Power windows weak

[Rinkle_Stinkle]

OK, so I have a theory but before I take off a panel and start testing I wanted to ask the experts.


I have bought all the parts to rebuild 3 of my power windows. I bought three regulators, new flex tracks, new channels for both sides.

I have replaced all but the inside channel as i'll need to removed that, grind the rivets away and then re-revit the new one back in. I didn't want to do that in the middle of winter as this is still my daily driver.

after replacing the regulator, flex track and using an ample amount of sil-glide and silicon spray I got it all back together but I find that the window still struggles. I mean it could very well be the old channel I haven't replaced but tbh I seriously doubt it.

should I be checking wiring at the door hinge? if so what should these regulators show on the multi-meter?

any thoughts on what could be the cause?

the track the flex follows is not rusted and it in great shape. I was shocked at how weak those motors are.

[Rinkle_Stinkle]

follow up for those that may find this in a later search. I was informed through facebook that for both the power windows and power locks that all voltage travels directly through the switch. Newer model vehicles use relays so the full power goes directly to the motor or actuator. Because of age the switched may wear out or drop voltage therefor giving you either weak window motors or lock actuators.

It was suggested that I add relays to the wiring to eliminate that possibility and to trace all wires looking for breaks.

that being said if anyone has done this before I could really use your input on where you put in the relays.

[dodgerammit]

Hang tight. Once I get the lock circuit built, I'll start in on a window circuit. Will be similar to the lock circuit, but would need 8 relays to do. 2 for each circuit (window). One for up and one for down. Otherwise, it would be the same principle.

[Rinkle_Stinkle]

Hang tight. Once I get the lock circuit built, I'll start in on a window circuit. Will be similar to the lock circuit, but would need 8 relays to do. 2 for each circuit (window). One for up and one for down. Otherwise, it would be the same principle.

sounds perfect! if you don't mind taking a physical pic of your set up as well that would be great! i'm a visual learner

[dodgerammit]

Good news for the relay idea. Full voltage works wonders!

I had the door panels off again today, tracing factory wiring for my schematics. I decided to test the passenger rear door's window motor.

Now, previously, the motor was slow going down. Did not want to fully go down, had to have help going back up, and was EXTREMELY slow on its way back up.

The factory design has full voltage and amperage (power) going through the switches.

Add to that the switchback design of the way the front switch feeds power through the rear switch for control of the window motor, and you have a recipe for "window no worky".

I unplugged the motor form the harness. Just like the tailgate window and the door locks, it is a reverse polarity design. Current flows one way, the window goes up, the other way makes it go down.

I ran 14 gauge wire directly from my battery and touched them to the contacts in the motor's plug. Zipped down, and zippity doo-dah'd back up.

No struggle! Just worked the way it should. So, relays WILL fix the system, and are high priority for my next mod!

Give me a couple of weeks, and I'll have a second write up, this time for the windows.

Cheers!

[candymancan]

Please do a write up with lots of pictures.. Im not very good at figuring out stuff by reading.. I need pics because im visual and id kill for a good write up on how to do relays for the window motors. I can solder, cut wires and fix basic wiring but im not too good at figuring out where to put relays and so forth.. The voltage going to the windows is low so is the voltage going to everything else inside.

Measure the power going to the overhead console and i measured 10v.. So instead of 12.6v at the battery there isa 2.6v loss at the console.. Same with the window door locks.

I managed to fix my door locks though by bending the round door lock springs into an oval shape witj needle nose pliers releasing all that tension those 2 coil springs have.. So there is enough tension for the locks to stay up.. but not so much to where the actuators getting BEEPY voltage cant push them up. I installed a 15$ wireless door lock kit into my existing wiring in my overhead console ( removing the factory one) and once i bent the lock springs boom.. i habe wireless locks and they all work great

thats why everyones locks dont move uo.. Low power to the doors and actuators... and high spring tension.

[dodgerammit]

Trust me. These little actuators will nearly yank the rod through the bottom of the door when locking, and throw it through the top when unlocking with proper current going to them. I'm working on some schematics now for the windows. My lock thread is here: http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewtop ... 11&t=14233

[candymancan]

My fix was quicker lol but yea Cant do thst to the window motors.. So ill be waiting for your guide on that.. Im bad at reading wiring diagrams so pics on what wires to ut and route is better for me

[dodgerammit]

Planning phase has started: http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewtop ... 11&t=14293

[babywag]

follow up for those that may find this in a later search. I was informed through facebook that for both the power windows and power locks that all voltage travels directly through the switch. Newer model vehicles use relays so the full power goes directly to the motor or actuator. Because of age the switched may wear out or drop voltage therefor giving you either weak window motors or lock actuators.

It was suggested that I add relays to the wiring to eliminate that possibility and to trace all wires looking for breaks.

that being said if anyone has done this before I could really use your input on where you put in the relays.

Sure a bunch of relays will fix it, but finding and addressing the voltage drop to the motors does as well. Measure the voltage @ motors while operating, it'll be low. I've seen various causes, but generally it'll be low before the master switch.
Before adding all those relays, why not try to fix the voltage drop? Or simply add a single relay to address the main feed voltage drop.

