Engine Options

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Matt24601
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Engine Options

Post by Matt24601 »

I've pulled my original worn 360 from my '83 Wagoneer and wanted to ask about engine options. Now, I've been online and on this forum long enough to know that you can put anything in there if you want to, but I'm really looking for less exotic options. Basically I want a super reliable driver. My original plan was and maybe still is to take the engine/trans in to have them rebuilt. I'm in the DFW area and I'm not an internal engine kind of guy. That is still outside of my comfort zone. My concern is that I'll spend $1700 on an engine rebuild and end up with an underpowered stock engine. Crate engines from say Summit or similar are in the neighborhood of $3000 up. This sound about right? I've replaced suspension and accessories on my Jeeps before, but never an engine. Just looking for some different opinions on drive train replacement. Thanks.

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'83 Wagoneer / 360 V8 / DFW, TX / Stock...for now :fsj:
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Phils67
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Re: Engine Options

Post by Phils67 »

If you have more time than money you could always find a 98-99 XJ donor cheap and do a 4.0 conversion. Decent power and torque, semi-decent fuel economy, and a time tested tough to kill engine. Plus its rated at 190hp vs. the 160hp that 360 is rated at, and its real torquey. That's what I have currently and the engine has been the only thing that hasn't given me grief on the truck. Its been in there coming up on about 6 years and has been going strong the whole time. Parts are cheap and available. Easy diagnosis with the OBD2 also. If you want to stay V8, I see alot of guys doing 5.3/6.0 swaps with great results. Personally if I were to go V8 I would look for a wrecked Ram or Jeep with a Hemi 5.7 and snatch it up for a donor. As long as you are good with electrical, any of these swaps I mentioned would be great swaps. Even an earlier Dodge/Jeep with a fuel injected 360 or 318 would be an upgrade and probably a little easier to setup electronically. Nothing wrong with carburetors, just speaking from experience. Fuel injection has me spoiled.
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will e
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Re: Engine Options

Post by will e »

I assume emissions is not a concern. The 360 can be perked up a bit with a cam, new ignition and a 4bll carb and intake. This would be your least expensive route. Maybe get a dual exhaust too. Headers are an option but if you stick to the cam, carb, exhaust your modifications are limited and the problems resulting from modifications are limited too. Swapping a different engine and/or drive train means custom work and that almost always leads to little problems that need to be worked out.
81 Waggy 'WILL E' Retired
82 Cherokee WT - SOA/SF/high steer/Alcan springs/agr box/Borgeson steering shaft/AMC 401/performer/holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS (2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave, Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37X12.5/Corbeau XRS Baja & 5 point retractable harness/Hella Aux lights/tuffy console/killer32 sliders/Evil Twin bumpers, rack and roll cage/WARN 8000/TT Fabworks steering brace/dual batts/custom TC skid plate/ARB fridge

letank
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Re: Engine Options

Post by letank »

Matt24601 wrote: Basically I want a super reliable driver
The engine / drive train is one part of the equation, electrical is the other .

As will e said, anything works, and looking at the transplant solutions like the 5.3 or any other LS options are very tempting, but in the end when you go the gm or chevy boards, those engines and trans seem to have their own issues.

Our 360s are indeed underpowered and have an antiquated engineering design, but as long as parts are avail, or can be rebuilt it is not a bad option unless you are looking for high performance. Higher compression, better intake manifold and higher CFM carbs are there for a little more performance, and lower gearing is almost a must for those w 2.72. The only challenge seems to be the camshaft bearing from our builders like SC397 on the mothership
http://rebsamcandjeep.proboards.com/thr ... m-bearings

Yes I am in the slow lane when going over our 8000' mountain pass, a 4 speed auto would be nice, if I stay in the powerband I can always keep up or pass anybody until the 6000' level, and this is with a stock 360, stock intake and 2150, timing advanced as needed and intake manifold for the vacuum advance.

Otherwise some interesting swap infos

a 5.3
http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewtop ... 12&t=15854

6.0
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=186511

LS3 swap
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=173550
Last edited by letank on Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (229 Kmiles... the running test lab)
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derf
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Re: Engine Options

Post by derf »

will e wrote:I assume emissions is not a concern.
DFW (Dallas/Fort Worth) has emissions testing.
will e wrote:The 360 can be perked up a bit with a cam, new ignition and a 4bll carb and intake. This would be your least expensive route. Maybe get a dual exhaust too. Headers are an option but if you stick to the cam, carb, exhaust your modifications are limited and the problems resulting from modifications are limited too. Swapping a different engine and/or drive train means custom work and that almost always leads to little problems that need to be worked out.

A number of people have good luck with rebuilt engines. I don't know the engine builders down there any more (I moved 12 years ago). A Summit K8600 cam is a good overall driver cam that won't kill your emissions. And it's not expensive.

Honestly, rebuilding the stock carburetor will leave you with good driveability and usable power. Though if you're good with wiring and don't mind dropping some money, you could get the Holley Sniper 2300 throttle body fuel injection system. It will bolt on to your stock intake manifold and is pretty easy to set up once you get through the wiring. There are others that require a different intake manifold. But when you rebuild the engine, it wouldn't be extra work to install a new manifold for different fuel injection. Budget will drive that as much as your technical ability.

An ignition upgrade that looks stock but gives you good performance is the TFI upgrade: http://www.grimmjeeper.com/TruckNorris/tfi.html The best part is that it's cheap and uses off-the-shelf components.

The factory exhaust isn't half bad. And there are few options for major upgrades. Though you could go to an exhaust shop and they might be able to custom build something that isn't terribly expensive.

