Questions about possibly converting to a manual

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derf
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Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Postby derf » Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:55 am

I've been thinking about several engine swap options for Truck Norris. One that comes up is a donor drivetrain with a GM engine and NV4500 manual.

The 4500 is a hydraulic clutch and I know I'd like to keep it that way.

I know I can find a pedal assembly that comes with a clutch pedal.

I'm also probably going to do the hydroboost swap when I swap in the engine so that'll clear some space for the hydraulic master on the firewall.

The question then goes to what master to use. What bolts up to the firewall? What about rod length? What kind of mods would I have to do to make that work? I'm thinking I'd like to try and use the same master from the donor truck (at least a new/remanufactured one). Would you think that the donor's stock hydraulic line would work?

I see that BJ's sells a kit to swap in a hydraulic clutch in place of the mechanical linkage. How well would that work?

Any advice and experience would be appreciated. :-bd

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Cecil14
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Postby Cecil14 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:03 pm

I can't say if any of it will work with the NV4500 clutch, but I'm using the stock setup out of a '99 TJ with an NV3550. Everything fits really well. I think I had to drill a couple holes to bolt the master cylinder to the firewall, but I believe everything else hooked up directly (it's been about a decade, so I could be forgetting something). The only thing I really don't like about the stock TJ setup is that it uses a pre-connected/molded master/hose/slave setup. It's not designed to be bled, and it's a bit of a pain to handle. It can be bled, there's lots of info about doing it online, but it's not as simple as opening a bleeder screw on the slave like a real setup would be.

Other than that, I've been super happy with my setup. I'd never go back to a manual clutch for all the money in the world.


aa
Anthony

1983 J-10 - 4.6L(MPFI)/CS130D/Hydroboost/NV3550/D300/44/44/3.54/Disc-Disc/32s/42 gallon 'burb tank

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tedlovesjeeps71
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Postby tedlovesjeeps71 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:50 pm

Remind me tomorrow and I'll let you look at my hydraulic stuff I'm gonna use on my scrambler.

csuengr
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Postby csuengr » Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:55 am

It’s been a couple years since I did it, but as I remember:

Go with a hydro boost setup.
You will have to drill holes in the firewall for the clutch master cylinder.
Measure twice or three, four times before you drill because if your off, welcome to swear city. (My master cylinder push rod now needs an S bend in it)
I had to drill a hole in my clutch pedal and weld in a stud for the master cylinder push rod.
1977 Cherokee S, Ford 5.0, 5 speed, BW 1356, 33 x 10.50 BFG's. My DD and only vehicle.

fsj454
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Postby fsj454 » Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:11 am

I did all the above . The question is what year nv4500 ????? . I used 1995 nv4500 that has external slave with all gm factory parts from junk yard . There is a factory hole in a stock amc clutch pedal that I used above factory stock setup. The most important thing is placing clutch slave cylinder resivor to line up with top hole on clutch pedal .And I had to modify Hydroboost rod to brake pedal you can pull rod out of hydroboost for modification. I have a complete brake and clutch assembly from low mileage truck for sale ... BEEN THERE DONE THAT .
:fsj:

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Grand_Wag_85
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Postby Grand_Wag_85 » Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:51 pm

BJ's sells a hydraulic clutch conversion kit for the FSJ. I don't blame you for wanting to go that route. My J10 has a harder clutch pedal than a semi truck!
82 J10
65 J2000

You know it's bad when your car is on the EPA's 10 most wanted list!

Fast Eddie
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Postby Fast Eddie » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:24 am

Interesting post! The PO converted my J20 to a NV4500 and used the stock AMC manual linkage. Works great, very light pedal and no issues having to find a mounting a slave M/C either!! He got all the adapters from ADVANCED and it is a great package IMO. Just another conversion option!
BTW this 4500 trans came out of a Dodge truck.....
1979 J20, 360 w/NV4500/D300 Twin Stick/3.73 axles :fsj:
1978 Cherokee Chief W/T Levi interior, 360 Q/T. SCRAPPED
1970 Gladiator J4800 Camper Special, Buick 350, 4spd. SOLD

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Phils67
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Postby Phils67 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:07 am

Fast Eddie wrote:Interesting post! The PO converted my J20 to a NV4500 and used the stock AMC manual linkage. Works great, very light pedal and no issues having to find a mounting a slave M/C either!! He got all the adapters from ADVANCED and it is a great package IMO. Just another conversion option!
BTW this 4500 trans came out of a Dodge truck.....

Since it comes out of a Dodge wouldnt it have an AMC bellhousing? What was needed from AA? Transfer adapter?
1967 J2000/ 4.0MPI/T18/D20/35s

fsj454
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Postby fsj454 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:48 am

The top hole in the stock clutch pedal is there but you have to remove rubber stopper and use that hole ..These are very tricky units you must have clutch spring on unit before you install or you will not get spring on latter . MY HYDROBOOST has 1 ton 4 wheel disc brakes on 35s And HYDRAULIC CLUTCH . aLL jUNk yArd pArtS MODIFIED DD
:fsj:

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tedlovesjeeps71
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Postby tedlovesjeeps71 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:26 am

Phils67 wrote:
Fast Eddie wrote:Interesting post! The PO converted my J20 to a NV4500 and used the stock AMC manual linkage. Works great, very light pedal and no issues having to find a mounting a slave M/C either!! He got all the adapters from ADVANCED and it is a great package IMO. Just another conversion option!
BTW this 4500 trans came out of a Dodge truck.....

