The crossed fingers 360

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tedlovesjeeps71
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The crossed fingers 360

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

Maybe this is a dumb idea but I figured I'd start a "build" thread on my spare 360. I dropped it here because it will involve me and some of my classmates taking it apart, checking it all out and hopefully putting it back together ok. Depending on what it looks like when we open it up will tell how far this thread goes. I won't have money to send it to be machined or bored out if it's needed so at best I can hope it goes together well and I can use new whatever minor stuff I can afford. I do have a new edelbrock performer and summit cam & lifters already squirrelled away. Beyond that I'll have to skrimp and save. The only downside is this is on a short (relatively speaking) timeline of 4 weeks. The motor has to be back together by then to get credit on it for the semester.
Things this will involve:
Disassemble the motor down to bare components. Measure specs and tolerances. Clean the block/heads etc as much as possible.
Hopefully do a valve job. Hopefully do the oil mod. And then, Hopefully, assemble it all correctly with all new seals/gaskets etc. I'll be taking pics as I go so if I get stuck, I'd greatly appreciate any of you motor gurus chiming in to offer some thoughts!

What it is:
As far as I can tell the motor is a late 80s ^ 360. Isn't stamped as a 5.9 so it's not from the last year's. The motor was given to my by my former storage yard friend as he was moving out. He's the same guy that fave me the Chief. This motor was supposedly running when pulled but I have no idea on mileage, condition, etc. Hence the crossed fingers.
Day 1:
Started today by heading to storage to try and load the motor from the back of my 67 commando half cab. Being that it's all dirt and sand, that was a bit of an effort. Had to use the suburban to pull the jeepster from between the two shipping containers. Then I had to find all the parts and wrestle my engine hoist out of the container. I reassembled it, hooked up a chain, had to add fluid and bleed the hydraulic ram, then got the motor lifted out of the Jeep. I then had to hook several recovery straps together and pull the commando back forward. Once that was done I was able to back the suburban towards the hoist and set the motor on the tailgate. It took a lot of struggle to get the motor pushed in enough to close the gate. My back isn't happy with the exertion but such is life.
So I rush home, change clothes, and head to school. After some tests etc we finally got out to the shop. Had help so getting it out and hung on the hoist went much easier. Unfortunately we wasted almost an hour looking for bolts to mount the engine stand bracket.
Once we got it on the stand we set to pulling stuff off. Much of it is junk, hoses cut or dry rotted, wires all worn and cracked. And some stuff just not being reused (like the smog pump).
One interesting thing was this weird thing I guess is some sort of block heater?
Image it has a male end 110 plug on it as well as some heater hose? I also saw this strange freeze plug with some kind of receptacle in it??
Image
As there are 4 of us wrenching on this it goes fairly quickly but I seem to be the one with the most experience, certainly the only Jeep motor wrench time. We do tend to stumble over each other in a search for tools more than anything... Haha.
So we get most of the misc. Stuff off the motor and can see some tales of condition. Lots of debris/rat leftovers on the intake. A peep down the thermostat housing was scary. As we get the Alternator, AC compressor, and PS pump off I noticed how rusty looking the water pump is. A brief effort trying to spin it shows its completely frozen. At this point I'm a little concerned. Decide to move to the next big unknown and drain the oil. My fear being it had been left uncovered before I got it and it was a boat anchor. Pull the drain plug and nothing but used, black oil comes out. YEA! No empty oil pan and even better, no water! Maybe there is hope.
So as we are running out of time I can't resist pulling the valve covers. After the recent efforts on my waggy Walter and seeing the horrific build up of sludge, I wasn't expecting much. For reference, here's what Walter's head looked like:
Image

And here's what crossed fingers heads look like:
ImageImage

Holy smoke!!! ImageImageImage kinda scary how clean they are.
Unfortunately that's about where we ran out of time. Cleaned up our mess and rolled it out of the way. Monday we should have the heads off and see more of what I got. Wish me luck.
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az chip
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Re: The crossed fingers 360

Post by az chip »

Cool.
'81 Cherokee Chief 81 WT Chief/MSD 6/Holley Sniper/ Rusty 4" Spring lift/ Bulltear oil adapter/K&P Engineering Oil Filter/ NP 208/ Serehill Light Harness/KC LED Headlights/ Evil Twin Fab Roof Rack and sliders/ Ross mirror mounts.
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Lumpskie
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Re: The crossed fingers 360

Post by Lumpskie »

az chip wrote:Cool.
Yes!
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will e
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Re: The crossed fingers 360

Post by will e »

Nice! I know your budget is low but getting the block and heads tanked and sonic tested will mean you are not tossing good parts into bad foundation.

