Mopar Magnum V8 swap...

[pcoplin]

Anyone here do a 5.2 or 5.9 swap into their Wagoneer?

I've swapped one into my TJ and helped a couple friends do theirs into a TJ/YJ, but am not finding much info on the Wagoneer.

I'm planning on doing a 96-97 5.2/46RE into my 85 Wagoneer in the next few months. Using the Advance Adapters engine mounts and fabbing a new crossmember (looks to be about 5 inches longer the AMC 727 auto.

Couple questions:

1) Speedometer - How to get the electroc OBD2 speedometer to the manual Wagoneer one. My buddy had found a speed sensor that had an electric output and a cable output. He ended up swapping in a 95 YJ speedomter that's fully electronic. I'll either try this, or are the 90-91 speedometers electronic?

2) Manifolds - I have to get block huggers? I noticed the early 318 Ram had center dumps.

3) Fuel tank - likely going to swap in a ZJ tank/fuel pump.

4) Shifter - Likely have to adapt the Cherokee tunnel mount shifter for the auto shifter.

5) Cables - Ram or Dakota accel cable?


Thanks for any input and look for some swappage soon.

[Stuka]

I know there have been Magnum swaps before. I just don't have any links on hand. IFSJA may have some thing if you search, but its search functionality is pretty broken these days.

1) 96-97 should still have an analog pickup in the transfer case as I recall? The switch over was somewhere in that area. if its still the gear style internally in the tail housing of the t-case, then you are fine. Or if you plan on using the factory NP229, then you are fine. If you are going to use the NP231/241 that came behind the 46RE, then you need to see what style speedometer it is setup for. You do not need to use the output from the ECU at all unless you plan on swapping in an aftermarket gage set.

2) The frame on the Ram is close to the same width as a Wagoneers. I think the stock manifolds will work fine. If you want headers, then you will probably want some that stay closer in. But it would be best to measure the frame widths. My guess is that if the Ram needs block huggers, the waggy will too.

3) The ZJ tank should fit fine, and solves the issue of needing a fuel pump in the tank. However, the sending unit may be reverse polarity from what the '85 has. I *think* 86 was the change over to the newer (reversed from older) style.

4) You could probably get the column mount shifter to work, I know guys have with GM transmissions without too much of a hassle.

5) My guess is you are going to need a custom length cable. I would go for which ever one is longer, so it can be cut down if needed.

[pcoplin]

The 96/97 has an electronic speed sensor, and the PCM needs this. I'm thinking I won't be able to have a speedo without swapping something in.


Thanks for the idea for the column shifter. That would be awesome. I'll see what it looks like underneath.

[carnuck]

Check into the sensor used on '91 Wranglers. It has electronic and screw on speedo cable (I have one for my 4.0L AW4 conversion in my J10)

[rainman]

I have one of them magnum motors in my FSJ.

I had to make a cutom crossmember. (46rh is longer the 727 and 46re) Front driveshaft would not clear crossmember in either stock location with my 4" lift.

1-Try a speed sensor from a 92-93 vintage dodge dakota. May not work with ODB2 but works in my OBD1 application.

2-I used the stock manifolds. I reduced the height of my heater box to clear the EGR tube. I think the vans use center dump manifolds...i could be wrong.

3-I used a ZJ tank, (95 ZJ was doner for this swap) fits like a glove.

4-Used the column shifter with modified linkage

5-I think i used a van accel cable. I know the ZJ one didn't work.

Incomplete build thread on the mother ship: http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=79083

Incomplete picture dump: http://s145.photobucket.com/albums/r206 ... par_power/

[pcoplin]

Rainman, awesome info. For some reason its very hard to search and find good info on this swap.

[pcoplin]

Anyone use the combination electronic/cable speed sensor from the 91 YJ with an OBD2 PCM?

Got a 98 5.2 for it. Just need to figure out the speedometer AMD fuel gauge.

[pcoplin]

Got the engine and trans last week. 98 5.2, 44RE, y-pipe, engine harness, and PCM from a ZJ. Picked up a few swap things the past week: PDC with harness, throttle linkage, purge solenoid, charcoal canister, and cruise stuff. So far...$560.

Stripped the PDC and harness to get rid of all of the unnecessary crap like ABS, horn, lights, etc. Only have 3 wires to the ignition, one to wire into the start circuit in the Waggy, one to wire into the stock fusebox (for rewire), fuel pump wire, overdrive button wire, purge solenoid wires, and 7 wires for the data link connector. Also kept the backup lamp wire in case I can't adapt the stock circuit. Took about 8 hours.

