Electronic Carburetor injection

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Rinkle_Stinkle
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Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:22 am

Electronic Carburetor injection

Post by Rinkle_Stinkle »

Anyone seen the new K&N ECI kit? What are our thoughts on this? Says it’s multi adjustable. How much performance can you get from it? Pros? Cons?

Link:
https://www.knfilters.com/mobile/eci
Last edited by Rinkle_Stinkle on Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1988 Grand Wag
AMC 360 with 96K
Edelbrock intake manifold
260H Comp Cam
Edelbrock AVS 4brl carb
Headman headers
2" to thrush muff with 3" tip exhaust

MJMadness
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Re: Electronic Carburetor injection

Post by MJMadness »

That seems like a really expensive way to still be stuck with a carburetor and everything that's wrong with it.
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kansasboy001
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Re: Electronic Carburetor injection

Post by kansasboy001 »

Not sure how well it'd actually work considering the injector is below the throttle plates and isn't multi port. Might be good for cold weather if you could turn it off
1983 Cherokee Laredo. 360/ 727/ np228/ Junkyard 7427 TBI/ Msd ignition
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az chip
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Re: Electronic Carburetor injection

Post by az chip »

At that point you are within a few hundred for a total EFI kit.
'81 Cherokee Chief 81 WT Chief/MSD 6/Holley Sniper/ Rusty 4" Spring lift/ Bulltear oil adapter/K&P Engineering Oil Filter/ NP 208/ Serehill Light Harness/KC LED Headlights/ Evil Twin Fab Roof Rack and sliders/ Ross mirror mounts.

d4xycrq
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Location: Boyertown, PA

Re: Electronic Carburetor injection

Post by d4xycrq »

It reminds me of the fuel injection system on my '86 Camaro. It's got a V-6 - and Chevy solved the problem of initial enrichment by simply adding a 7th injector that presumably squirts just on start up.

I bet K&N sell a bunch. Question, though. Does it need anything more than a mechanical fuel pump?

And previous posters are correct....still saddled with the carb, which most people can't get their head around. And might as well spring for full on fuel injection.

Ray
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Rinkle_Stinkle
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Re: Electronic Carburetor injection

Post by Rinkle_Stinkle »

So what’s the recommended EFI kit for an 88 wag? This will be a DD but I’ll be adding some performance to it like an intake, CAM and it already has a TFI ignition upgrade.

Also how difficult is the upgrade? I have some experience but I would say im by no means able to do extremely complicated upgrades.
1988 Grand Wag
AMC 360 with 96K
Edelbrock intake manifold
260H Comp Cam
Edelbrock AVS 4brl carb
Headman headers
2" to thrush muff with 3" tip exhaust
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Topic author
Rinkle_Stinkle
Posts: 224
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:22 am

Re: Electronic Carburetor injection

Post by Rinkle_Stinkle »

Rinkle_Stinkle wrote:So what’s the recommended EFI kit for an 88 wag? This will be a DD but I’ll be adding some performance to it like an intake, CAM and it already has a TFI ignition upgrade. Of course the other upgrades will happen later when I rebuild the engine. I’m just trying to get an overall game plan on where I want to be in the next few years.

Also how difficult is the upgrade? I have some experience but I would say im by no means able to do extremely complicated upgrades.
1988 Grand Wag
AMC 360 with 96K
Edelbrock intake manifold
260H Comp Cam
Edelbrock AVS 4brl carb
Headman headers
2" to thrush muff with 3" tip exhaust
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kansasboy001
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:47 pm

Re: Electronic Carburetor injection

Post by kansasboy001 »

Rinkle_Stinkle wrote:So what’s the recommended EFI kit for an 88 wag? This will be a DD but I’ll be adding some performance to it like an intake, CAM and it already has a TFI ignition upgrade.

Also how difficult is the upgrade? I have some experience but I would say im by no means able to do extremely complicated upgrades.
Just about any will work. Howell makes a kit just for the 360. But holleys new 2bbl efi system looks good. Also if you have a lot of cash edelbrock has a multi port kit
1983 Cherokee Laredo. 360/ 727/ np228/ Junkyard 7427 TBI/ Msd ignition
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Rinkle_Stinkle
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Re: Electronic Carburetor injection

Post by Rinkle_Stinkle »

kansasboy001 wrote:
Rinkle_Stinkle wrote:So what’s the recommended EFI kit for an 88 wag? This will be a DD but I’ll be adding some performance to it like an intake, CAM and it already has a TFI ignition upgrade.