Yep, that's a block heater.

I don't believe the three prong thing is in a freeze plug.
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htfiremedic
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Re: The crossed fingers 360

Post by htfiremedic »

will e wrote:Nice! I know your budget is low but getting the block and heads tanked and sonic tested will mean you are not tossing good parts into bad foundation.

Yep, that's a block heater.

I don't believe the three prong thing is in a freeze plug.
My old 360 had the same heater. Worked well!


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Tatsadasayago
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Re: The crossed fingers 360

Post by Tatsadasayago »

That's a Katz 110v freeze plug heater and a separate tank heater. This means that jeep lived in a cold place.
Your engine is quite clean and is obviously not a Pennzoil/Quaker State engine like Walter.
When engines are removed and stored outside, even under cover, they collect moisture, rat poop and dirt no matter how well they are protected. Since the valvetrain was not relaxed, you will likely find rust or corrosion in at least 4 cylinders. All is not lost as often this can be fixed with ATF and a bar hone once everything is broken free.
I've seen AMC V-8s that I would have sent to the scrapper resurrected with 5 gallons of gasoline, a ball hone, permatex gold spray, a gasket set and RTV silicone that ran for years despite everything. As long as the rings have a fairly good seal, the oiling system is working and your valves seat fairly well, that engine will live on with minimal cost on your part.
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tedlovesjeeps71
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Re: The crossed fingers 360

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

Thanks guys for all the feedback. I think for simplicity sake I'll pull the block heater stuff and put it in storage for now. Good to know what it is.
@Tad... I'm honestly amazed that Walter runs as well as he did. After 10 years sitting in a field he has become a decent driver after some simple resurrection efforts. This motor, being so much cleaner, gives me hope. I should know more Monday as to its overall condition inside.
Does anyone have a good link for doing the oiling mod? Is it something I can do myself or does it require a "kit"??


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Tatsadasayago
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Re: The crossed fingers 360

Post by Tatsadasayago »

The oiling mod requires a drillbit, tap, fittings (NPT and compression), Shop-Vac and copper line. You can go small like 1/4" or big with 1/2"...your preference.
Everything you need is available at your nearest Ace Hardware or Home Depot.
[EDIT] I've seen brake line fittings and line used for the mod as well as adding the proper sized roll-pins at the forward cam oiling journal to restrict the oil flow so the rear gets more oil. On Big and small block Mopars the trick was to weld the block-to-head oiling journals then drill a 1/32" hole through the plug to restrict oil flow which kept the cam and lifters wet.
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Cheap Hobby
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Re: The crossed fingers 360

Post by Cheap Hobby »

Our lead mechanic at the dealership rebuilt his first engine and jeep when he was 10yrs old. Old family waggy no body wanted. Gramps told him you can have it if you can make it run. As he was of small stature he pulled the front clip, and stripped the engine down to a bare block with the block still mounted to the frame. He miced everything and decided everything was in spec. Ran a ball brush through the cylinders, hand lapped the valves put in new rings and bearings. Drove the snot out of it till the frame broke towing his race car about 20yrs latter.
You can do it low budget easy, just have to check your cylinders close and clean the crap out of the water jackets.
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will e
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Re: The crossed fingers 360

Post by will e »

Is the oiling mod necessary? Mine isn't modified and it runs like a champ.
81 Waggy 'WILL E' Retired
82 Cherokee WT - SOA/SF/high steer/Alcan springs/agr box/Borgeson steering shaft/AMC 401/performer/holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS (2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave, Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37X12.5/Corbeau XRS Baja & 5 point retractable harness/Hella Aux lights/tuffy console/killer32 sliders/Evil Twin bumpers, rack and roll cage/WARN 8000/TT Fabworks steering brace/dual batts/custom TC skid plate/ARB fridge

Nikkormat
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Re: The crossed fingers 360

Post by Nikkormat »

The oiling mod isn't strictly necessary.

I just ordered a dingle ball hone you're welcome to borrow it for a while to do your 360.

Can't wait to see what it looks like under the heads!

Assuming the bores look decent you should be able to reuse everything but the rings, bearings, and timing set.
Last edited by Nikkormat on Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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tedlovesjeeps71
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Re: The crossed fingers 360

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

I realize it isn't necessary but I look at it like cheap insurance. And since I'll have the block down to nothing I should be able to ensure no metal shavings fall from doing the mod.
Should have heads off Monday night so...
Crossed fingers.