Got a speed sensor from a 93 Dakota for the PCM. I did notice MY Wagoneer has an 8 pulse/ revolution speed sensor for the cruise in the middle of the speedo cable. I'm thinking this may work for the Jeep PCM. I may try it just to find out.

Ordered motor mounts tonight. Need to order a radiator and a cat. Getting closer to ripping the AMC out!

[pcoplin]

One more note, I was planning on using a 96-98 ZJ tank and pump but couldn't tink of an easy solution to keep the stock fuel gauge. I've decided on using an in-tank pump at the bottom of the Wagoneer fuel pickup. I have NIB Mustang pump I've had forever that'll work just fine. If not, there's several I can get for not much money I think. Just need to get an earlier model Magnum fuel rail that has the built-in regulator and return system. Should be real easy that way.

[rainman]

...Also kept the backup lamp wire in case I can't adapt the stock circuit.

The stock backup light wiring passes through the firewall three times. Power feed is on the fuse box inside, goes out to the switch on the tranny, back inside, and then right back outside to the 8-way connector underneath the bulkhead. I bypassed that (mostly to free up bulkhead connector pins) by feeding the switch from the engine fuse/relay box. The only reason it goes through the bulkhead now is because I moved all my rear-end wiring inside.

[pcoplin]

Thanks rainman, couple more if you would.

3-I used a ZJ tank, (95 ZJ was doner for this swap) fits like a glove.

Did you integrate the stock gauge somehow?

4-Used the column shifter with modified linkage

Maybe it'll be apparent when I have them both out, how (and which) did you modify the cable? I'm thinking maybe the 727 linkage could actually bolt on in place of the 46RE one?

[carnuck]

It should bolt on the same.

[rainman]

Did you integrate the stock gauge somehow?

i shoehorned a instrument clustrer from a 95 Dodge Dakota in place of the stock gauges. Fuel gauge works just like stock--sits near full for a long while and then drops rapidly toward E after it hits half a tank. I still need to figure out why the oil pressure gauge reads backwards.

Maybe it'll be apparent when I have them both out, how (and which) did you modify the cable? I'm thinking maybe the 727 linkage could actually bolt on in place of the 46RE one?

Column shift is a set of steel rods and bushings. I went upscale and used threaded heim joints. I forgot to grab the piece that mounts to the bellhousing before I sold the 360/727 so i used a piece of angle iron. I recommend getting the shift lever piece (the one that is directly atached to the trans) from the 727 so it's easier to line up the gear selector.

[pcoplin]

Very nice. What did you do for the radiator? I'm hoping the stock shroud will work with the Advance Adapters motor mounts.

[rainman]

Very nice. What did you do for the radiator? I'm hoping the stock shroud will work with the Advance Adapters motor mounts.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-380428

[pcoplin]

Drove a tank of fuel down today with the 360 with the 4 barrel. 8 mpg. Terrible! I can't want to get this in...

[rainman]

Drove a tank of fuel down today with the 360 with the 4 barrel. 8 mpg. Terrible! I can't want to get this in...

Git'er done! I filled up this morning and then drove for 300+ miles. Still have about a quarter tank left. Estimate 15-17 mpg.


You may want to think about using the stock frame horns to mount your engine instead of the AA kit. I used the Novak kit and kinda wish I wouldn't have. There may/should be mount holes on the sides of the block (3 per) that i think the IFS trucks use. Fabricating a mount like jeepinpete's mounts might be a better/easier option.

[pcoplin]

Huh, never thought of using the stock frame mounts. I can make motor mounts pretty easy, purchasing mounts just makes it a snap. They are on backorder for another 2 weeks... I'll have to look and see how those lower mounts line up with the stock frame mounts.

Although I have some poly bushings, it would be nice to use rubber on this rig.


I used the AA mounts in my TJ swap, but the frame side is locked in, not the adjustable type the universal mounts are. We also used the Novak mounts on my buddy's 5.2 swap into his YJ. Seemed kind of a pain to bolt together, but not bad to set up. What don't you like about them?

[rainman]

i had to trim/reinforce the driver side to clear the steering shaft. I believe the steering shaft angle on the baby jeeps is significantly steeper and doesn't have the same issue.



Perfectly functional but if I do this again i will likely try something else.

[pcoplin]

Gotcha. I had to trim mine to clear a 3rd link on uptravel. Kind of a pain.


I couldn't wait, I went down and measured the distance from center of the fan to the center of the engine mounts on both blocks: AMC 18 inch, Dodge 18.5 inch. Plenty of room to the radiator, plus the Dodge fan clutch is shallower over all. Just need to get under there and measure the width to make sure the Dodge block leaves enough room to make the mounts without cutting down the stock horns.

Be a couple hours of fab time, but I believe you just saved me $150. Thanks a ton for all your help.