E350 D60

[Cecil14]

Hey guys,

I looked around a bit and didn't find exactly what I'm looking for, so I figured I would post this info up as I go.

I will be acquiring a 2004 E350 D60 later this week, and as I have an 80s J20 D60 sitting here I want to compare the two. I'll roll them side by side in the drive and take as many pics/measurements as I can while I'm working.

If there's anything someone wants specific measurements or pics of, ask away, I'll get what I can. I definitely plan to get WMS to WMS, stock spring perch distances, shock locations, maybe pinion angle?


Thanks,


aa

[Stuka]

Wont that E350 D60 be a D61? As I recall they have a 72" WMS, so will be curious how wide yours is.

What are your plans for it?

[Cecil14]

Wont that E350 D60 be a D61? As I recall they have a 72" WMS, so will be curious how wide yours is.

What are your plans for it?

From everything I've been able to find, the D61 really only differs from the D60 in the gear sets available; the D61 case is designed to support higher (numerically lower) gear sets. The axle I am picking up (assuming the yard gets it right) should have 4.10s.

I do expect it to be wider, how much I am not sure. I've seen a couple people over on the mothership talk about the van axle being a good width for the trucks, though, so here's hoping. The price isn't horrible, so it's worth a gamble to me.

Couple things I like about the van axles is the smooth bottom and factory disk brakes (w/ e-brake).

The plan is to throw that into the J-10 instead of the J-20 axle I have. Mine would require a master rebuild (been sitting with water in it for a good while) as well as a disk brake conversion. The van axle is ready for 35 spline shafts should I ever desire it, has 3.5" tubes, has factory disks, a limited slip, and supposedly only ~80k miles. I don't really care much about the LSD, but it's a fun extra for the time being.

Essentially, the van axle is a 20+ year improvement over the standard stuff available in our rigs. It's got some nice moderny upgrades that I like.


aa

[cmaje72]

Check the lug pattern...that axle may be new enough to have the metric pattern. Not sure when ford changed it.
If its got 4.10's its likely not a 61. So you should be good there.

[Cecil14]

It's definitely not a D61, assuming it is the one it is supposed to be, I have not seen it in person yet. The '99-04 axles should all be 8 on 6.5". They went to the metric pattern starting in 2005. I will be taking a wheel with me when I pick it up, just to be sure, though.



aa

[Stuka]

Check the lug pattern...that axle may be new enough to have the metric pattern. Not sure when ford changed it.
If its got 4.10's its likely not a 61. So you should be good there.

The vans kept the old 8x6.5 lug pattern up to the end. Since they were used in fleets, keeping them the same was a requirement.

EDIT: I see cecil says 2005 is the change over, so maybe they did change?

[Cecil14]

Stuka,

From all the info I've been able to find, I know that '99-04 are supposed to interchange. I don't know for sure what happened after that, but I have seen some people state the '05+ vans went to the metric 'super duty' pattern to match the trucks.


aa

[Cecil14]

So the axle is definitely wider than the stock D60. I don't have any great measurements yet, need to rig up a better way of moving things around first. This thing weighs a TON. I bet it's close to double the weight of the original axle...crazy. It absolutely dwarfs the stock axle.

After some very unscientific measurements, I believe I can even out the extra width with some newer factory wheels. Most of the factory wheels now have 5-6" or more backspacing and a pretty positive offset, should tuck the wheels in closer to where things need to be. I can then get some spacers to even the front out and go to town.

Spring perches are 3/4-1" too closer together, again from some very quick measurements. From what I can find, the vans had 3" springs, instead of our 2.5" springs. There is enough room to move the perches out to the truck width without too much trouble. The shock mounts are almost perfect...except they angle toward the center a bit rather than being straight upright like ours. Neither of these are big deals, though.

So the question for today: where is everyone getting weld on spring perches, shock mounts, and wheel spacers these days?
RuffStuff Specialties has some nice perches and spring plates (5/8" u-bolts!). I was also looking at these guys for wheel spacers. I don't know if any of these prices or high or not, this is the furthest I've ever gotten into this kind of project. If anyone has any suggests for sellers, I am all ears.

On another side note, where is everyone hosting pics these days? Something free would be great.

