Herculiner/Recarpet Question

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Santeh
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Herculiner/Recarpet Question

Post by Santeh »

Hello!

I still have a ways to go on my 1978 Cherokee but I am nearing the point where I can think of adding the needed carpeting as my Jeep did not come with any.

I am in Central Florida near the coast and am planning on using my Cherokee for weekend excursions (such as to the market or the beach or Universal Studios) as well as hauling and potential bugging out from a hurricane to family in North Georgia. As I plan on using my Jeep for various activities, I had thought of taking out the back seat (keeping the driver’s and passenger’s) and only recarpeting the front under the seats. To the passenger and cargo areas I thought about adding Herculiner for protection, looks, and heat/sound deadening (I would also add the Herculiner under the carpeting in the front). Has anyone ever done this? If so, what did you think of the results?

Thank you!
1978 Jeep Cherokee S; 5.9L/360 V8 automatic/FiTech fuel injection and Davis Unified Distributor systems.
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dodgerammit
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Re: Herculiner/Recarpet Question

Post by dodgerammit »

I know herculiner is a big name, but these guys have had my attention for a while: https://www.durabakcompany.com/ Lots of colors, smooth and textured finishes, and UV protection available if desired. :-bd
84 Grand Waggy-Radio Flyer (Garnet Red/3M Ebony Metallic woodgrain, with honey interior) AMC 360 :cry: 2004 4.8LS/Advance Adapter/727/242 D44/AMC20 Serehill tailgate and headlight harnesses :fsj: Ongoing thread-viewtopic.php?t=11897

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Santeh
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Re: Herculiner/Recarpet Question

Post by Santeh »

dodgerammit wrote:I know herculiner is a big name, but these guys have had my attention for a while: https://www.durabakcompany.com/ Lots of colors, smooth and textured finishes, and UV protection available if desired. :-bd
Nice! Thank you! I will check it out and add it to my research (looking at Herculiner, Raptor, Al's, etc).

Ta!
1978 Jeep Cherokee S; 5.9L/360 V8 automatic/FiTech fuel injection and Davis Unified Distributor systems.
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Mustang Shooter
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Re: Herculiner/Recarpet Question

Post by Mustang Shooter »

I shot a liner on the entire floor and tailgate of our 84.
What you have to remember, the urethane liners are designed to cover imperfections and protect the surface that it is applied to. If you prepare your floor correctly, it will prevent any moisture from becoming trapped against the floor and causing rust. Any rust that is already present needs to be removed & treated before the liner is applied.
You may find that you will still want a padding overlay to help with the radient heat and sound suppression since the liners are not specifically designed for that.
Insulation also helps with your interior air temps while running air conditioning. The better it's insulated, the cooler your interior.
I will eventually use a jute pad and rubber floor mat for the passenger area and rubber stall matting in the cargo area.
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Phils67
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Re: Herculiner/Recarpet Question

Post by Phils67 »

dodgerammit wrote:I know herculiner is a big name, but these guys have had my attention for a while: https://www.durabakcompany.com/ Lots of colors, smooth and textured finishes, and UV protection available if desired. :-bd
I did my cab floor with Herculiner. It peeled off like paper. Maybe i didnt prep it good enough but im not happy with it. After a few years the Herculiner is partially worn off in the bed as well. A friend of mine did his entire vehicle with durabak about 4 years ago and it still looks good to this day. That stuff is like iron. Just my 2 cents
Last edited by Phils67 on Mon May 28, 2018 4:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Herculiner/Recarpet Question

Post by Adventure_Wagon88 »

As with any paint, prep is absolutely key. I did Herculiner in an XJ I had and ran it for about 4 years with removable carpets. It held up extremely well, I prepped meticulously for it though. In my FSJ I did Magnet Paints Chassis Saver on the floor, which I prepped very well, then I am going to roll on Herculiner. All but the cargo area will be carpeted. It does very little to keep heat and noise at bay, but prepped properly it will hold up just fine. Peeling is a definite sign it was not prepped or applied right. I may do the exterior (not the roof) of mine with Monstaliner as it is similar to the Durabak--color options and UV resistant. I would never use Herculiner on the exterior, it's too rough and not very UV resistant.