Also how difficult is the upgrade? I have some experience but I would say im by no means able to do extremely complicated upgrades.
Just about any will work. Howell makes a kit just for the 360. But holleys new 2bbl efi system looks good. Also if you have a lot of cash edelbrock has a multi port kit

To be honest I would like to stay at $1k and under. I have a lot to do on the wag including an engine in the semi near future so 2-3K upgrades may have to take a back seat for now.

I appreciate everyone's thoughts. :-bd
1988 Grand Wag
AMC 360 with 96K
Edelbrock intake manifold
260H Comp Cam
Edelbrock AVS 4brl carb
Headman headers
2" to thrush muff with 3" tip exhaust

MJMadness
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:46 pm

Re: Electronic Carburetor injection

Post by MJMadness »

d4xycrq wrote:It reminds me of the fuel injection system on my '86 Camaro. It's got a V-6 - and Chevy solved the problem of initial enrichment by simply adding a 7th injector that presumably squirts just on start up.
Toyota used a system like that too. Junk.




For under $1k you can get a basic FiTech. Or for right at $1K you can get the basic Holley Sniper setup. You'll need to spend a few more bucks on a fuel pump and intake manifold, assuming you have neither. I'd go with the Holley Sniper personally.

d4xycrq
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Location: Boyertown, PA

Re: Electronic Carburetor injection

Post by d4xycrq »

Hey, hey, hey! My 2.8L 86 Camaro starts on the button! Absolutely perfect! Can't get out of its own way, though! :lol:

>>>Toyota used a system like that too. Junk.




For under $1k you can get a basic FiTech. Or for right at $1K you can get the basic Holley Sniper setup. You'll need to spend a few more bucks on a fuel pump and intake manifold, assuming you have neither. I'd go with the Holley Sniper personally.[/quote]
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Rinkle_Stinkle
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Re: Electronic Carburetor injection

Post by Rinkle_Stinkle »

MJMadness wrote:
d4xycrq wrote: Toyota used a system like that too. Junk.




For under $1k you can get a basic FiTech. Or for right at $1K you can get the basic Holley Sniper setup. You'll need to spend a few more bucks on a fuel pump and intake manifold, assuming you have neither. I'd go with the Holley Sniper personally.
So it says a high pressure fuel pump is needed. Anyone have a link?
I’d imagine it doesn’t need to be a FiTech brand
1988 Grand Wag
AMC 360 with 96K
Edelbrock intake manifold
260H Comp Cam
Edelbrock AVS 4brl carb
Headman headers
2" to thrush muff with 3" tip exhaust
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swampedge
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Location: Melbourne,Fl.

Re: Electronic Carburetor injection

Post by swampedge »

This would work good for a vehicle that sees a lot of altitude changes as it’s driven. Heavy loads or launches at the drag strip. Everyday use? Jim


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Rinkle_Stinkle
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Re: Electronic Carburetor injection

Post by Rinkle_Stinkle »

swampedge wrote:This would work good for a vehicle that sees a lot of altitude changes as it’s driven. Heavy loads or launches at the drag strip. Everyday use? Jim


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I like the fact you can stack the plates to add 2 injectors (but that obviously doubles the price). I also like the ease of installation as well. no need to put in a high pressure fuel pump (that I'm aware of). With the O2 sensor it can detect AFR and adjust it accordingly. You can adjust the spray amount, pulse time and shape of the spray.

I get its still using a Carb, but it does appear to give those who love a carb the ability to still keep their carb and not have to worry about the headaches of cold starts without breaking the bank and causing an installation nightmare.

That being said I'm still not sure I would purchase it. I appreciate the input I received and will continue looking at more possibilities because I have lots of time before I make this mod.
1988 Grand Wag
AMC 360 with 96K
Edelbrock intake manifold
260H Comp Cam
Edelbrock AVS 4brl carb
Headman headers
2" to thrush muff with 3" tip exhaust
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Topic author
Rinkle_Stinkle
Posts: 224
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:22 am

Re: Electronic Carburetor injection

Post by Rinkle_Stinkle »

so looking at the Fitech system I'm definitely interested in that rout. it got extremely good reviews and seems pretty simple other that the fuel pump which doesn't seem too complicated in itself.

here's my question though. Do I hook up the electronic fuel pump and allow it to feed through the mechanical pump already in place? I would imagine I would disconnect the mechanical when I install the electronic and does anyone have a write up on this install?

I'm looking at the Holley Electric Fuel Pump part# 12-801-1.. good pump?
1988 Grand Wag
AMC 360 with 96K
Edelbrock intake manifold
260H Comp Cam
Edelbrock AVS 4brl carb
Headman headers
2" to thrush muff with 3" tip exhaust
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swampedge
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Re: Electronic Carburetor injection

Post by swampedge »

Do not run it through the mechanical pump it blow out the diaphragm and fill your crankcase with gas.


