote:
Phils67 wrote:You sure there is no bellhousing out there?
I just googled it and found a bunch like this one. Https://www.polyperformance.com/advance ... lQQAvD_BwE
The aftermarket has supplied bellhousings, sure. Advance Adapters and Novak are the two main suppliers for AMC engine to any non-factory-stock transmission bellhousings/adapters.

There is no factory stock bellhousing for an NV4500 to an AMC engine. If you're trying to use an NV4500 behind an AMC, it requires an aftermarket piece. No factory stock piece will work.
Or a factory AMC bellhousing and adapter plate. Image

Image
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