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Re: Herculiner/Recarpet Question

Post by Santeh »

Thank you, everyone, for the thoughts!

I am leaning towards either Raptor or Durabak at this point yet I am focusing on the interior as I plan on repainting and/or clearcoating the exterior. Specifically, I was just going to carpet the passenger area after applying the liner to the interior cab including the interior of the rear (cargo) door.

In regards to prep, I have never attempted anything like this thus I watched some YouTube videos and read what others have done and seemed as direct as roughing up the interior cab floor with a pad (I don’t recall the grit offhand) or sander, making sure to get up any rusty areas while making the floor look dull (it already does though). Is there anything additional before moving to the liner chemicals after roughing/sanding the interior?

Thanks all!
1978 Jeep Cherokee S; 5.9L/360 V8 automatic/FiTech fuel injection and Davis Unified Distributor systems.

SJTD
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Re: Herculiner/Recarpet Question

Post by SJTD »

Yep, it needs to be treated the same as paint if you want it to stick.

I would use some nasty water based cleaner like TSP first then do the roughing up. Then clean it again.

Then do the final wipe with a paint prep and wipes designed for the job. Any other solvent and rags may have minute amounts of contaminants that won't help adhesion.

Proper use is to spray it on, let it sit a bit and wipe it off. Then do another area a new wipe. Don't keep rubbing until it's dry. The idea is the cleaner floats the contaminants off and the rag removes them.

I used Grizzly Grip, I think, on my CJ about fifteen years ago. Hasn't peeled.

I got the stuff with the rubber granules which makes it too rough for my liking. I used smooth Durabak in my Wag. It hasn't been out of the garage since so I can't say anything about its longevity but I prefer its texture.
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HowardT64
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Re: Herculiner/Recarpet Question

Post by HowardT64 »

I have thought of doing this...long ways off though...
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Santeh
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Re: Herculiner/Recarpet Question

Post by Santeh »

SJTD wrote:Yep, it needs to be treated the same as paint if you want it to stick.

I would use some nasty water based cleaner like TSP first then do the roughing up. Then clean it again.

Then do the final wipe with a paint prep and wipes designed for the job. Any other solvent and rags may have minute amounts of contaminants that won't help adhesion.

Proper use is to spray it on, let it sit a bit and wipe it off. Then do another area a new wipe. Don't keep rubbing until it's dry. The idea is the cleaner floats the contaminants off and the rag removes them.

I used Grizzly Grip, I think, on my CJ about fifteen years ago. Hasn't peeled.

I got the stuff with the rubber granules which makes it too rough for my liking. I used smooth Durabak in my Wag. It hasn't been out of the garage since so I can't say anything about its longevity but I prefer its texture.
Thank you for the information and tips! Much obliged!

I am leaning towards either the Raptor or the Durabak and will use this with a sprayer to apply the liner. After that I plan on carpeting the passenger area (not cargo) black and then adding some black Corbeau Baja RS seats. I am still months away from finishing but I am looking forward to it.

Thanks again!
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Re: Herculiner/Recarpet Question

Post by SJTD »

I used raptor on my rockers, door jambs and interior pillars. I don't like it. Looks fine but as far as I can tell it's thick paint. Not resilient or rubbery at all. I'd bet money it's urethane paint with a filler like chalk.

I'm not saying it's bad, just not what I expected or wanted.

I used the stuff meant to be tinted. Had a paint shop mix up the same tint as my body color. Didn't look right because the Raptor was kinda milky-transluscent. Then tried white tint also and it looked ok. I think the tint he mixed for me was meant to be used with white paint. I don't know if this has anything to do with the cured hardness.

As with the Durabak, no use yet other than sitting in the garage. Does have a few chips.