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Re: The crossed fingers 360

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

The more I look into the oil mod the less sure I am it is all that beneficial. So many decisions, so little smarts (me).


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shimniok
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Re: The crossed fingers 360

Post by shimniok »

I had it done on mine and a metal valley pan gasket won't fit without cutting.

If there were a way to revise it so I didn't have to hack up the gasket, great, otherwise I am taking it out before I put that motor back in again.

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The crossed fingers 360

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

So here's a couple random questions.
When I get the motor torn down it will go into the big parts washing machine at school. I noticed from looking in the thermostat housing that there is a LOT of gunk built up in there. If the passages have lots of scale in them I doubt even the commercial Snap-On rotating cleaner will get that stuff out. Any thoughts on how to maximize cleaning the coolant passages??

My other question is on the intake. I'll be putting an edelbrock performer on with a valley pan gasket.... I think? Do I need to swap over the metal tray from the factory 2bbl? Do I use gasket maker in addition to the metal valley gasket? Tips N tricks please?


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Tatsadasayago
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Re: The crossed fingers 360

Post by Tatsadasayago »

Often a liquid is added to the parts washer which attacks corrosion and rust. Ask your shop manager if there is any available. If not, you can spread Naval Jelly over the rusty areas, let it sit then wash it off before sending the part to the washer. That stuff is AMAZING on rust so use a round brush to get the jelly as far into the coolant passages as you can.

The metal baffle that is pinned to the bottom of the intake prevents oil mist from being sucked into the PCV circuit. It can be removed with a cold chisel. Chisel the heads off of the rivets, clean everything up (especially the metal mesh pad inside) and attach to the new manifold using #6 self tapping screws. For extra insurance applying some Loc-Tite red or blue to the threads will ensure they don't break loose.

Oh, and it is common practice to ditch the end lip gaskets and spread a large RTV bead from head to head. The trick is to allow the RTV to set up until it is no longer sticky then mount the manifold but leave the bolts finger tight for about 30 minutes, then torque them all down in sequence. What this does is allow the RTV to semi-harden--so it acts like an O-Ring gasket and not ooze out all over the place when you torque the bolts down.
The factory type lip seals have a bad habit of pushing out or later drying out and cracking, both lead to oil loss.
As far as the intake and coolant ports; some Permatex Gold gasket spray around the intake ports and water passages (both sides) is sufficient. The factory installed them dry by the way. Aftermarket metal gaskets have the crushable ribs around the passages and also have a soft tacking compound sprayed on them.
Sometimes some RTV is required where the surface of the coolant passages are pitted from rust and if so, a small amount usually does the trick.
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Re: The crossed fingers 360

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

Awesome feedback sir! Thank you!!


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Re: The crossed fingers 360

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

Got some more tear down done tonight. So far so good as far as condition. I was concerned because there was so much gunk in the thermostat housing.
Image
Pulled it and the intake was clean. All the crystallizing was on the top of the thermostat.
Well... Mostly. Once I got the water pump off I saw why it wouldn't rotate.
ImageImage
Next was the intake. Wasn't able to clean it off so I'm just relying on the washing machine to get whatever falls inside. Valley pan wasn't as bad as I figured it would be.
Image
Pulling that revealed a valley that was amazingly clean.... At least to my untrained eyes!
Image
Heads came off next. Took a goodly amount of prying to get them to break loose but we managed. Can't say what I think about them. Anyone able to see any weirdness or warnings in the valve colors?
ImageImage
Last thing we had time for was the timing cover. Got it off and first thing I noticed was a good deal of slop in the chain. Good thing I'm replacing that.
We also got the engine to rotate some. It only gave a little hesitation but didn't need Armstrong strength. Cylinder walls don't look very exciting but it is pretty dirty still. Tomorrow the pistons and cam will come out. More info then.
ImageImageImageImage

Oh, we also got the oil pan off. Not very exciting pic.
Image

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Re: The crossed fingers 360

Post by Nikkormat »

I see crosshatch in the cylinders!
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Re: The crossed fingers 360

Post by tedlovesjeeps71 »

Nikkormat wrote:I see crosshatch in the cylinders!
Lol. Yeah, I see a little but it's faint. It's also pretty dirty in there and I didn't have time to do any cleaning. Hopefully there is a lot of cross hatching just hidden by the dirt. Hopefully the bores are round and the taper is within spec. Tomorrow will tell a lot, I hope.

So since the cam is getting replaced, should I pull the dizzy drive off it and install it on the new cam? I have an HEI dizzy in storage I may put in. Probably need to pull the dizzy gear anyway for that. Is it best to keep the factory gears so they are matched?


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