Relays on power door locks-Fully operational death star!

[dodgerammit]

After tearing into the doors today to lube up the window tracks and see if I can get the actuators to fully engage/disengage the locks, I've been thinking about relays.

The Driver's front actuator will engage and disengage the door lock, however, the other 3 door actuators fail to fully pop the locks. I've lubed the linkages to no avail. Thinking a power drop may be the culprit.

I'm going to rig up a relay test module based off of the 12 volt and see if my theory will work: https://www.the12volt.com/relays/relaydiagram49.html


If so, I plan on adding a remote (similar to serehill's rear window option) to have a lock/unlock key fob feature to the Waggy.

Does this look correct as to what would need to be done to work?

[Rinkle_Stinkle]

following as i'm about to possibly do the same for my power windows and possibly even door locks.

[dodgerammit]

Success! I isolated the passenger door lock and control to test out the basic system and it works. Next, I'm going to pull the remote feature from the tailgate and see if it also works. Logically, it should. Then, I'm going to build the complete harness for the door locks. Then, like Rinkle stated, I'll probably move to the windows. The only issue would be space. I don't want to mount the relays inside the door. I want them under the dash. The window setup would require 8 relays for the entire system. The power locks only require 2.

[dodgerammit]

A side note. I don't know if it makes any difference or not, but I cut the ground wires from the lock switch. Mine were pink and gray. The only input needed on this setup is switched control voltage. So, the big red wire going to switch is power. The brown and blue wires are the directional power coming from switch. I'll update the schematics to more appropriate colors to reflect the wire colors I have in my 84.

[dodgerammit]

Updated with proper colors (84 model year Grand Wagoneer)

[Rinkle_Stinkle]

Updated with proper colors (84 model year Grand Wagoneer)

you just saved me so much time! I really appreciate you doing this!

[dodgerammit]

I haven't built or installed the harness yet, but the mini setup worked fine for the one door. I see no reason it won't work when fully built.

That actuator seemed like it was gonna throw the lock knob through the top or bottom of the Jeep!

Before, the actuator sounded weak and wouldn't move the lock mechanism enough to engage/disengage.

Amazing what happens when you allow the full current to bypass the switch.

Gonna build a small panel to mount everything to behind the passenger side of the dash. Also need to pick up a terminal block for easy modification of system.

I plan on doing a writeup within the next couple of weeks showing how I install mine.

[dodgerammit]

This is the final draft I created for myself to do the bulk of the wiring.

I plan on tapping into the red wire for the lock switch feed along the firewall to supply the power for the system.

Also plan on using the existing blue and brown wiring in the same feed to supply the power from the new system to the actuators.

I should only need to run new wiring for the switch inputs.

[dodgerammit]

Since I used the passenger front door as my guinea pig, I needed to address the cut wiring inside it first.
I need to drive Radio Flyer this weekend to do some woodworking, so I want to be able to button this door back up and forget it for a bit.

First up, I needed to figure out where I want to mount the relays. Since I will be modding the window circuits in the future, I wanted enough space to mount all of the relays in one area. I didn't want to mount the relays inside the door. Too much water infiltration and chance of damage from the power window operation.

So, I decided I would mount them high up under the passenger side of the dash. My A/C unit is out at the moment, so perfect time to do this.

Here is the plate I made to mount the system:



It is mounted on two studs protruding through the firewall. I think these are used to mount the heater core box? Anyhoo, they worked.

Next, I wanted to tie the existing feed and the actuator back together. Remember, I'm using the existing wires from the Jeep as power to actuator feed.
Since I had cut the wires, they needed to be reconnected.

For your purposes, DO NOT CUT THESE WIRES! I had to test the system, so I had to cut them. Save yourself a step. Leave the wires going to the actuator intact.

These will be a set of 2 wires going to the rear of the door. Mine are brown and blue colored. My Waggy is an 84. Your may have different colors.



