California 360 Vacuum Routing

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Topic author
mx71
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California 360 Vacuum Routing

Post by mx71 »

Anyone have a 79ish California model with a 360 and factory 2bbl manifold? I'm beginning to think mine is originally a CA model wagoneer and am having trouble with the vacuum setup. I had the engine replaced with a remanufactured unit, and the shop didn't hook up the vacuum lines correctly. Given to me in a box of parts was a VSD valve, which only shows up on the California version along with a check valve in between the air pump diverter and spark CTO. Which direction does the check valve go? In the TSM diagram, it shows the VSD with some kind of grommet or check valve on one end. What do you guys have? Further, there isn't a spark CTO (capped off) so I've got one of those on order, and there isn't a PCV in the system, so I ordered one of those as well. There's also a threaded port just open sort of by where the air pump plugs in to that spot in the middle of the front of the manifold. Is that normal? The most confusing thing is that there's a 2 port CTO on the passenger side rear of the intake manifold where the heater hose connects, and the PCV area isn't a grommet, but a threaded hole with an elbow screwed into it going into the carb. Can I get some CA peeps to please send me some pictures of the whole intake manifold/carb vacuum setup? I think I have the canister and air pump figured out, but I'm really confused by the other stuff.

I know most of you rip out as many vacuum lines as possible, but I'm not hungry for power and trust the engineers that designed it in 78 or so.
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dodgerammit
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Location: Middle TN

Re: California 360 Vacuum Routing

Post by dodgerammit »

Actually, unless you are smog checked, it is better to ditch the cto switches altogether. They run much better this way.

Here is a good way to run the vacuum stuff

Image


Mine is even more simplified (no charcoal canister)

Image

This is the factory mess (again, unless you are smogged, there really is no reason to use the over complicated cto stuff as it is much better to run the dizzy off of ported all of the time)

http://www.autospost.com/cat/troubled-c ... uting.html
84 Grand Waggy-Radio Flyer (Garnet Red/3M Ebony Metallic woodgrain, with honey interior) AMC 360 :cry: 2004 4.8LS/Advance Adapter/727/242 D44/AMC20 Serehill tailgate and headlight harnesses :fsj: Ongoing thread-viewtopic.php?t=11897

92 Wrangler Islander 4.0/32RH/231 D30/D35 RHD
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dodgerammit
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Location: Middle TN

Re: California 360 Vacuum Routing

Post by dodgerammit »

Here is more about how it originally was SUPPOSED to work, why it really doesn't, and why simplifying is a good thing:

http://tc.wagoneer.org/2012/08/fsj-v8-v ... uting.html
84 Grand Waggy-Radio Flyer (Garnet Red/3M Ebony Metallic woodgrain, with honey interior) AMC 360 :cry: 2004 4.8LS/Advance Adapter/727/242 D44/AMC20 Serehill tailgate and headlight harnesses :fsj: Ongoing thread-viewtopic.php?t=11897

92 Wrangler Islander 4.0/32RH/231 D30/D35 RHD

Topic author
mx71
Posts: 246
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:20 pm

Re: California 360 Vacuum Routing

Post by mx71 »

I really don't mind using the vacuum stuff. I don't have to have it smogged in my state (Idaho), but we always talk about moving under certain conditions, so if I ever do move back to California, I'd like a shot at passing smog.
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tgreese
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Re: California 360 Vacuum Routing

Post by tgreese »

Are you still stuck? The '79 TSM has all this information. Look at the vacuum diagrams at the back, and read the sections about the specific systems in the manual. There is a chart which shows the systems that apply to each region and model/equipment. Read the chart and read the corresponding section about that device.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.

Topic author
mx71
Posts: 246
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:20 pm

Re: California 360 Vacuum Routing

Post by mx71 »

Yes, and I found it in the TSM, but it isn't clear what that thing hanging off the VSD is or which direction the check valve goes.
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tgreese
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Re: California 360 Vacuum Routing

Post by tgreese »

The check valves are colored light and dark. The vacuum diagram shows which direction.

Can't help more right now - work.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.

candymancan
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Re: California 360 Vacuum Routing

Post by candymancan »

Honestly getting a new catalytic convertor will pass you emissions wise even with all that stuff disconnected.. Ive seen ppl post with new modern cats all the emission stuff removed and pass emissions but i guess there is the visual inspection lol.

When i got ny new cat not too long ago i was told they are way more efficient then those old 30-40 year old cats from back in the day.

