Ouray carnage aka frame repair

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rainman
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Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Postby rainman » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:37 pm

During my travels in Colorado (likely on engineer/mineral creek) this year I damaged my frame at the front cab body mount. Based on local interviews it was safe to drive home on...and I did. 1000 miles of constant vibration. The cracking got a little worse from the drive but nothing catastrophic.

On to the damage:

Image

Image


Image

Obviously I need to cut out the damaged section of frame and weld in a patch. Debating if I need to reinforce with a extra layer inside or outside.

I ordered a new body mount bracket from BJs but they’re working with a new supplier and it will be a few weeks before I get one. Is there any advantage to using oem style or should I just weld up some new ones? I fabricated a bracket to support the body that bolts in the front (I use the backs) crossmember holes and afterward was thinking I might as well just build my own as part of the repair.

BTW new body mounts all the way around are on the agenda

Pic of overbuilt temp bracket:

Image
1987 Grand Wagoneer
5.2L/46RH/NP229/4"/33s/4.56/ARBs
Current FSJ status: Hurting

rocklaurence
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Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Postby rocklaurence » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:00 am

WOW! OK, dont make it any worse than it is. I dont think you need to do any more than repair the frame. First, remove the body mount brackets via the rivets. Second, is the tear also on the inside panel of the frame? If not, cut out the torn section going past the bad area by 2-4 inches on each side. Then build a patch to replace the effectet area. Lastly, if you think its needed, add an additional patch that extends past the repair seams. Note. after the repair is done-Id weld the Body Mount bracket to the frame instead of hasseling with bolts
Last edited by rocklaurence on Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Stuka
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Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Postby Stuka » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:13 am

Looks like the damage is to the frame and not the mount itself. I see no reason you can't reuse that mount. Well, unless getting it off does a lot of damage to it, which is possible. But the frame should really have some support on the inside to fit it properly. A butt weld isn't going to hold.

I am going to guess this was caused when articulating the suspension, and the frame twisted, but the body did not want to. I am sure you have already checked your other mounts, but if not, do so :) These types of stress fractures can be hard to see until they get bad though.
1981 J10 AMC 258 with HEI and Weber 32/36 DGEV Carb, T176, NP208, D44/M23 with 4.56 gears and Detroit Locker, 6" lift, 33x12.50 Cooper STT's, BJ's Offroad Rear Dozer Bumper.
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rainman
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Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Postby rainman » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:11 pm

Only the outside of the frame is torn. I’m going to try to salvage the existing body mount.

I’m pondering how I want to reinforce the repair:

1. Plug weld a couple larger pieces to the patch and the existing frame
2. Plug weld 2 sections (top and bottom) of small angle iron to the patch and frame.
3. Weld a few verticals members (with relief cuts for drainage) to the inside of the other side of the rail and the patch.

I’m slightly concerned that I may make the repaired area to strong and encourage other areas to fail.

The mount on the other side looks fine. I was thinking about adding a bead or 2 across the top as insurance.
1987 Grand Wagoneer
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Current FSJ status: Hurting

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j10jim
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Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Postby j10jim » Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:09 pm

John, a little bondo and paint and it's good to go!! :) OK it does look worse but at least you got it home. As mentioned above, check all the other mounts, especially on top, may need a mirror to see.
1980 J10/20
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candymancan
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Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Postby candymancan » Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:17 am

You should double fillet Lap weld new plates om.. Cut the cracked metal off get some 1/8th steel plate and overlap the plate on the frams by a few mm over TOP of the frame and hole you cut and weld both sides.. those are the strongest i know of. When i fixed all the sections of rusted out floors and frame sections on my wagoneer i didnt cut the patch to fit exactly i cut them to overlap the metal slightly and i welded both sides.. aka lap welds. Im betting it wont break again if you do that.

My frame is cracked by the shock mounts from rust making the metal thin.. I habe to remove the shock mount and engine mount.. cut both sides of the boxed frame off and weld in patchs.. And when i do that i plan to to do double fillter lap welds.

this picture letter C is a double fillet lap weld.. Unfortunetly it cracked where the frame is boxed in so welding inside might be tricky to impossible. So you might habe to jist do a single lap weld.. by cutting the crack out placing a patch over just like C but welding one side. It wont be quite as strong as double but to do double you gatta cut the other side off and then how will you weld that side on ?

Image
2013 SS camaro, cammed, and modded too much to say 500 RWHP/650 crank 30k
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9L Limited 191k
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SJTD
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Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Postby SJTD » Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:50 pm

We wonders if your frame is tweaked causing that mount to be loaded more than normal.
Sic friatur crustulum

'84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.

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rainman
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Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Postby rainman » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:33 pm

SJTD wrote:We wonders if your frame is tweaked causing that mount to be loaded more than normal.


