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Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:37 pm
by rainman
During my travels in Colorado (likely on engineer/mineral creek) this year I damaged my frame at the front cab body mount. Based on local interviews it was safe to drive home on...and I did. 1000 miles of constant vibration. The cracking got a little worse from the drive but nothing catastrophic.

On to the damage:

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Obviously I need to cut out the damaged section of frame and weld in a patch. Debating if I need to reinforce with a extra layer inside or outside.

I ordered a new body mount bracket from BJs but they’re working with a new supplier and it will be a few weeks before I get one. Is there any advantage to using oem style or should I just weld up some new ones? I fabricated a bracket to support the body that bolts in the front (I use the backs) crossmember holes and afterward was thinking I might as well just build my own as part of the repair.

BTW new body mounts all the way around are on the agenda

Pic of overbuilt temp bracket:

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Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:00 am
by rocklaurence
WOW! OK, dont make it any worse than it is. I dont think you need to do any more than repair the frame. First, remove the body mount brackets via the rivets. Second, is the tear also on the inside panel of the frame? If not, cut out the torn section going past the bad area by 2-4 inches on each side. Then build a patch to replace the effectet area. Lastly, if you think its needed, add an additional patch that extends past the repair seams. Note. after the repair is done-Id weld the Body Mount bracket to the frame instead of hasseling with bolts

Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:13 am
by Stuka
Looks like the damage is to the frame and not the mount itself. I see no reason you can't reuse that mount. Well, unless getting it off does a lot of damage to it, which is possible. But the frame should really have some support on the inside to fit it properly. A butt weld isn't going to hold.

I am going to guess this was caused when articulating the suspension, and the frame twisted, but the body did not want to. I am sure you have already checked your other mounts, but if not, do so :) These types of stress fractures can be hard to see until they get bad though.

Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:11 pm
by rainman
Only the outside of the frame is torn. I’m going to try to salvage the existing body mount.

I’m pondering how I want to reinforce the repair:

1. Plug weld a couple larger pieces to the patch and the existing frame
2. Plug weld 2 sections (top and bottom) of small angle iron to the patch and frame.
3. Weld a few verticals members (with relief cuts for drainage) to the inside of the other side of the rail and the patch.

I’m slightly concerned that I may make the repaired area to strong and encourage other areas to fail.

The mount on the other side looks fine. I was thinking about adding a bead or 2 across the top as insurance.

Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:09 pm
by j10jim
John, a little bondo and paint and it's good to go!! :) OK it does look worse but at least you got it home. As mentioned above, check all the other mounts, especially on top, may need a mirror to see.

Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:17 am
by candymancan
You should double fillet Lap weld new plates om.. Cut the cracked metal off get some 1/8th steel plate and overlap the plate on the frams by a few mm over TOP of the frame and hole you cut and weld both sides.. those are the strongest i know of. When i fixed all the sections of rusted out floors and frame sections on my wagoneer i didnt cut the patch to fit exactly i cut them to overlap the metal slightly and i welded both sides.. aka lap welds. Im betting it wont break again if you do that.

My frame is cracked by the shock mounts from rust making the metal thin.. I habe to remove the shock mount and engine mount.. cut both sides of the boxed frame off and weld in patchs.. And when i do that i plan to to do double fillter lap welds.

this picture letter C is a double fillet lap weld.. Unfortunetly it cracked where the frame is boxed in so welding inside might be tricky to impossible. So you might habe to jist do a single lap weld.. by cutting the crack out placing a patch over just like C but welding one side. It wont be quite as strong as double but to do double you gatta cut the other side off and then how will you weld that side on ?

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Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:50 pm
by SJTD
We wonders if your frame is tweaked causing that mount to be loaded more than normal.

Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:33 pm
by rainman
SJTD wrote:We wonders if your frame is tweaked causing that mount to be loaded more than normal.
I don’t know about the frame but that body bushing is the most compressed of the lot. Also, I’ve always had a lot of body lean to that side...even after relocating the fuel tank to the rear.

Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:43 am
by fulsizjeep
Dang. I haven't seen this one before. It is usually the spring mount right there that starts a crack. Which you should also look over real close.

Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:43 pm
by rainman
So the hits keep coming...

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I’m assuming this is the cause of my vibration.

At this point I am leaning towards doing a frame swap. I was never 100% happy with the Novak engine mounts I used. This will give me the opportunity to use the stock FSJ towers with the Ram/Dakota engine mounts (which I think is a much better setup) using a custom intermediate piece. Where the engine block failed was already repaired once (it was broken when I acquired it...I had it repaired.) I figure I can reinforce the front body mounts on the new frame.

Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:08 pm
by Stuka
Is that the steering box mount?

Thankfully rust free waggy frames are quite easy to find here in the West. Downside is they normally have a decent body on them. But maybe J&W will have one for an acceptable price?

Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:12 pm
by rainman
Stuka wrote:Is that the steering box mount
No...it’s the “ear” on my engine block for the motor mount. It’s already been repaired once. I need to find a different/better solution.

Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:43 pm
by rainman
Some closure for this thread...

I got everything welded up and reassembled. The repairs themselves didn’t take that long. I spent most of my time removing the body mounts and fabricating new inserts for the new bushings and replacements for the captive nuts. I think the pictures are mostly self-explanatory.

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Engine mount extension:

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Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:45 am
by Stuka
Glad you were able to get it fixed up!

Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:29 am
by Renodemona
Nice! Glad the repair wasn't something too terrible to get handled.

Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:40 am
by fulsizjeep
Lookin' good John!

Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:06 am
by Simba
That looks great John! glad you were able to repair it.

Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:12 am
by candymancan
did you paint the otherside with weldable primer befkre it was welded ? That way it doesnt just rust on the other side of that ?

Looks great bte.. thats exaclty what i woulds done if i couldnt double side weld it