Since it comes out of a Dodge wouldnt it have an AMC bellhousing? What was needed from AA? Transfer adapter?


Umm... No.

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Phils67
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Postby Phils67 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:10 am

Ok....I don't follow the technical specs of Dodge nor do I care to. I haven't read up on any NV4500 Dodge swaps to an AMC engine either. Thats why I asked. Judging by your reply I am under the assumption a bellhousing or bell adapter as well. I'll have to read up on it more. Thanks for the clarification though
1967 J2000/ 4.0MPI/T18/D20/35s

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Cecil14
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Postby Cecil14 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:33 am

NOTHING shares a bellhousing pattern with AMC. The Ford "butterfly" pattern stuff in the 80s is about as close as it gets, and that's only because a custom bellhousing was the cheapest/easiest way to get the Ford transmission in there.


aa
Anthony

1983 J-10 - 4.6L(MPFI)/CS130D/Hydroboost/NV3550/D300/44/44/3.54/Disc-Disc/32s/42 gallon 'burb tank

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tedlovesjeeps71
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Postby tedlovesjeeps71 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:16 am

Phils67 wrote:Ok....I don't follow the technical specs of Dodge nor do I care to. I haven't read up on any NV4500 Dodge swaps to an AMC engine either. Thats why I asked. Judging by your reply I am under the assumption a bellhousing or bell adapter as well. I'll have to read up on it more. Thanks for the clarification though


Sorry, was still waking up when I wrote that.
While jeep did borrow/steal components from Ford and Chevy quite regularly, the only thing I can recall that was a Chrysler/dodge shared component was the 727 auto and some others.
AMC has its own bellhousing pattern. Where GM had a Chevy and BOPC (Buick,olds, Pontiac, and caddy) patterns and Ford had their own thing, dodge has rarely related to jeep even during the Chrysler years. Eg: an AMC 360 is very different from a dodge 360. This, the bellhousing pattern is very different.

Fast Eddie
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Postby Fast Eddie » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:33 am

Phils67 wrote:
Fast Eddie wrote:Interesting post! The PO converted my J20 to a NV4500 and used the stock AMC manual linkage. Works great, very light pedal and no issues having to find a mounting a slave M/C either!! He got all the adapters from ADVANCED and it is a great package IMO. Just another conversion option!
BTW this 4500 trans came out of a Dodge truck.....

Since it comes out of a Dodge wouldnt it have an AMC bellhousing? What was needed from AA? Transfer adapter?

Phils67,
NO bellhousing is stock AMC, the adapter is from rear of bell to the NV4500 trans mounting. I believe ADVANCED still has the parts to do the swap and to add the Dana 300 T/C.
1979 J20, 360 w/NV4500/D300 Twin Stick/3.73 axles :fsj:
1978 Cherokee Chief W/T Levi interior, 360 Q/T. SCRAPPED
1970 Gladiator J4800 Camper Special, Buick 350, 4spd. SOLD

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Phils67
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Postby Phils67 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:24 am

You sure there is no bellhousing out there?
I just googled it and found a bunch like this one. Https://www.polyperformance.com/advance ... lQQAvD_BwE
1967 J2000/ 4.0MPI/T18/D20/35s

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derf
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Postby derf » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:37 pm

Phils67 wrote:You sure there is no bellhousing out there?
I just googled it and found a bunch like this one. Https://www.polyperformance.com/advance ... lQQAvD_BwE


The aftermarket has supplied bellhousings, sure. Advance Adapters and Novak are the two main suppliers for AMC engine to any non-factory-stock transmission bellhousings/adapters.

There is no factory stock bellhousing for an NV4500 to an AMC engine. If you're trying to use an NV4500 behind an AMC, it requires an aftermarket piece. No factory stock piece will work.

fsj454
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Postby fsj454 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:02 pm

nv4500 92-95 nv4500 96 - on .. Two different transmissions . You must now year of TRANSMISION so you can buy the right parts ....Dodge has bigger clutch spline. there will be a code on top next to shift tower plastic file sticker with big letters that will be the year code and company that used nv4500..PS NEXT TIME ALLISON...
-
:fsj:

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tedlovesjeeps71
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Re: Questions about possibly converting to a manual

Postby tedlovesjeeps71 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:05 pm

derf wrote:
Phils67 wrote:You sure there is no bellhousing out there?
I just googled it and found a bunch like this one. Https://www.polyperformance.com/advance ... lQQAvD_BwE


The aftermarket has supplied bellhousings, sure. Advance Adapters and Novak are the two main suppliers for AMC engine to any non-factory-stock transmission bellhousings/adapters.

There is no factory stock bellhousing for an NV4500 to an AMC engine. If you're trying to use an NV4500 behind an AMC, it requires an aftermarket piece. No factory stock piece will work.


Or a factory AMC bellhousing and adapter plate.

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