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swampedge
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Re: Electronic Carburetor injection

Post by swampedge »

swampedge wrote:Do not run it through the mechanical pump it will blow out the diaphragm and fill your crankcase with gas.


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MJMadness
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Re: Electronic Carburetor injection

Post by MJMadness »

Rinkle_Stinkle wrote: I'm looking at the Holley Electric Fuel Pump part# 12-801-1.. good pump?
Wrong pump.

No idea if it's good or not but it won't work for a FiTech or Sniper.

Read the manuals for whichever system you go with, but I believe they both require 55psi. You need an EFI compatible fuel pump, preferably without a regulator.

I'd retrofit an XJ pump into your tank, or run a Ford external pump if I had to (I do not like external pumps).

MJMadness
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Re: Electronic Carburetor injection

Post by MJMadness »

Rinkle_Stinkle wrote:
swampedge wrote:This would work good for a vehicle that sees a lot of altitude changes as it’s driven. Heavy loads or launches at the drag strip. Everyday use? Jim


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I like the fact you can stack the plates to add 2 injectors (but that obviously doubles the price). I also like the ease of installation as well. no need to put in a high pressure fuel pump (that I'm aware of). With the O2 sensor it can detect AFR and adjust it accordingly. You can adjust the spray amount, pulse time and shape of the spray.

I get its still using a Carb, but it does appear to give those who love a carb the ability to still keep their carb and not have to worry about the headaches of cold starts without breaking the bank and causing an installation nightmare.

That being said I'm still not sure I would purchase it. I appreciate the input I received and will continue looking at more possibilities because I have lots of time before I make this mod.
I don't see how it has any useful control of the AFR, as it can only enrich the mixture. Half of the problem with carbs is that they go rich. You're still going to get puddled fuel on cold starts, meaning as much as this thing tried the AFR is going to go all over the place. I guess you could tune the engine lean and disable the choke, but that is creating a solution for a problem at that point. With only an O2 sensor it is purely reactionary, no decent fuel control system works this way, everything has some means to anticipate via some other sensors (TPS, MAF, MAP, etc in EFI, the actual throttle linkage is used in mechanical FI and with a carb). As there is lag between the actual lean/rich condition and the O2 sensor picking it up, and then the system being able to adjust, and then that fuel to actually make its way into the combustion chamber, there will be constant fluctuation in the AFR.
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Rinkle_Stinkle
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Re: Electronic Carburetor injection

Post by Rinkle_Stinkle »

MJMadness wrote:
Rinkle_Stinkle wrote:
swampedge wrote:This would work good for a vehicle that sees a lot of altitude changes as it’s driven. Heavy loads or launches at the drag strip. Everyday use? Jim


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I like the fact you can stack the plates to add 2 injectors (but that obviously doubles the price). I also like the ease of installation as well. no need to put in a high pressure fuel pump (that I'm aware of). With the O2 sensor it can detect AFR and adjust it accordingly. You can adjust the spray amount, pulse time and shape of the spray.

I get its still using a Carb, but it does appear to give those who love a carb the ability to still keep their carb and not have to worry about the headaches of cold starts without breaking the bank and causing an installation nightmare.

That being said I'm still not sure I would purchase it. I appreciate the input I received and will continue looking at more possibilities because I have lots of time before I make this mod.
I don't see how it has any useful control of the AFR, as it can only enrich the mixture. Half of the problem with carbs is that they go rich. You're still going to get puddled fuel on cold starts, meaning as much as this thing tried the AFR is going to go all over the place. I guess you could tune the engine lean and disable the choke, but that is creating a solution for a problem at that point. With only an O2 sensor it is purely reactionary, no decent fuel control system works this way, everything has some means to anticipate via some other sensors (TPS, MAF, MAP, etc in EFI, the actual throttle linkage is used in mechanical FI and with a carb). As there is lag between the actual lean/rich condition and the O2 sensor picking it up, and then the system being able to adjust, and then that fuel to actually make its way into the combustion chamber, there will be constant fluctuation in the AFR.
fair enough... this is why I come on here because once I start to think I understand something I'm typically proven I simply don't have a clue hahahaha
1988 Grand Wag
AMC 360 with 96K
Edelbrock intake manifold
260H Comp Cam
Edelbrock AVS 4brl carb
Headman headers
2" to thrush muff with 3" tip exhaust
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