I don’t know about the frame but that body bushing is the most compressed of the lot. Also, I’ve always had a lot of body lean to that side...even after relocating the fuel tank to the rear.
1987 Grand Wagoneer
5.2L/46RH/NP229/4"/33s/4.56/ARBs
Current FSJ status: Hurting

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fulsizjeep
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Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Postby fulsizjeep » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:43 am

Dang. I haven't seen this one before. It is usually the spring mount right there that starts a crack. Which you should also look over real close.
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Flint Boardman ~ http://jubileejeeps.org
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88 GW, 401/727/208, 5" lift, D44s/4.10s/locked up, 35s, a few Evil Twin mods, http://eviltwinfab.com and a few TT's Fabworks mods, http://www.ttsfabworks.com
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rainman
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Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Postby rainman » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:43 pm

So the hits keep coming...

Image

I’m assuming this is the cause of my vibration.

At this point I am leaning towards doing a frame swap. I was never 100% happy with the Novak engine mounts I used. This will give me the opportunity to use the stock FSJ towers with the Ram/Dakota engine mounts (which I think is a much better setup) using a custom intermediate piece. Where the engine block failed was already repaired once (it was broken when I acquired it...I had it repaired.) I figure I can reinforce the front body mounts on the new frame.
1987 Grand Wagoneer
5.2L/46RH/NP229/4"/33s/4.56/ARBs
Current FSJ status: Hurting

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Stuka
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Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Postby Stuka » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:08 pm

Is that the steering box mount?

Thankfully rust free waggy frames are quite easy to find here in the West. Downside is they normally have a decent body on them. But maybe J&W will have one for an acceptable price?
1981 J10 AMC 258 with HEI and Weber 32/36 DGEV Carb, T176, NP208, D44/M23 with 4.56 gears and Detroit Locker, 6" lift, 33x12.50 Cooper STT's, BJ's Offroad Rear Dozer Bumper.
2017 JKU Rubicon Lifted
Pevious Jeeps: 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ

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rainman
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Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Postby rainman » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:12 pm

Stuka wrote:Is that the steering box mount


No...it’s the “ear” on my engine block for the motor mount. It’s already been repaired once. I need to find a different/better solution.
1987 Grand Wagoneer
5.2L/46RH/NP229/4"/33s/4.56/ARBs
Current FSJ status: Hurting

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rainman
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Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Postby rainman » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:43 pm

Some closure for this thread...

I got everything welded up and reassembled. The repairs themselves didn’t take that long. I spent most of my time removing the body mounts and fabricating new inserts for the new bushings and replacements for the captive nuts. I think the pictures are mostly self-explanatory.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Engine mount extension:

Image
1987 Grand Wagoneer
5.2L/46RH/NP229/4"/33s/4.56/ARBs
Current FSJ status: Hurting

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Stuka
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Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Postby Stuka » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:45 am

Glad you were able to get it fixed up!
1981 J10 AMC 258 with HEI and Weber 32/36 DGEV Carb, T176, NP208, D44/M23 with 4.56 gears and Detroit Locker, 6" lift, 33x12.50 Cooper STT's, BJ's Offroad Rear Dozer Bumper.
2017 JKU Rubicon Lifted
Pevious Jeeps: 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ

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Renodemona
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Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Postby Renodemona » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:29 am

Nice! Glad the repair wasn't something too terrible to get handled.
"Wait, what's on fire!?"
--------------------------------------------------------------
1976 Cherokee w/t 'Susan' 401/TH400/QT(PT)
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3" Rough Country Springs, HEI Dizzy
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1972 Wagoneer 'Meredith' 360/TH400/D20
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fulsizjeep
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Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Postby fulsizjeep » Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:40 am

Lookin' good John!
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Flint Boardman ~ http://jubileejeeps.org
Embracing the Borg Warner QuadraTrac since 1980 http://jubileejeeps.org/quadratrac
88 GW, 401/727/208, 5" lift, D44s/4.10s/locked up, 35s, a few Evil Twin mods, http://eviltwinfab.com and a few TT's Fabworks mods, http://www.ttsfabworks.com
76 401 Wag, 77 401 Wag, 77 401 J20

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Simba
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Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Postby Simba » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:06 am

That looks great John! glad you were able to repair it.
1976 Wagoneer. Lincoln, NE

candymancan
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Re: Ouray carnage aka frame repair

Postby candymancan » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:12 am

did you paint the otherside with weldable primer befkre it was welded ? That way it doesnt just rust on the other side of that ?

Looks great bte.. thats exaclty what i woulds done if i couldnt double side weld it
2013 SS camaro, cammed, and modded too much to say 500 RWHP/650 crank 30k
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9L Limited 191k
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 I6 laredo 256k
1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 126k


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