I tried spraying the Durabak. It ran badly. I can't remember for sure if I thinned it before spraying but I don't think so. When rolling it on it liked to get air bubbles that didn't always pop. Don't know if I was moving too fast or what. I was using sponge rollers.

The Raptor sprayed fine with the undercoating gun.

You probably are aware of this but the Raptor uses the same hardener as urethane paints an should be treated with the same caution. A full body suit and least a good, new carbon mask and goggles if not supplied air. Read up on cyanoacrylates.
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Re: Herculiner/Recarpet Question

Post by Santeh »

SJTD wrote:I used raptor on my rockers, door jambs and interior pillars. I don't like it. Looks fine but as far as I can tell it's thick paint. Not resilient or rubbery at all. I'd bet money it's urethane paint with a filler like chalk.

I'm not saying it's bad, just not what I expected or wanted.

I used the stuff meant to be tinted. Had a paint shop mix up the same tint as my body color. Didn't look right because the Raptor was kinda milky-transluscent. Then tried white tint also and it looked ok. I think the tint he mixed for me was meant to be used with white paint. I don't know if this has anything to do with the cured hardness.

As with the Durabak, no use yet other than sitting in the garage. Does have a few chips.

I tried spraying the Durabak. It ran badly. I can't remember for sure if I thinned it before spraying but I don't think so. When rolling it on it liked to get air bubbles that didn't always pop. Don't know if I was moving too fast or what. I was using sponge rollers.

The Raptor sprayed fine with the undercoating gun.

You probably are aware of this but the Raptor uses the same hardener as urethane paints an should be treated with the same caution. A full body suit and least a good, new carbon mask and goggles if not supplied air. Read up on cyanoacrylates.
Thank you for the experiential notes and tips! I am a bit surprised and a little concerned to learn that the Durabak has already chipped even before use. Not a good sign, in my opinion. I would be happier, then, with a slight mismatch in color for the Raptor and have a usable liner. However, if the Raptor is not durable then that sort of defeats the purpose. Do you have any experience with the Herculiner?

As for cyanoacrylate, it is indeed an interesting compound (http://us.liquiband.com/media/43652/cya ... e_msds.pdf). I have been thinking of just saving up the money and having a professional apply the liner so that it is done right and safely as I am sure they have the proper PSE and disposal systems. There are a few companies in Central Florida that are within a day's drive that I can use:

https://www.armoredlinertampa.com/spray-in-bed-liners

http://tampalinex.com/line-x-bedliner/ and http://www.truck-fx.com/ in Orlando

The first company also does Jeep work and interiors (at least of cargo vans) so I would hope that the interior of a SJ Cherokee would not be an issue for them. As for the second set of companies, I am not familiar with Line-X so I would have to read up on it. I would also think that it is not inexpensive to have a professional apply the liner, which is why I was thinking of doing it myself but I can see it going south on me and my non-existent skills.

Thanks again!
Last edited by Santeh on Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Herculiner/Recarpet Question

Post by SJTD »

Yeah, I'd read the raves about Raptor and was surprised with the results. I'm not saying the Durabak wouldn't have been damaged by the hits the Raptor took. I used it on the floor so it really isn't exposed to the hits the Raptor gets on the exposed edges. I think it would do better but I can't say for sure.

I have professionally applied Rino in my '98 Dodge. Had it done right after I bought the truck. I like it because it's thick and pretty resilient. It chalked/faded pretty quick and I think I payed for the UV protection. It peeled where it got dinged by a bike peg on the wheel well but it didn't look like they scuffed the paint properly, maybe not at all. So as with anything it comes down to proper prep and paying for a job doesn't guarantee it's done right. Some day I'll take it and see if they'll honor the warranty. Maybe I'll grab that bit with pliers and start peeling in front of the guy.

Bunch of trucks where I worked had Line-X. It's tough but not very rubbery. More like plastic so you don't get the slip resistance of Rino.

Never seen Herculiner.

If you aren't in a hurry most of these companies will send you samples.