Of course, swapping in a Chevy is not a half bad idea but it's pretty involved. As long as you get it from a vehicle that is your model year or newer it will pass emissions. It would require a lot of customization and fabrication. And while you can do things to save money, it's still going to cost quite a bit.

will e
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Re: Engine Options

Post by will e »

In Arizona we have a 'visual' inspection for emissions after model year 1975. One item on their check list for my year Jeep is the A.I.R. system. So swapping something newer is not an option. You can get it all swapped and then go to the Government and get a waiver but it is not guaranteed that it will be granted. It's rather interesting that the law encourages you to keep an older engine. In my opinion, it should just be a tail pipe test. If it passes, who cares what's under the hood?
81 Waggy 'WILL E' Retired
82 Cherokee WT - SOA/SF/high steer/Alcan springs/agr box/Borgeson steering shaft/AMC 401/performer/holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS (2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave, Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37X12.5/Corbeau XRS Baja & 5 point retractable harness/Hella Aux lights/tuffy console/killer32 sliders/Evil Twin bumpers, rack and roll cage/WARN 8000/TT Fabworks steering brace/dual batts/custom TC skid plate/ARB fridge
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Matt24601
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Re: Engine Options

Post by Matt24601 »

I appreciate the ideas. A couple of considerations I didn't mention beforehand. I have already had the stock carburetor rebuilt and therefore have money in it, though it may be just as easy to sell it and put that money towards an upgrade. Also here in Texas emissions are not a concern on vehicles over 25 years old. Just a safety inspection.

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'83 Wagoneer / 360 V8 / DFW, TX / Stock...for now :fsj:
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tgreese
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Re: Engine Options

Post by tgreese »

Really? The carb rebuild will be a minor expense compared to a new engine. And if you can't rebuild a carburetor yourself, I suspect an engine swap will be a challenging endeavor. Paying someone to change to a different engine will cost a lot, regardless of the route you take. Almost certainly the least expensive approach will be to exchange your engine for a rebuilt one. If you pulled the engine yourself, you should be capable of replacing the old engine with a rebuilt one. You can get an engine that uses whatever hop-up parts you want, including a hotter cam and higher compression.
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will e
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Re: Engine Options

Post by will e »

The stock two barrel carb will be a limiting factor in performance. If you are not doing the swap yourself the cost of putting something different will be very high indeed.
81 Waggy 'WILL E' Retired
82 Cherokee WT - SOA/SF/high steer/Alcan springs/agr box/Borgeson steering shaft/AMC 401/performer/holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS (2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave, Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37X12.5/Corbeau XRS Baja & 5 point retractable harness/Hella Aux lights/tuffy console/killer32 sliders/Evil Twin bumpers, rack and roll cage/WARN 8000/TT Fabworks steering brace/dual batts/custom TC skid plate/ARB fridge

letank
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Re: Engine Options

Post by letank »

will e wrote:The stock two barrel carb will be a limiting factor in performance. If you are not doing the swap yourself the cost of putting something different will be very high indeed.
x2, the stock carb has a punched stamp on the driver's side, which represent the venturi size, that should say 1.21, in my case it was 1.08, which are respectively about 350 CFM and 287 for mine. The usual swap is for whatever brand (Holley or Edelbrock) are the 600 CFM, more air is more gas and mo power. As a note the 4 barrel 4300 was 440 CFM.

Pict of the 1.08

Image
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (229 Kmiles... the running test lab)

texas993
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Re: Engine Options

Post by texas993 »

Matt, I am in Dallas and am happy to advise. I had my 360 rebuilt recently and added a Holley Sniper EFI, 4 bbl intake and HEI ignition system. It has tons of power, but is thirsty on 87 gas. I pulled the motor, had it rebuilt at City Motor Supply, and re-installed it myself. I upgraded most components. But did not have any transmission issues.

I am happy to share my experiences, let you check out my FSJ, and lend a hand. This is the second GW that I have restored and have gotten to know them pretty well.

Email me at my user name at gmail.

1979bettywhite
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Re: Engine Options

Post by 1979bettywhite »

Following along as I am in the same ballpark. Really want to be able to road trip the Chief in the near future, but will low oil pressure (20-22) at highway speed, and virtually no power on the hills, I need to do something before we start taking it on longer trips. Around town I am getting roughly 8 mpg. But that is with a 4" lift, and the 33" mud terrains.

I am thinking I need a rebuild, and then do the same intake, cam, and four barrel carb. Maybe explore fuel injection as well to see if we can get the fuel economy (economy not the right word, lol) a little better.

rocklaurence
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Re: Engine Options

Post by rocklaurence »

Posible AMC V8 would be: 343CID pistons for a 10:1 compression, Aluminum heads [$2000], RPM intake manifold/Cam with EFI should put you around 400HP/400ftlbs for around $5000. However, the gas milage would still be in the Crapper... :D
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toothofwar
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Re: Engine Options

Post by toothofwar »

343 pistons in a 360? Please elaborate. This sounds interesting.

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rocklaurence
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Re: Engine Options

Post by rocklaurence »

toothofwar wrote:343 pistons in a 360? Please elaborate. This sounds interesting.

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Yep, there's several build threads on it already. The 343 is an earlier CID that has the same piston diameter and pin-to-top distance on the piston. They will plug-into a 360 and increase the compression ratio. I believe with the Later Smog heads it reaches close to 10:1. I mentioned the aluminum heads because it would be more tolerant to cheap gas with the high compression.
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