On my '90 the voltage drop was the ignition switch mounted on column, simply replacing that fixed all the windows & door locks.

[Rinkle_Stinkle]

follow up for those that may find this in a later search. I was informed through facebook that for both the power windows and power locks that all voltage travels directly through the switch. Newer model vehicles use relays so the full power goes directly to the motor or actuator. Because of age the switched may wear out or drop voltage therefor giving you either weak window motors or lock actuators.

It was suggested that I add relays to the wiring to eliminate that possibility and to trace all wires looking for breaks.

that being said if anyone has done this before I could really use your input on where you put in the relays.

Sure a bunch of relays will fix it, but finding and addressing the voltage drop to the motors does as well. Measure the voltage @ motors while operating, it'll be low. I've seen various causes, but generally it'll be low before the master switch.
Before adding all those relays, why not try to fix the voltage drop? Or simply add a single relay to address the main feed voltage drop.

On my '90 the voltage drop was the ignition switch mounted on column, simply replacing that fixed all the windows & door locks.

oh I 100% planned on researching each lead to determine the main cause or causes. This was just a suggestion from someone on facebook that surprised me because to be 100% honest I don't know a thing about electricity and all that jazz.

my theory is it deals with the master control switch on the driver side because if I pop the lock switch on the passenger side they react like a scared puppy but if I use the driver side that act like I feel getting out of bed on a Monday.

I haven't had time to test the window switches... one because of the weather I don't want a window stuck open and two its been busy gearing up for the engine swap i'm going to do.

[babywag]

Just clean switches properly w/ elec. cleaner.
Verify getting battery voltage(or close to it), and if not find & repair problem.
Absolutely no need for a zillion relays for these to work properly IMHO.

Locks are scary, expecting parts to go flying some day.
Windows work this well despite rock hard/broken and stiff/pinching door channels.
All it took was cleaning the switches and the connectors.
On my ‘90 the ignition switch was causing a big voltage drop, replacing it fixed them, didn’t even need clean anything.
It also has rock hard broken window channel deals.
Replacing those and they’d probably work crazy good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ8_W5_U674

[dodgerammit]

Yeah, you can do it either way.

I personally like relays since they completely isolate the switch from the amp load generated in the circuit.

For me, adding a total of 10 relays up under the dash is no more than what any typical modern vehicle has under the hood.
I am installing everything on a 7"x10" plate. You can actually do it in less space.

[candymancan]

I did the relay thing for one of the rear doors.. wow... its like a brand new window..

Thanks !!..

Babywag.. i habe poor voltage in the cabin.. im getting like 10-11v when i checked the wiring in my overhead console.

How would a ignition switch cause the voltage drop ? Just curious.. sorry im not good at tracking bad wiring.. I do wiring like in this guide and fix existing wiring. or follow certain diagrams.. but im still learning to trace bad wiring ?

Tired of the low voltage in the cabin..

[dodgerammit]

Amazing when something simply works as it should, isn't it?

Basically, the key switch controls part of the power going to the fuse box.

Most fuse panels have 3 power feeds.

Hot at all times-brake lights, marker lights, horn, power locks, etc.
Hot in run- windows, turn signals, radio, etc
Accessory on- Pretty much same as hot in run position.

The Run and Accy modes are controlled by the ignition switch. If there is poor connection there, you will have less voltage and or amperage going to fuse panel.

Old, or corroded connections, small gauge wiring, corroded wiring, poor grounds. They all play a part.

[candymancan]

well it cant be grounds all the grounds in the engine bay are cleaned or new i even added two more.. Not surr of any in cabin bolted to the body though...

Maybe ill look imto the ignition switch but i hear its a pain to take that column apart

[babywag]

There are many grounds inside, so could easily be grounds.
2 factors in chasing low voltage, or poor operation.
Measuring voltage and chasing the circuit backwards towards battery to find loss/drop.
And grounds, checking resistance from circuit to ground.
It should be very low like in the .5-1.5 ohms range. The lower the better.
If suspect or measure poor ground just add a new good one properly spliced to circuit. You can never have too many grounds.

[dodgerammit]

There are many grounds inside, so could easily be grounds.
2 factors in chasing low voltage, or poor operation.
Measuring voltage and chasing the circuit backwards towards battery to find loss/drop.
And grounds, checking resistance from circuit to ground.
It should be very low like in the .5-1.5 ohms range. The lower the better.
If suspect or measure poor ground just add a new good one properly spliced to circuit. You can never have too many grounds.

Yep. Time consuming and aggravating. Building a new harness/system is as well.

[babywag]

Posting this here...you mentioned in other thread that someone hacked up your door harness.
In pic you can see they all unplug and are easily removed, someone cutting wires is just a lazy hack or doesn't care to do it right.

I suggest removing it, repairing it, and go from there. Much easier to work on out of door, and not terribly difficult to repair.
Just need a soldering iron, some crimp connectors, and some shrink wrap.

[candymancan]

I never mentioned my door harness was hacked up ? mine is all fine all in one peice or do you mean someone else ?