If you are doing this, you will only need to cut the 2nd set that go vertically up to the switch. They will be as a group of 4 wires from the same side of the orange connector. Mine were blue and brown (switch power), and gray and pink. In hindsight, I should have left more of the small gauge gray and pink exposed, cutting those wires higher up, away from the orange connector.





Since I didn't do this, I needed to run a new switch feed to the door. d'OH!

The only way to do this is to fight to push 2 new wires through that crusty and stiff rubber grommet in the a piller way up under the dash!



.....or is it?

Nope. I cut the ground feed going from the switch to the firewall harness on the OTHER side if that little orange connector!



Not using it anyway since the relays do the job of switching the voltage/ground polarity now.

In my K.I.S.S. (Keep it simple stupid) method, I chose the 12 gauge blue wire to mate with.... the blue wire to the switch.
The large pink wire will go to the brown from the switch. Now I don't have to feed more wires through that grommet....



And this is where I stopped. the rain set in, followed quickly by gusty winds.
Since I'm doing this under a carport, I waved the white flag for the day. Will heat the shrink connectors and reattach the door panel tomorrow.

More to come next week!

Cheers!

[dodgerammit]

Okay, prepped the underdash wiring for the final install.

Here we have the wires from the passenger door. 12 ga pink/blue for switch.

This also continues across firewall to driver's side switch, so no need to tear into the driver's door to do anything for the rest of the power door lock relay installation. Just make your cut leaving enough wire to hook the passenger side up. The driver's side will need to be lengthened. More on that in a bit.

The small blue/brown wires go to the actuator. These wires go to the driver's side as well. Cut enough to hook up to the relay system. Worry about the driver's side in a bit.



Next up, is the feed that disappears under the carpet for the passenger rear door. Cut the brown and blue wires with enough slack to install to the relay addition. There will be another strand of blue and brown going to the driver's side. Don't worry about it.



Okay, remember where I said the pink and blue driver's switch feed would need to be lengthened?

Yeah, if you look at the original wiring diagram, the driver's switch sends signal out the large blue and pink wires to the passenger switch.
From there, It goes to the orange connector in the passenger door and splits into two smaller (14 gauge) blue and brown feeds.
One feeds the passenger front actuator, then the other goes back out, under the dash, where it splits to the driver's front, driver's rear, and passenger rear actuator. Head spinning yet?
And we wonder why this stuff gives problems?

It has to pass through 2 switches to actuate the locks from the driver's side control!

Now, in my previous post I mentioned the K.I.S.S. connection I made where blue went to blue and pink to brown...

Yeah, actually, it should be pink to blue, then blue to brown. That is the way it comes from the driver's switch (That I hadn't carefully checked till today).

No worries.Since I had to lengthen it....
...I fixed it:




Next, you need to have an actuator feed to the driver's side. Choose one set of blue and brown wires (tape the other set up and stuff 'em back into the harness) You won't need them...

You'll probably have to lengthen them as I did to ensure they will reach the relay panel:


Now,I just have to get that terminal block.

[Rinkle_Stinkle]

I love pictures! that will make things so much easier if I need to go through all this! I really appreciate you taking the time to talk us through this.

[dodgerammit]

Well, decent victory. Small aggravation. Connected everything yesterday. Tried the passenger switch. Nothing. Thought I had screwed something up.

Went back to the schematics. Nope. Looked correct. For some reason I was at the driver's door and decided to give it a shot. Pop! Pop!

Well, that switch works.

For 3 of 4 locks. The passenger rear door doesn't even budge.

Trying to wrap my head around what is wrong with the passenger switch. During testing, it worked beautifully. Now, nothing.

Getting voltage to the switch. But the brown and blue terminals coming from switch aren't giving the same reading when pushing switch.
Jumping the terminals don't work either. argh!

Friggin cold @$$ north wind isn't helping either. I hate winter. I live in the south. Give me warmth!

I am getting voltage to rear actuator connector, so actuator may be dead.

