Starter Issue

[Knucklehead]

Ok, my sons 84 Wagoneer has done this 3 times now. He starts the engine and the starter does not disengage from the flexplate even when he turns the ignition off and removes the key. The starter continues to run until he removes the ground cable from the battery. At that point the engine dies but if you try and reconnect the ground the starter engages as if trying to start the engine. Possible causes?

[ChrisHager]

Bad solenoid perhaps?

[Knucklehead]

Replaced the Starter and Solenoid after the second occurrence.

[ChrisHager]

Something in the ignition switch sticking? I wish I knew exactly the problem but I'm not sure what it could be. I figured if I throw a couple logical ideas out, maybe it will spark an idea...

[carnuck]

Rig up a cut out switch on the ground wire for the NSS. If you cut the ground and it keeps going, then either the starter is bad (and welding the solenoid contacts due to the heavy draw) or the battery is so low in voltage that it's drawing too many amps to make up for it. Common Ford starter issue. That and bad nose bushing or extremely worn flywheel teeth.

[Knucklehead]

The last time it happened, the starter and solenoid had just bee replaced the day before. The flex plate does need replace and will be in the next couple of months along with the battery.

[carnuck]

Check the battery voltage at reast and while cranking. 12.6V after sitting all night is normal. Less is a low or weak battery. Dropping below 10 volts cranking is a bad sign too.

[haminawag]

I think another bad sign is that when he pulls the negative cable off the batt while its running the engine dies, why isn't the alternator providing juice to the electrical system, or at the very least to the ignition system? Nah, he's got something else is going on there.

If it were mine I'd yank the starter motor and carefully check it for binding and unusual wear on the teeth. Then I'd go to the starter relay (the starter solenoid is on the starter motor) and disconnect it, bench test it, if it's good then it's wired wrong, or the starter solenoid is shot. These aren't real expensive parts, for the age of the truck I'd just replace the starter assy., and the relay. If it's got a computer running things then I'd buy an older Wagoneer. HAH!

[carnuck]

That's easy! The starter wants more power than the alt can make and the key is probably turned off. I discovered that charging batteries through my Comanche's cigarette lighter port keeps everything running until I pull the cord! Guess I need to add a diode to the port.

[haminawag]

If the key is off then the engine can't be running.

[carnuck]

Just had a stock alt short the regulator and not allow the '86 GW to shut off all the way (motor sputtered and stopped but the battery continued draining)

[Knucklehead]

Update.....Ok here is an update. Got a call this afternoon from my son. Got to work and his Waggy wouldnt shut off. He pulled both battery cables (+ and -) and it stayed running. He ended up having to pull the coil wire to get it to shut off. A Search on The Mothership pointed at Ignition Switch, Alternator back feeding 12v or the Solenoid. I'm leaning toward the alternator back feeding 12v since he took the battery completely out of the loop.

More ideas?

.....GO!!!!

[carnuck]

Unplug the alt field and see if it stays running after.

[serehill]

I can agree that the alternator can keep the rig running if someone has removed the resistor wire form the alternator circuit that is an easy fix. or put a flaky alternator. A diode will fix that but it won't fix the starter issue. It sounds like you have wires shorting together. Rubbed burnt by exhaust or other wise.. The second option mentioned is the ignition switch. It may be coming apart. A voltage meter will check the symptoms out. The NSS can not engage the starter & make it run that's not it.
Question what was going on right before this started any part changes work done on the rig? Alternator starter etc. You say that some of this stuff was recently changed Why? BTW are you sure you have the right solenoid because there are several different ones that look alike. wiring the solenoid wrong or the wrong solenoid can cause this.

if you pull the alternator plug & it dies do this.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/show ... p?t=389737

I still don't think this is the single issue.

[letank]

Any update on that issue?
It happened to me a few days ago, disconnected the battery to stop the starter... did 6 cycles, and so far so good... but it is annoying... to have a 1/2" open end wrench on the dash