Note, the wheels I have do not seat all the way to the WMS, the center holes are too small.

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Thanks,


aa

[Stuka]

Hmm, that looks like it has dually hubs on it. You can probably change those out to suck the wheels in. Definitely has thicker tubes, do you know if those are D60HD's? 35 spline instead of 30 spline? Should be a good axle.

[Cecil14]

I have not pulled it apart to check anything yet, I'm hoping to get to some of that this weekend. I'll try to grab the BOM # before I leave for work in the morning, should shine a bit more light on what I've got.

Do you have know of any pics floating around comparing SRW and DRW hubs? These looks super huge to me, but I wasn't sure if it was just the disk brake hubs.


aa

[Cecil14]

Alright, so pulled up the BOM and it is indeed a DRW D70. Not that I am opposed to a D70, but this is definitely not the axle I ordered and paid for. I called the place back today and he is figuring out why they had a D70 and not the D60 they supposedly got for me. Hopefully I hear back soon. I'll be checking the BOM before I even drive back down next time.


aa

[REDONE]

Good for you yerfing that thing around! I bought and paid for a 14FF once on eBay, a D70HD is what arrived on the pallet. I was such a hassle I haven't bought anything from eBay since. You might have different plans but the 70 was worthless for my intentions, hopefully you get the axle you paid for in the end. I was just screwed out of $650.

[Cecil14]

That's exactly why I wanted to someplace local, so I can go and wring some necks if need be. haha It was my bad not checking things over and realizing something was wrong right up front, but it was late, they were getting ready to close, and I'd already waited a week for what was supposed to be there the first time I went in.

I'd be happy to keep the D70, it doesn't hurt my feelings to have even more beef. It just does me no good without the right hubs and shafts, and I'm sure they're not gonna cough those up for free. haha

Round 2....FIGHT!


aa

[Stuka]

Well that definitely explains the thicker tubes. D70's have a 4" tubes as I recall. The hubs are easy to change out, but is an added annoyance.

But hey, you could start a DRW J30 project

[Cecil14]

Haha, it's not that I mind changing them, it's just *getting* them that's the problem. I don't have a good source for them, and I've already spent more than I really wanted to on this "ready to run" axle.

Side note - do the shafts not need to be changed as well to match the shorter hubs? I'd guess they have to be run as a matched set?

I think the D70HD had 4.0" tubes, believe the regular D70 was still 3.5" tubes. I can verify that in a couple hours, though.

If anyone wants any specific measurements or pics from this beast before it goes back, speak up now. Happy to grab them before it goes back to the yard for the right one.


aa

[Stuka]

Haha, it's not that I mind changing them, it's just *getting* them that's the problem. I don't have a good source for them, and I've already spent more than I really wanted to on this "ready to run" axle.

Side note - do the shafts not need to be changed as well to match the shorter hubs? I'd guess they have to be run as a matched set?

I think the D70HD had 4.0" tubes, believe the regular D70 was still 3.5" tubes. I can verify that in a couple hours, though.

If anyone wants any specific measurements or pics from this beast before it goes back, speak up now. Happy to grab them before it goes back to the yard for the right one.


aa

Not sure on the shafts, I have seen it both ways with various axles (D70/14FF). If you got a picture of the hub area, maybe with the tire off, it would be pretty easy to tell. Or actually, if the center hub with the axle shaft flange protrudes out past the wheel mounting surface, than yes, the shafts have to be changed. But I have seen some that basically have a spacer (similar to front DRWs) to move the wheel mounting surface out without changing the shaft.

[Cecil14]

The hub is definitely one single unit, the shafts look pretty long from my quick glance. I'll be pulling the tires back off tonight so I can load it back on the trailer anyway, so I'll grab pics then.


aa

[Stuka]

Ok, I just dug around a bit. The D70's are different widths for DRW vs SRW. As in, the axle shafts are different.

So, you don't want that axle unless you are actually going to want a DRW. Which you don't.

[Cecil14]

That's pretty much what I suspected. I looked around a bit earlier for some SRW D70 hubs and I didn't see much floating around. I'm pretty sure it would just be way too much work to convert it over for my needs.


aa