3 out of 4 that weren't functioning correctly isn't bad. Just gotta deal with this illogical issue concerning the passenger switch.....

[dodgerammit]

Okay, remember how I stated these systems all are reverse polarity? Meaning current flows either way and the neutral leg finds a ground path?

Annnnndddd, remember how I said I cut the ground wires from the passenger switch since I no longer needed them?



Guess what this genius didn't do on the driver's switch?

SNIP! SNIP!



Both switches work now!

If you aren't doing the power window mod at this time, only cut these two grounds. You will still have 2 more grounds you leave intact on the window side of the master switch (two black wires toward front of door).

Still don't have any life from passenger rear actuator. May be hunting one up...

Here is the relay board during pre install prep:



And here it is in position and wired (bad shakey image):

[dodgerammit]

On the subject of actuators (in case you also have a dead one. AMC, Jeep, and GM used the same part in millions of vehicles!

Here is a cross reference of the models that have the exact same unit:

1985-1988 American Motors Eagle
1985-1996 Buick Century
1985-1990 Buick Electra, Lesabre
1988-1991 Buick Reatta
1985-1992 Buick Regal
1985-1991 Buick Riviera, Skylark
1985-1989 Buick Skyhawk
1986-1987 Buick Somerset
1985 Buick Somerset Legal
1985-1988 Cadillac Cimarron
1985-1990 Cadillac DeVille
1985-1991 Cadillac Eldorado, Seville
1999-2000 Cadillac Escalade
1985-1989 Cadillac Fleetwood
1985-2005 Chevrolet Astro
1987-1993 Chevrolet Beretta, Corsica
1985-1994 Chevrolet Blazer, S10 Blazer
1985-1986 Chevrolet K5 Blazer, C10, C20, C30, K10, K20, K30
1985-1986 Chevrolet C10, C20, K10, K20 Suburban
1988-1999 Chevrolet C1500, K1500
1992-1999 Chevrolet C1500, C2500, K1500, K2500 Suburban
1988-2000 Chevrolet C2500, C3500, K2500, K3500
1991-2002 Chevrolet C3500HD
1985-1992 Chevrolet Camaro
1985-1990 Chevrolet Caprice, Cavalier, Celebrity
1985 Chevrolet Citation II, Impala
1985-1987 Chevrolet El Camino
1985-1995 Chevrolet G10, G20
1985-1996 Chevrolet G30
1990-1993 Chevrolet Lumina APV
1985-1988 Chevrolet Monte Carlo
1993-1996 Chevrolet P30
1987 Chevrolet R10, V10, V20
1989-1991 Chevrolet R1500, R2500, V1500, V2500 Suburban
1987-1988 Chevrolet R20, R30, V30
1987-1988 Chevrolet R10, R20, V10, V20 Suburban
1989 Chevrolet R2500, V3500
1989-1991 Chevrolet R3500
1985-1993 Chevrolet S10
1997-1999 Chevrolet Tahoe
1985-1999 GMC C1500, K1500
1985-1999 GMC C1500, C2500, K1500 Suburban
1985-2000 GMC C2500, C3500, K2500
1991-2002 GMC C3500 HD
1985-1987 GMC Caballero
1985-1995 GMC G1500, G2500
1985-1996 GMC G3500
1985-1994 GMC Jimmy
1986-1999 GMC K2500 Suburban
1986-2000 GMC K3500
1993-1996 GMC P3500
1987 GMC R1500, V1500, V2500
1987-1991 GMC R1500, R2500, V1500, V2500 Suburban
1987-1989 GMC R2500
1987-1991 GMC R3500, V3500
1986-1990 GMC S15
1986-1991 GMC S15 Jimmy
1986-2005 GMC Safari
1991-1993 GMC Sonoma
1991 GMC Syclone
1992-1993 GMC Typhoon
1992-1999 GMC Yukon
1986-1996 Jeep Cherokee
1986-1992 Jeep Comanche
1986-1990 Jeep Wagoneer, Grand Wagoneer
1986-1988 Jeep J10, J20
1986-1990 Oldsmobile 98, Custom Cruiser, Delta 88
1991-1994 Oldsmobile Bravada
1986-1987 Oldsmobile Calais
1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass
1988-1991 Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais
1986-1996 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
1986-1992 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
1987-1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Cruiser
1986-1988 Oldsmobile Firenza
1990-1993 Oldsmobile Silhouette
1986-1991 Oldsmobile Toronado, Grand Am
1986-1991 Pontiac 6000
1986-1989 Pontiac Bonneville
1986-1988 Pontiac Fiero
1986-1992 Pontiac Firebird, Grand Prix
1986 Pontiac Parisienne
1987-1989 Pontiac Safari
1986-1990 Pontiac Sunbird
1990-1993 Pontiac Trans Sport