The moisture cured urethanes like Durabak and Herculiner are pretty benign. Just the solvent fumes to deal with; prolly no worse than spray paint. The one thing that'a kinda misleading in their ads is they say you save money with them. Yes and no. I think I paid $400 for my Dodge short bed. It's pretty thick especially on the floor. I think any of the others would have cost just as much for the same thickness.
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Santeh
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Re: Herculiner/Recarpet Question

Post by Santeh »

SJTD wrote:Yeah, I'd read the raves about Raptor and was surprised with the results. I'm not saying the Durabak wouldn't have been damaged by the hits the Raptor took. I used it on the floor so it really isn't exposed to the hits the Raptor gets on the exposed edges. I think it would do better but I can't say for sure.

I have professionally applied Rino in my '98 Dodge. Had it done right after I bought the truck. I like it because it's thick and pretty resilient. It chalked/faded pretty quick and I think I payed for the UV protection. It peeled where it got dinged by a bike peg on the wheel well but it didn't look like they scuffed the paint properly, maybe not at all. So as with anything it comes down to proper prep and paying for a job doesn't guarantee it's done right. Some day I'll take it and see if they'll honor the warranty. Maybe I'll grab that bit with pliers and start peeling in front of the guy.

Bunch of trucks where I worked had Line-X. It's tough but not very rubbery. More like plastic so you don't get the slip resistance of Rino.

Never seen Herculiner.

If you aren't in a hurry most of these companies will send you samples.

The moisture cured urethanes like Durabak and Herculiner are pretty benign. Just the solvent fumes to deal with; prolly no worse than spray paint. The one thing that'a kinda misleading in their ads is they say you save money with them. Yes and no. I think I paid $400 for my Dodge short bed. It's pretty thick especially on the floor. I think any of the others would have cost just as much for the same thickness.
Hmmm. If the LineX is just going to be on the interior of the SJ Cherokee, and I plan on carpeting the passenger area thus only leaving the cargo floor and door exposed with the liner, the loss of traction should not be such an issue. Yet if Durabak and Herculiner are more-or-less benign I might consider it if I really am just lightly sanding the interior and cleaning before applying the liner, which should not be too bad for a newbie to try.

I am still most likely a month or two out before I can try thus I can continue to read and debate between Rhino Liner, Line X, and Herculiner. I do like that the Rhino liner is thicker than Line X thus I have read that this helps with sound deadening (please see: https://www.bestdiybedliner.com/rhino-liner-vs-line-x/) but I have read that people love Line X (https://www.f150online.com/forums/truck ... aware.html ; an old thread thus hopefully still accurate).
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Re: Herculiner/Recarpet Question

Post by SJTD »

In the back of a Wag the less grippiness of Line-X wouldn't bother me like it might in a truck. It does seem to hold up better but I'm was comparing recent Line-X to 15 year old Rhino at the time and maybe the Rhino has improved. But I think I would go with Line-X if I was paying for it today.

From what I've see Line-X looks better but that might be due to the skill of the installer.

Thickness is just a matter of cost. They'll put it on as thick as you want to pay for or you can buy as many cans of the other stuff as you can afford.

That link had interesting comments by the Line-X Rep. If what he says is true about Line-X paying for warranty work as opposed to it being on the shop's dime with Rhino I don't have much hope of getting mine fixed.

Good advice about going and checking out the shop's work in person.
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Re: Herculiner/Recarpet Question

Post by Santeh »

SJTD wrote:In the back of a Wag the less grippiness of Line-X wouldn't bother me like it might in a truck. It does seem to hold up better but I'm was comparing recent Line-X to 15 year old Rhino at the time and maybe the Rhino has improved. But I think I would go with Line-X if I was paying for it today.

From what I've see Line-X looks better but that might be due to the skill of the installer.

Thickness is just a matter of cost. They'll put it on as thick as you want to pay for or you can buy as many cans of the other stuff as you can afford.