All my emission stuff is removed.. air hat is gone air pump.. injection tubes plugged.. hell my egr was broken day 1 i got the jeep so i just bypassed it.

I do have the charcoal canister still though. Ive been thinking of finding a shop who does tailpipe sniffer tests to see what sort of emissions im actually putting out
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9L Limited 219k
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 I6 laredo 430k
1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 155k
1976 Jeep J10.. 85k(repaired)

Topic author
mx71
Posts: 246
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:20 pm

Re: California 360 Vacuum Routing

Post by mx71 »

tgreese wrote:The check valves are colored light and dark. The vacuum diagram shows which direction.

Can't help more right now - work.
Not for a 79. It's a black and white drawing with a cone shape. The check valve is all white inside of it with a little bar.
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tgreese
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Re: California 360 Vacuum Routing

Post by tgreese »

mx71 wrote:
tgreese wrote:The check valves are colored light and dark. The vacuum diagram shows which direction.

Can't help more right now - work.
Not for a 79. It's a black and white drawing with a cone shape. The check valve is all white inside of it with a little bar.
Looks like the dark side is the large side. The white side and cone side points toward manifold vacuum.

I see the VSD in the '82 manual but not the '79. I would not add anything that is not specifically shown in the '79 TSM. You are being sufficiently noble following the '79 spec. Follow the '79 vacuum diagram.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.

Topic author
mx71
Posts: 246
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:20 pm

Re: California 360 Vacuum Routing

Post by mx71 »

See page V-21 in the 79 TSM.

http://oljeep.com/gw/79_tsm/79_Jeep_TSM.pdf
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tgreese
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Location: Medford MA USA

Re: California 360 Vacuum Routing

Post by tgreese »

Ah. I looked for a reference to that part in the '79 and '82-83 TSMs and did not find anything. Judging by its location it's a Vacuum <something - shutdown?> Delay. The only thing it can do is send manifold vacuum to the EGR valve. Usually ported vacuum is the right signal for the EGR valve, since it goes to zero when the throttle plate is closed and blocks the port. EGR open at idle will make a rough idle. I could speculate that it adds a little manifold vacuum to the signal when the throttle closes, to ease the transition from full vacuum to zero at idle.

All this vacuum stuff is a very makeshift way of getting the induction performance that is needed for low emissions. If you want, and have the means, conversion to the Howell EFI kit will keep you smog legal and remove a lot of these goofy vacuum-powered systems. https://howellefi.com/wp-content/upload ... update.pdf
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.
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tgreese
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Location: Medford MA USA

Re: California 360 Vacuum Routing

Post by tgreese »

Also, if you are worried about emissions, I don't beleive the CA stations will fail you if you are missing the VSD. Instead, they will look for major things like vapor recovery and air injection, and that everything looks original under the hood. They will check that you have a CA approved cat. I believe they also do a tailpipe check, but the visual will be cursory ... I think. Some of the CA members could better comment on this.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.

Topic author
mx71
Posts: 246
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:20 pm

Re: California 360 Vacuum Routing

Post by mx71 »

Got it. I don't even live in CA, but could possibly again in the future, however I'm from there. It's probably been ten years since I've had a smog done there. I guess I'll just set it up as a 49 state and keep the CA stuff just in case. Thanks again for your help!
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tgreese
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Re: California 360 Vacuum Routing

Post by tgreese »

NP! Golden State native, 2nd generation (my Mom was born in Modesto and lived her entire life in CA). Left in '92 for school and still here... CA has changed a lot.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.

Topic author
mx71
Posts: 246
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:20 pm

Re: California 360 Vacuum Routing

Post by mx71 »

That's what I hear. Boise has changed a lot just in the 6 years I've lived here.

letank
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Location: SF bay area

Re: California 360 Vacuum Routing

Post by letank »

mx71 wrote:Got it. I don't even live in CA, but could possibly again in the future, however I'm from there. It's probably been ten years since I've had a smog done there. I guess I'll just set it up as a 49 state and keep the CA stuff just in case. Thanks again for your help!
Not too sure what a VSD is? pict or pointer? I probably do not have one, in fact I do not have as many delay valve as specs on the valance sticker for the 85. I guess next time I pop the hood open -which rarely happened-, I can take snapshots of all the smog devices...

The diagram above is good, but it is confusing because the air filter can is lay out on the schematic of the intake manifold vacuum switches.

Also, the dual CTO hardware is getting worn out by rust, so be sure to check its integrity: no rust around the T fitting

Image

Image

and replacement

Image

in the end

Image
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (229 Kmiles... the running test lab)
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