[geod998]

Great stuff!!! I will be doing this thanks to you working out the kinks for me. Ya think theres any advantage to doing this on the seats? Any good places to buy relays in bulk? (only half joking)

[dodgerammit]

Great stuff!!! I will be doing this thanks to you working out the kinks for me. Ya think theres any advantage to doing this on the seats? Any good places to buy relays in bulk? (only half joking)

I bought my bulk relays from ebay. Dell city is another good place.
As far as the seats, I'd say there would be an advantage, but space would be an issue.
If you relayed each direction, there's be 6 relays for each seat.
Given I don't adjust with the seats that much, I'm gonna try cleaning up and greasing everything first.

That didn't work with the locks or the windows, though.

[Snot536]

Thanks for taking the time to figure it out for the rest of us. NOW for the big question....Are you going to make these to sell to guys like me who would rather buy them or for guys who are electrically challenged? If so, How long till the door lock/window harness will be ready. Good luck

[dodgerammit]

Not going to make them. Otherwise I would have never posted the schematics to them.

On top of that, there are multiple ways to do the harness. You can mount the relays in the door, or under the dash (or elsewhere).

Add to that, I designed it to utilize what was already there by just cutting/splicing into the factory harness.

These are no means plug and play like serehill did with his stuff.

The switches have to be disassembled and the grounds removed before they will work with relays.

If you decide to build this and have questions, just post them here. There are plenty of helpful people besides myself who can probably guide you through it.

[candymancan]

Guys if you dont wanna do the relay thing..

Open the doors find the round spring that holds the bars for the locks that move uo and down.. Get a pair of needle nose pliers.. grab one loop of the two loop spring and pull it out hard until it bends into an oval shape.

Lube up everything that moves with lithium grease.. And walla... I figured this out myself.. when you bend thr double looped spring to an oval it releases the amount of tension the spring has.. Which in turn will allow the underpowered actuators to push the locks up.. If you bend it too much to where it doesnt hold the locks up just bend em bavk slightly.

Seriously it took me more time to take the door panels off and reseal the weather plastic then to do this. And all my locks have worked for like 8 months now.

Sorry dodgerdamnit to crap on ur thread.. But i noticed some ppl dont seem to wanna do the relays mod.. This is an easier way to fix it. I bought a 15$ keyless kit on amazon.. ripped out the old one on the overhead console ( since ny keyless fobs were missing ) and wired it into the existing wiring and boom.. I can lock and unlock all 4 doors with a push of a button 50-60 feet away.

Id show pics.. but i dont wanna rip open my plastic weather seals again.. they block alot of water from getting in the jeep and if it isnt sealed good it can leak inside like a bitch..

But its easy... the springs are on the lock poles in the door easy to access... needle nose plier... bend the spring from a circle to oval and boom garuntee the locks will work then

[killerinstinct]

No offense to anyone, If you have the time, relays is the way to go long term, but some of us need a short term solution that just works.

Thanks Candymancan! I will try your option, but to my understanding, is that those springs are there so the locks don't automatically fall down. Did you not have any issues with that?

Just to clarify - You are saying to bend these into an OVAL?