That link had interesting comments by the Line-X Rep. If what he says is true about Line-X paying for warranty work as opposed to it being on the shop's dime with Rhino I don't have much hope of getting mine fixed.

Good advice about going and checking out the shop's work in person.
Yep, I am definitely leaning towards Line X and just have to decide if I am brave enough to noobie it myself. Ahhh! :D
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Re: Herculiner/Recarpet Question

Post by SJTD »

Line-X has do-it-yourself stuff?

I've seen Rhino stuff on Amazon, never see Line-X.
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Re: Herculiner/Recarpet Question

Post by tgreese »

One thing about the bed liner is it's uncomfortably abrasive for bare feet... or so I've been told. It's no fun to kick the floorboard and bloody the side of your foot. I would also expect not much in the way of sound deadening/heat insulation from bed liner. One thing I really liked about my first two CJs was the indoor-outdoor carpet kit. I put two layers of jute padding under where I could, and it made a tremendous difference in comfort and noise. And it felt really nice on bare feet or with sandals. Bed liner is very abrasion and impact resistant, but that's typically not a problem inside the cabin. And the stuff is nearly impossible to remove, if you decide you don't like it. I can understand bed liner on the outside of the body (either on the whole outside - ugh - or on the underside of the floors), but IMO it's not going to be any more water or weather resistant on the inside than one of the many MCU coatings like POR-15, Hirsch, Aluthane (my favorite), Rust Bullet, etc. Look at the water resistance of Aluthane - http://www.epoxyproducts.com/aluthane.html - This stuff is great. I've gone through maybe a half-dozen quarts of it using it for everything. MCU or 2K epoxy are both super-tough, easy to apply, and thin and smooth, like paint. Another issue - sorry for piling on - the texture of bed liner is hard to keep clean. The texture tends to look dirty, even when you scrub it.
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Re: Herculiner/Recarpet Question

Post by SJTD »

Especially when the UV gets to it.
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Re: Herculiner/Recarpet Question

Post by Santeh »

SJTD wrote:Line-X has do-it-yourself stuff?

I've seen Rhino stuff on Amazon, never see Line-X.
I lumped it in with the Rhino and Herculiner, but if it is not do-it-yourserlf then that solves whether or not to take the Jeep to a company! :)

tgreese wrote:One thing about the bed liner is it's uncomfortably abrasive for bare feet... or so I've been told. It's no fun to kick the floorboard and bloody the side of your foot. I would also expect not much in the way of sound deadening/heat insulation from bed liner. One thing I really liked about my first two CJs was the indoor-outdoor carpet kit. I put two layers of jute padding under where I could, and it made a tremendous difference in comfort and noise. And it felt really nice on bare feet or with sandals. Bed liner is very abrasion and impact resistant, but that's typically not a problem inside the cabin. And the stuff is nearly impossible to remove, if you decide you don't like it. I can understand bed liner on the outside of the body (either on the whole outside - ugh - or on the underside of the floors), but IMO it's not going to be any more water or weather resistant on the inside than one of the many MCU coatings like POR-15, Hirsch, Aluthane (my favorite), Rust Bullet, etc. Look at the water resistance of Aluthane - http://www.epoxyproducts.com/aluthane.html - This stuff is great. I've gone through maybe a half-dozen quarts of it using it for everything. MCU or 2K epoxy are both super-tough, easy to apply, and thin and smooth, like paint. Another issue - sorry for piling on - the texture of bed liner is hard to keep clean. The texture tends to look dirty, even when you scrub it.

I am still planning on carpeting the passenger area, thus only leaving the cargo area and back door with exposed liner. I had read from others that the liner did help with sound deadening as it can have a thick application if desired, but it really was more to help protect the floring as much as possible (especially in the cargo area). I will take a look at the Aluthane as I am not familiar with it. Thanks!
Last edited by Santeh on Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1978 Jeep Cherokee S; 5.9L/360 V8 automatic/FiTech fuel injection and Davis Unified Distributor systems.
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