fsj brakes

[Longjohn61]

Hi guys i have a brake question for my 1980 cherokee chief.
after doing my brakes i am still not able to lock my front brakes,i have replaced everything:new calipers brake-hoses new rotors
new brakelines all of them. new mc and booster.even proportional valve. and on the rear all new as well.

The only thing i can think is that my booster is to small (dual 7") this one https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/tff-2122nb-2
The old one was a single 10" booster not the original with some offset bracket.
i don't have the space for a bigger one cause my intake is in the way.
I have a 4.0 high output replaced by the po.
I have no air in my brake system the pedal is hard so i think that's good.
Any suggestions? or questions

/Greetings from Sweden Nils

[Longjohn61]

This is how it was before

Today

/Nils

[HeavyMetalThunder_81]

You might need to adjust the pedal rod. I think I did when I went from a single diaphragm to dual.

Also, please tell me that your brake lines are not made from copper tube...

[Stuka]

First, copper tubing is note rated for the pressure seen in a brake system. (Most 1/4" copper tubing is in the 800-900psi range, braking systems see up to and over 2000psi)

Second, yup, rod going into the booster is too short. Its adjustable to a point as I recall. Had to make a new one for an old XJ we had when I converted it from bendix to standard brakes.

[Longjohn61]

well its not pure copper its an alloy and its the most common here in Sweden
every shop sells them.And here in Sweden you have to let your car checked every year and the they check everything if you don't do that you won't be able to insure the car.So copper alloy i normal here.
i would love to have stainless but shipping cost are not cheap for a complete kit like for example the one bjs sells.
About the booster i came with a new push rod and i have adjusted it so that's not the problem.(picture)
i think the only option is to go hydroboost .
No copper alloy brake lines in the us? Just steel or stainless?

[Stuka]

Yeah, no copper here. Steel is way cheaper.

With the engine off, how hard is the brake pedal? Does it feel squishy at all? If so, you have air some place. This is after the vacuum boost is used up of course.

[candymancan]

Copper fsj radiator weighing in at 40 lbs or so you can get like 70$ for as scrap. A steel door weighing the same you can get only like 10$ at the most lol.

Anyway ive never seen copper brake lines before in the us its all steel..

[67GMC]

Steel lines are just cheap for the manufacturers. People keep vehicles longer now. He's saying it's a copper alloy in Sweden (not just copper). Copper-nickel alloy is better than plain steel lines. That's what a lot of people put in here in Canada when the steel lines rust off. More durable in salt spray conditions. Here's a web article:

http://www.copper.org/applications/auto ... brake.html

[440sixpack]

As far as your brakes go what pads did you put on ? there is a HUGE difference in pads. normally the cheap pads brake the best, the long life expensive ones are just that, long life, because they don't cause friction.

[67GMC]

If rod length is ok, did you check to see if you have enough vacuum or if there was a vacuum leak somewhere? Where did you get the proportioning valve?

[will e]

Steel lines are just cheap for the manufacturers. People keep vehicles longer now. He's saying it's a copper alloy in Sweden (not just copper). Copper-nickel alloy is better than plain steel lines. That's what a lot of people put in here in Canada when the steel lines rust off. More durable in salt spray conditions. Here's a web article:

http://www.copper.org/applications/auto ... brake.html

That's cool. You learn something new every day. That's what I love about these forums. I clicked on one a few years ago about 'how to drill a hole'. I learned the max RPM for a drill bit is related to it's size due to the heat created from larger drill bits. Interesting stuff.

[Longjohn61]

Yes its a copper-nickel alloy. the most common problem i just rusted brake lines. steel-lines are hard to find here.
No vacuum leaks checked all today. Pedal is hard and push rod i adjusted correctly.
https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/clp-pv-2 this is the prop. valve i bought disc/drums directly bolt on. Bought here in sweden but they got it from summit.

These are brake pads i have.


Maybe the booster is to small?
By the way this is how my old booster looked the po liked to weld i think.



Went for a test drive today and yes its better then before but i expected a better result.
Can the tires have to do something with it? I am currently running on winter tires they have a softer compound the summer tires.
so maybe to much friction??

/Nils

[Phils67]

No copper in the US? Ive been running NiCopp lines for half a decade, live in the salt belt, and they still look and perform like new. Never had an issue with annual inspection here in NY either. You guys really never heard of copper line here? Its a nickle copper iron alloy and you can buy it at basically any local parts store

[candymancan]

Never seen it in any auto parts store i have been in, here in Virginia all their brake lines are visible in the back like the hoses and stuff and they are all steel

[Phils67]

Gotta ask for it in a roll. Comes in 25, 50 ans 100 foot rolls

[tgreese]

My local Advance Auto Parts carries the Nicopp lines along with the steel lines. I use the Nicopp exclusively for brakes now, and I buy it by the 25' roll from eBay sellers. 3/16" size is about $1/ft, which is roughly twice what steel line costs. Also sold as "Cunifer" (Copper-Nickle-Iron alloy). Good stuff.

[az chip]

I used Nicopp line when I repaired mine as it was easier to double flare than steel line.

[Phils67]

My brakes, clutch and fuel lines are all NiCopp. Im running about 48psi of fuel pressure through it. That stuff is so easy to work with.

[ghcoe]

I had similar issues with my Jeep. Just would not lock up. Finally figured out that the rear brakes where not adjusted properly. They were so far out of adjustment that they would not self adjust, not to mention I had a frozen star wheel. I replaced both star wheels and snugged the adjustment up as tight as I could and still get the drum on. The shoes will wear fast till they seat to the drum so this helped in keeping the adjustment tight. I can easily lock the brakes up now. It was like night and day. If your adjusters are good you can try to get them to adjust out by backing up and jamming on the brakes hard a few times. You should feel the pedal move up each time you do this if they are out of adjustment. Just remember if the shoes are too far away from the drum they will not adjust out because they need the reverse braking action to actuate the adjusters. Lightly braking in reverse in normal use sometimes does not actuate the shoes enough to actuate the adjusters and with time you loose your braking ability. The brake fluid has to fill the rear brake slave cylinders to make up the distance of the shoe to the drum before it starts to push in the discs in the front which creates a squishy and/or long pedal travel feeling. Hope that makes sense.

Also, read up on the proportioning valve. It needs to be opened when bleeding and can cause issues too. Usually it will turn on the "brake" light in the dash if stuck open, but if your brake light is not attached it might not warn you.

[Stuka]

No copper in the US? Ive been running NiCopp lines for half a decade, live in the salt belt, and they still look and perform like new. Never had an issue with annual inspection here in NY either. You guys really never heard of copper line here? Its a nickle copper iron alloy and you can buy it at basically any local parts store

My guess is that its more popular in the states that salt their roads. Out west here I have never seen it. But it looks cool. The stuff I looked up made by AGS is good for 11,900psi, thats plenty for brakes.